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Thread: Employ Singaporeans for what?

  1. #101

    Default Re: Employ Singaporeans for what?

    Quote Originally Posted by wong_se View Post
    Australia ??
    Not really. All immigrants require to meet 110 pts (2 years ago) to qualify for PRship.
    Still need approval from IEAust (for engineers) or some accredition board. Thereafter still subject to a few other rounds of approval including medical and legal checks before IMMIAust decides.

    Thereafter you have to stay 2 years to qualify for the next 5 years of PRship.

  2. #102
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    Default Re: Employ Singaporeans for what?

    Quote Originally Posted by wong_se View Post
    stay at harbour front, go to loyang to work is considered long distance to travel to work...??

    what about those who stay in JB, every day wake up 6am (some even 530am) and travel all the way to SG. When they reach home..it is for sure after 8pm. Never have a chance to have dinner together with their families on time....


    There are lots of factory, especially those in Tuas. You will find out that 50% of the factories workers are non Singaporean. Why..?

    Travel all the way to Tuas.
    Work 12hours shift day/night.
    Shift on the weekend.
    Average monthly paid $1050.

    It is a fact that lots of Singaporean do not want this kinda of job.

    Short of labour..then how..? Either the factory move out from Singapore, or to employ non Singaporen.

    Thus..there are thousands from JB, and mainland China who is more than willing to take these vacancies.

    And some Singaporean who are looking for a job...keep complaining that foreigner had taken away all the job opportunities.


    Overall singaporean is not hungry enough.

    Singaporean will go hungry if all are being offered such low paid jobs given the increasing cost of living.

    You cant expect a 1st class honour grad to go apply for operator job right? I guess the topic is concerning the factors that are causing company to prefer foreigners over Singaporeans as most of us are feeling the heat.

    TS is not just refering to lower income groups, but the job stability of middle income grps that is being threatened, who are quick becoming the new poor.

    Especially in the IT sector, locals who are highly skilled in IT are facing fierce competition from foreigners (who comes in alot cheaper). There are idiot companies which main concerns are labour costs rather than quality and level of expertise. So much so that certain kind of jobs are being lost to foreigners since there is no benefit (only disadvantage) for company to employ Singaporeans

    Just a thought to add to ur statement:
    It's a known fact that alot of company are shifting their manufacturing operations to china and IT stuff to india because of lower labour costs. Frankly speaking, this is just MNC exploiting the country's cheap labour forces. In may create jobs for its people but the technology used and involved will always be inferior to its parent company. MNC do not transfer their technology and knowledge to another foreign place to prevent breeding competition. What they need is just cheap labour and cheap running costs. In the long run, the country will suffer as technology and knowledge is not being transferred to the country.

    Eventually low tech manufacturing plants will shift out of Spore. I believe its also not Spore direction to continue in low skill manufacturing production and stuff..
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  3. #103
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    Default Re: Employ Singaporeans for what?

    Quote Originally Posted by wong_se View Post
    it is the first time in my life I heard that government are giving free money to the voters per election.
    yet..lots of singaporean complaint that the $ is too little.

    wa liao...suddenly someone give u free $ also want to complain..????
    I am sorie.. What are u implying here ?

    I thought the money is for Sporean to cope with the rasing cost of living or other stuff ? ( I

    forgot.. I got a really bad memory, all singaporeans got terrible memory, esp aft 4 years )

    That's why ppl are complaining not enuff.
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    Default Re: Employ Singaporeans for what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canonised View Post
    This is a warning to all the workers and governments ... that BIG businesses have no , no need to worry too much for them... they will go where it is most competitive.
    If big business got den the company sure close down in 3 days.

    Lets face it, humans once get their stomachs full, get contented and exploit situation to their best ability. As long as there are humans, there can be no utopia on Earth.

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    Default Re: Employ Singaporeans for what?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnlim View Post
    Which countries in the vicinity that accept singaporeans as PR?
    There are plenty. As long as u show that u make contributions to the economy of the country. Australia & NZ I do know accepts those in the medical profession with open arms.

  6. #106

    Default Re: Employ Singaporeans for what?

    my previous company R&D: 40 foreigner, 8 singaporean,
    current company R&D: 40 foreigner, 5 singaporean.

    earlier, there was a rebutt from our manpower minister regarding an NUS lecturer research. didn't out manpower minister know the facts?

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    Default Re: Employ Singaporeans for what?

    Quote Originally Posted by centuryegg View Post
    Haha u speak so much like our elites, are you one of them?
    There's so much abt such words I see from forums all that I'd visited.

    So, what's exactly, "speaking like a normal Singaporean?" then?

    1) One who speaks anything running in contrary to what the politicians say?
    2) One who speaks anything that's anti-establishment?
    3) One who speaks what others want to hear and not what others don't want to hear?
    4) One who derides his own nationality instead of defending it and actually doing something abt it?

    I wonder... I wonder...

  8. #108
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    Default Re: Employ Singaporeans for what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Static View Post
    You cant expect a 1st class honour grad to go apply for operator job right?
    This probably had been brought up a lot of times and I wonder what kind of jobs shld a 1st class Honours Grad get then?

    BTW, I may be a little lost on the education scene since I'd left formal state education 10yrs ago. How many 1st class Hons Grad are NUS, NTU & SMU churning out each year?

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    Default Re: Employ Singaporeans for what?

    Just wanted to point out that for a lot of Singaporeans, your parents or your grandparents were "foreign talents" once too. They came here (along with others) from other countries for various reasons, which may include to earn a living or for better prospects. Some of them returned to their countries or moved onto others, while some ended up staying here and raising families here. The Singapore of today would not be what it is (and many of you would not be who you are) if these "foreign talents" had not come or were not allowed to come.

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    Default Re: Employ Singaporeans for what?

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn View Post
    This probably had been brought up a lot of times and I wonder what kind of jobs shld a 1st class Honours Grad get then?

    BTW, I may be a little lost on the education scene since I'd left formal state education 10yrs ago. How many 1st class Hons Grad are NUS, NTU & SMU churning out each year?
    Dunno Maybe we should close down one of them since there is an over supply of grads and the market does not need workers to be so qualified.
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    Default Re: Employ Singaporeans for what?

    Quote Originally Posted by reachme2003 View Post
    if it is really too little, why do 66.6% of voters accept the $ by voting in ***. they should reject it by voting non-***. then, five years later, the amount may be increased.
    66% of the contested area.. my place not contested.. any many who voted felt threaten by hte rumours that they will be 'marked' if they voted otherwise. It is easy to influence the aunties and uncles by pure hearsay and rumours. They practice "better safe than sorry" on surface say "I wun vote for them" but on the day, their Name and NRIC read out loudly.. by the time they walk to the booth.. inside thinking "liewz.. name and IC read so loud sure must be mark me liao.. better dun play play"
    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” - Adolf Hitler

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    Default Re: Employ Singaporeans for what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Static View Post
    Dunno Maybe we should close down one of them since there is an over supply of grads and the market does not need workers to be so qualified.
    no need.. we are raising the bar and rising like japan where everyone is a uni grad. anything below will be penalised by the society. In fact should open a few more universities to reach this stage faster.
    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” - Adolf Hitler

  13. #113

    Default Re: Employ Singaporeans for what?

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn View Post
    There's so much abt such words I see from forums all that I'd visited.

    So, what's exactly, "speaking like a normal Singaporean?" then?

    1) One who speaks anything running in contrary to what the politicians say?
    2) One who speaks anything that's anti-establishment?
    3) One who speaks what others want to hear and not what others don't want to hear?
    4) One who derides his own nationality instead of defending it and actually doing something abt it?

    I wonder... I wonder...
    Oh of course I forgot that as a Loyal Singaporean, we should just shut our gap and not criticise our own country. We must follow rules and not stray from the line. Must be loyal to party and know that all Opposition parties are actually going to ruin the nation.....

    And even though we feel that things are wrong, we must keep quiet. after all our leaders know best.

  14. #114

    Default Re: Employ Singaporeans for what?

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn View Post
    There's so much abt such words I see from forums all that I'd visited.

    So, what's exactly, "speaking like a normal Singaporean?" then?

    1) One who speaks anything running in contrary to what the politicians say?
    2) One who speaks anything that's anti-establishment?
    3) One who speaks what others want to hear and not what others don't want to hear?
    4) One who derides his own nationality instead of defending it and actually doing something abt it?

    I wonder... I wonder...
    I know you're trying to be 'positive' here, but those remarks are just as sweeping statements as those who that are 'anti-establishment'. And sweeping statements hardly, if ever, do any real good.

    At least in this thread, I saw genuine concerns voiced (though not in the most diplomatic fashion, as usual).

    It is a fact that there are segments of citizens who feel marginalised. It is also a fact that some segments are affected more than others. Most forumers are trying to apply their own experience to respond to posts, forgetting that often, we are arguing about different things.

    Having foreign workers to perform jobs that are unwilling to be taken up by locals is a different issue altogether from having foreign 'talent' being hired to perform functions which locals have the capability to perform. Those who are not in this segment of the population won't feel the pinch and won't be able to empathise.

    On a similar note, those who are quick to condemn locals for not being able to accept low paying jobs with harsh working conditions also missed the point, as they cannot empathise with the expectations (which are sometimes justifiable) of the average Singaporean who had undergone a very (and I stress on 'very') lengthy and rigourous education. 16-20 years of education is a very long time. And at the end of this education, with the specialisation gain, it is only natural to have expectations.

    To those who are well-secured in your comfortable paying job, try to compare apple to apple as you are being the armchair critic. The very fact that we are facing the problem of outflow of talents is very telling. These Singaporeans are getting more appreciation elsewhere. And it is ludicurous that these Singaporeans are more 'competitive' as an employee elsewhere than locally, when we are facing a problem of shortage of skilled labour. It is a matter of time, with more liberal flow of communication and globalisation, that the more average Singaporeans will be exposed to more options, knowing that they can be infused into similar rungs of the society elsewhere, and this outflow will increase.

    I personally doubt the solution to this outflow of talent lies in getting replacement from elsewhere, and that locals, in this case, are at fault for being too 'whiny'. Afterall, why did this outflow start in the first place?

    I plea - apples to apples.

  15. #115

    Default Re: Employ Singaporeans for what?

    Quote Originally Posted by wong_se View Post
    opss.s.u are right. May be come back as expat..??

    I have contributed my opinion, and give my view. Enough said . Hope we do all learn something by exchanging ideas to broaden our view and not make heated arguement here.


    btw..some interesting article to read

    ( http://www.zaobao.com/sp/sp070118_519.html )
    From the Chinese article:

    如果我们没有缓冲配套,没有偏向照顾低收入阶层的政策,我想会有更多人要来这里发展(Abu Dhabi)。但是,他们的生活太舒适了,政府对国人太好了,使新加坡人被宠坏了。我们虽宠坏了新加坡人, 但那也是我们的责任。

    translated as:

    "If we didn't provide the various financial schemes, didn't adopt the policy of providing the various aids to the lower-income group, then I think there will be more people who are willing to come here to work(refering to Abu Dhabi). But they are living a comfortable life, the government treats them extremely well, as a result, Singaporeans are spoiled. Although we have spoiled them by bestowing too much favor on them, but that is our obligation."

    What kind of help did the government give to the lower-income group to the extent that they feel so comfortable at home and refuse to seek jobs overseas in Abu Dhabi?

    In fact, such Middle East countries do not need these people, as stated in the article, pls read carefully. They only need managers from Singapore companies to run their projects.

    In this Chinese articles, it clearly states that there is a lack of managerial staffs from Singapore, not lower-income workers. Middle East countries have access to plentiful of such workers from India, they are even cheaper than anywhere else in the world. These workers' salaries are lower than Malaysians working in their own country; In fact, the Middle East pay them so little that it has made to the news as a case of exploitation of foreign workers recently.

    Now, the problem is: how many managers can we provide for our Middle East friends?

    Not all Singaporeans are needed for overseas jobs. Mr Goh shouldn't have cited the lower-income group in such a context. Where is the relevance?
    Last edited by johnlim; 18th January 2007 at 04:22 PM.

  16. #116

    Default Re: Employ Singaporeans for what?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnlim View Post
    Where is the relevance?
    Exactly. This is what I mean by apples to apples.

    If we look at the lower-income rung, can they really fight with the foreign workers in terms of accepting a competitive wage? Apple to apple. Can I, if I'm willing, able to surivive in Singapore as a road sweeper with the wage that's acceptable to a Bangladeshi worker? Am I being whiny by not willing to work as a road sweeper for the same pay to a Bangladeshi worker? Think of his expenditure versus mine. Take families into account. Take the commitment of a long term citizenry into account.

    Apples to apples.
    Last edited by shinken; 18th January 2007 at 04:11 PM.

  17. #117
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    Default Re: Employ Singaporeans for what?

    Quote Originally Posted by shinken View Post
    Exactly. This is what I mean by apples to apples.

    If we look at the lower-income rung, can they really fight with the foreign workers in terms of accepting a competitive wage? Apple to apple. Can I, if I'm willing, able to surivive in Singapore as a road sweeper with the wage that's acceptable to a Bangladeshi worker?

    Apples to apples.
    I would like to quote Hoky.. you can survive if you follwed Hoky's guidelines
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoky View Post
    So Singaporeans, to stay competitive (unless you working for the garmen), here's a checklist:

    1. Severe all ties with your family.
    2. Sell all your property, don't bother buying also. Just rent / camp near your workplace.
    3. Go chao keng and get PES E status, until SAF kick you out.
    4. Best resort, drop your citizenship, get a foreign passport and fake yourself as a foreigner back in Singapore.
    imagine if you went for a 2 weeks high key.. nobody to sweep that stretch of road how?
    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” - Adolf Hitler

  18. #118

    Default Re: Employ Singaporeans for what?

    I'm a PR here. I do understand all your sentiments, and you're all right. As a citizen of your country you should have at least an advantage over foreigners even though they're helping the progress of the economy.

    Just based on my observation, may be one reason why do companies here hire more foreigners than locals its because most locals tend to job hop from one company to another. I've heard a lot of cases wherein if they don't just feel the job based on their experience on their first day in work, they would just immediately resign and look for a new one. Well this is just my observation.

  19. #119

    Default Re: Employ Singaporeans for what?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnlim View Post
    Exactly, Singapore is killing its own people. You think those China PRs want to become Singaporeans? This is a delusion of the government. Who want to stay in a little red dot with all the uncertainties in its future?

    All are here mainly for the cash. Nothing else.
    you too mah, not happy because of not getting cash other got. Nothing else =)

  20. #120

    Default Re: Employ Singaporeans for what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoky View Post
    1)
    2) Thats what I did, working in the US for a period of time previously. Unfortunately, not everything is smooth. And employer's acceptance of FT is not so popular.
    sounds to me that the problem is your inability in competing healthily. You failed in overseas, and become a loser in your own country.

    You might consider to buy a big mirror and ask the people you see in the mirror, "AM I REALLY CAPABLE OF WORKING???"

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