View Poll Results: What will you do if u found that a very competent worker used fake degree to get into

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  • Fire him.

    9 11.39%
  • Ask him to resign

    20 25.32%
  • Continue hiring him as per normal.

    4 5.06%
  • Continue hiring him but revert his pay to non-degree pay-scale.

    14 17.72%
  • Penalised him (eg no bonus)

    10 12.66%
  • Charge him in court

    3 3.80%
  • Transfer him to HR dept to spot fake degree scroll of prospective employees.

    3 3.80%
  • Ask him to stay but he must get a real degree.

    15 18.99%
  • My value: As long as he is competent, fake or real degree doesnt matter.

    15 18.99%
  • My value: honesty is more impt than being competent.

    23 29.11%
  • Other reactions...

    5 6.33%
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Thread: What will you do if u found that a very competent worker used fake degree to get into

  1. #21

    Default Re: What will you do if u found that a very competent worker used fake degree to get

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    Why did the person, who obviously can do the job, need to lie? After living in Asia for a while, I have noticed, all too often, more weight are put on what degree/piece of paper you have than experiences/your real ability to do the job. I am having an on going fight with HR about of of my direct reports, whom I trained, brought up to speed and are doing a great job, and I am trying to promote them, but they do not have a university degree and have the wrong diploma.
    DP, i agree with u. same situation I'm in as well. reason being that it may be 'cheaper' to get a FT and train them.
    Your staff may be too expensive to maintain if u promote them. That could be how yr HR sees it.
    Personally, I feel that the FT thingy is getting outta control....it seems to be the easy way out for most MNCs these days.

    there's no guarantee that a piece of paper is a passport to one's honesty.
    It could be that the guys is 'forced to fake a degree' in oder to secure a job. There are many factors to take into consideration so as long as he is competent, he should be given another chance.
    If ex-cons deserve a chance, why not them?
    "ashes to ashes; funk to funky..we know major_tom's a junkie
    strung out on heaven's high....."

  2. #22

    Default Re: What will you do if u found that a very competent worker used fake degree to get

    Rather than use a knee jerk reaction. Find out why the guy fake the degree and also you got to hand it to him how he managed to learn everything on the job and perform better than those who are so called "trained" in school.

    Had a friend who shown me her resume. Her results were above average but her eca was fantasic! Head of this, secretary of that, orgainsing committee of something else. If you didnt know better, you would think she is damn solid. So I asked her.... hey I dont remember you joining any of this clubs. Her reply was "who will check? It looks better on the record mah"

    She joined a local big corporate quasid govt and last I heard rising fast up the ranks.

    Why? Cos what she lacks in results, she makes up for it in compentence

  3. #23
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    Default Re: What will you do if u found that a very competent worker used fake degree to get

    Quote Originally Posted by major_tom View Post
    DP, i agree with u. same situation I'm in as well. reason being that it may be 'cheaper' to get a FT and train them.
    Your staff may be too expensive to maintain if u promote them. That could be how yr HR sees it.
    Personally, I feel that the FT thingy is getting outta control....it seems to be the easy way out for most MNCs these days.

    there's no guarantee that a piece of paper is a passport to one's honesty.
    It could be that the guys is 'forced to fake a degree' in oder to secure a job. There are many factors to take into consideration so as long as he is competent, he should be given another chance.
    If ex-cons deserve a chance, why not them?
    Agreed with you
    除了爱, 我一无所有

  4. #24

    Default Re: What will you do if u found that a very competent worker used fake degree to get

    Quote Originally Posted by major_tom View Post
    If ex-cons deserve a chance, why not them?
    Following this train of thought, I'm inclined to agree. A repentant person deserves another chance.

    But following many comments posted, it seems the general consensus for agreeing to giving a chance not because of repentance, but pragmatism. It's almost like, it's ok, because "people are forced to because of reality" It's almost like, it's ok to be dishonest, because it's what it takes to move up in today's society, and it's not my fault that the society is this way.

    I guess I'm becoming an old foggy before my days. Said my peace.

    All the best, Singapore.

  5. #25

    Default Re: What will you do if u found that a very competent worker used fake degree to get

    Quote Originally Posted by shinken View Post
    Following this train of thought, I'm inclined to agree. A repentant person deserves another chance.

    But following many comments posted, it seems the general consensus for agreeing to giving a chance not because of repentance, but pragmatism. It's almost like, it's ok, because "people are forced to because of reality" It's almost like, it's ok to be dishonest, because it's what it takes to move up in today's society, and it's not my fault that the society is this way.

    I guess I'm becoming an old foggy before my days. Said my peace.

    All the best, Singapore.

    just like to add that it's NOT ok to be dishonest but that guy needs to be counselled and his actions analyzed before deciding to show him the door.
    As long as he is repentant, he should be given a 2nd chance. Maybe to put him on extended probation (if he's still new), salary deduction for the next 6 mths, withhold promotion for 1 yr etc.....these are some 'penalties' that the HR can consider. Just need to be creative that's all.
    Unfortunately, creativity is what is lacking in Singapore and those in authority usually go by the book.......unless you are an elite then it will be easier on you.

    It's very hard to find competent staff these days and we must treasure what we have.
    There are some competent FTs and there are some who looks good on paper................
    Last edited by major_tom; 23rd January 2007 at 11:49 AM.
    "ashes to ashes; funk to funky..we know major_tom's a junkie
    strung out on heaven's high....."

  6. #26

    Default Re: What will you do if u found that a very competent worker used fake degree to get

    Quote Originally Posted by major_tom View Post
    ....
    If ex-cons deserve a chance, why not them?
    From a manager's stand point, I cannot have an employee who are basically dishonest. Faking a degree to get a job, to me, is a BIG lie. I do not have the time to double check/question everything an employee does, I need to be able to depend and trust. Now, how?

    I f the right papers were really needed, I won't be here. If it were up to the local management to hire me, I won't be here. I was sent by corporate to do a job. But still, while my area within the company has best practices within the company, and better matrixes compare to Europe and the Americas, I still occasionally get comments from HR that I should go take this class or that class. My usual response is that if HR wants me to go teach those classes, they chould at least discuss with me first.

    Oh well, the only thing I can do, is to be me and live with my decision, meaning, I will be fighting with HR as long as I stay in Asia ... cie la vie
    Last edited by Deadpoet; 23rd January 2007 at 11:50 AM.
    deadpoet
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  7. #27

    Default Re: What will you do if u found that a very competent worker used fake degree to get

    Quote Originally Posted by major_tom View Post
    just like to add that it's NOT ok to be dishonest but that guy needs to be counselled and his actions analyzed before deciding to show him the door.
    As long as he is repentant, he should be given a 2nd chance. Maybe to put him on extended probation (if he's still new), salary deduction for the next 6 mths, withhold promotion for 1 yr etc.....these are some 'penalties' that the HR can consider. Just need to be creative that's all.
    Unfortunately, creativity is what is lacking in Singapore and those in authority usually go by the book.......unless you are an elite then it will be easier on you.

    It's very hard to find competent staff these days and we must treasure what we have.
    There are some competent FTs and there are some who looks good on paper................
    Don't get me wrong, I was convinced by your standpoint the moment you made it.

    Just disappointed about certain other justifications that had been made so far, that's all.

  8. #28

    Default Re: What will you do if u found that a very competent worker used fake degree to get

    Quote Originally Posted by shinken View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I was convinced by your standpoint the moment you made it.

    Just disappointed about certain other justifications that had been made so far, that's all.

    no la....not directed at you or anyone here. I quoted yr response to add continuity, that's all..........
    "ashes to ashes; funk to funky..we know major_tom's a junkie
    strung out on heaven's high....."

  9. #29

    Default Re: What will you do if u found that a very competent worker used fake degree to get

    everyone deserve to have an opportunity..

    I will talk to him, trying to make him talk and share why he is doing so, afterthat i will need him to admit and apologise to company as official notice.

    But of course, something has to be done so it is fair to everyone employee..
    few options:

    1. if possible, and hopefully he start to study for a degree if it is needed.
    2. if a degree isn't needed for that certain kind of job, and will talk to management to rethink the employment policy.. put experience as one major consideration too since it is proved that he do a good job even without that paper. So it will change the rules and fair to everyone else.
    3. May consider to have certain kind of demotion, but will be treated fair judgement in future, as he is consistent to perform well (after apologies and admit his fault to company and co-employee), he will still get fair judgement and get promoted.

    The most difficulty thing is usually the person who can't accept his own wrongdoing..
    if he had accepted and changed, he will be appreciated and work hard and do not more bad things.

    Something need to do, to consult co-employee, not to shame a person who has done wrong things and had admit and changed... of course, shaming and gossips will circulate in office..but those people who gossip a lot, maybe is the real person who is evil and person that you have to ask to leave..

  10. #30
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    Default Re: What will you do if u found that a very competent worker used fake degree to get

    during the job crisis, my friend who has a diploma and degree couldn't get a job with the degree.. He 'cheated' and used the diploma as his max qualifications and landed a job quickly.

    So how? after that you discover already will do the same in the poll?
    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” - Adolf Hitler

  11. #31

    Default Re: What will you do if u found that a very competent worker used fake degree to get

    Quote Originally Posted by yanyewkay View Post
    during the job crisis, my friend who has a diploma and degree couldn't get a job with the degree.. He 'cheated' and used the diploma as his max qualifications and landed a job quickly.

    So how? after that you discover already will do the same in the poll?
    ommision I can deal with.
    deadpoet
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  12. #32
    Senior Member jOhO's Avatar
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    Default Re: What will you do if u found that a very competent worker used fake degree to get

    Quote Originally Posted by yanyewkay View Post
    during the job crisis, my friend who has a diploma and degree couldn't get a job with the degree.. He 'cheated' and used the diploma as his max qualifications and landed a job quickly.

    So how? after that you discover already will do the same in the poll?
    yeah it happened alot during that time. ALL my friends who graduated from the same uni i did, and had diplomas already, omitted their degree in their applications. tough world out there.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: What will you do if u found that a very competent worker used fake degree to get

    the saying goes... u can do countless good deeds but a single mistake is good enuff to bring all to nothing.

  14. #34

    Default Re: What will you do if u found that a very competent worker used fake degree to get

    Question : How honest is honest? I don't see much of that around. Snaking, making false claims, etc. Oh come on... which planet were you living on in the last few decades? I have spotted so many of these with my employees but let them go with warning but I know these things exist.

    Bottom line is, if this person is making money for me, I will let him continue.

    True honestly? Hire robots and program them yourself. Humans have brains, there is greed. If what they are making for the company surpasses that little greed, that little lie, that little untruthfulness, well... he is making money and he is a good employee.

    If I wanted honest, righteous people. I will open a temple.

    Even religious people cheat on their organisations... oh please... I don't even know what is the purpose of this thread.

    I am wondering if the thread starter is a businessman or merely trying to dig out dirt on someone to get him fired? I am wondering.

  15. #35
    Senior Member redstone's Avatar
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    Default Re: What will you do if u found that a very competent worker used fake degree to get

    Quote Originally Posted by Ola View Post
    In Singapore, without the paper, the person will not even get a chance for interview much less to prove/show that he is a competent worker.
    Very sad but very true.

    And ironically MOE been promoting talents and passion and external achievements, but even govt organisations don't recognise talents (non paper qualification achivements) when it comes to hiring. Paper qualifications come first.

    Imagine hiring a Doctor for your CEO, but he has no passion for your company's industry. And what happens? Company goes downhill.

  16. #36

    Default Re: What will you do if u found that a very competent worker used fake degree to get

    Quote Originally Posted by microcosm View Post
    Question : How honest is honest? I don't see much of that around. Snaking, making false claims, etc. Oh come on... which planet were you living on in the last few decades? I have spotted so many of these with my employees but let them go with warning but I know these things exist.

    Bottom line is, if this person is making money for me, I will let him continue.

    True honestly? Hire robots and program them yourself. Humans have brains, there is greed. If what they are making for the company surpasses that little greed, that little lie, that little untruthfulness, well... he is making money and he is a good employee.

    If I wanted honest, righteous people. I will open a temple.

    Even religious people cheat on their organisations... oh please... I don't even know what is the purpose of this thread.

    I am wondering if the thread starter is a businessman or merely trying to dig out dirt on someone to get him fired? I am wondering.
    No need to be so dramatic bro. 'Honesty' here is not so grey. Got hypothetical and specific example here: we're dealing with faking a degree. No need to go all the way to build temple

  17. #37
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    Default Re: What will you do if u found that a very competent worker used fake degree to get

    its like buying branded goods disregarding quality.

  18. #38
    Senior Member jOhO's Avatar
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    Default Re: What will you do if u found that a very competent worker used fake degree to get

    Quote Originally Posted by microcosm View Post
    Question : How honest is honest? I don't see much of that around. Snaking, making false claims, etc. Oh come on... which planet were you living on in the last few decades? I have spotted so many of these with my employees but let them go with warning but I know these things exist.

    Bottom line is, if this person is making money for me, I will let him continue.

    True honestly? Hire robots and program them yourself. Humans have brains, there is greed. If what they are making for the company surpasses that little greed, that little lie, that little untruthfulness, well... he is making money and he is a good employee.

    If I wanted honest, righteous people. I will open a temple.

    Even religious people cheat on their organisations... oh please... I don't even know what is the purpose of this thread.

    I am wondering if the thread starter is a businessman or merely trying to dig out dirt on someone to get him fired? I am wondering.
    ehheh relac leh...

    so.. u employing still?


  19. #39

    Default Re: What will you do if u found that a very competent worker used fake degree to get

    Quote Originally Posted by Jia Wang View Post
    There's such a thing called INTEGRITY... TT Durai is very competent too
    That's an understatement. He is more than competent; the results defies all what normal SG people can achieve.

    BUT, he did it dishonestly and with questionable methods. If another person did what he did, they MIGHT be able to achieve similar if not better results, and still it does not make it RIGHT.
    CS says, "We can't help you ignore yourself."

  20. #40

    Default Re: What will you do if u found that a very competent worker used fake degree to get

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_Yeo View Post
    What will you do if u found that a very competent worker used fake degree to get into your company?
    Is honesty is more impt than being competent?

    As long as he is competent, fake or real degree doesn't matter?

    Be fair to other employees?

    Poll coming!
    Did the culprit come forward himself, or was it discovered?

    If he came forward himself, he is still honest, punish him and still can consider keeping.
    If discovered, and he still deny, fire.
    CS says, "We can't help you ignore yourself."

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