Who's rights will it be?

[damienster]

i ve taken a spa ad for a mediacorp actress. Intend to put it in my website to build up my portfolio but called up the ad agency and the agency said "play safe davice not too". The agency say "might" need to pay mediacorp for ad fee if i want to put it in my website.

What abt those models we shoot at motor shows and we put it in our website? Did most of you ask to modeling agency b4 putting it up on ur web? Guess not right??!!

Is it cos she is a mediacorp actress that's why she has high marketing value? But i was paid by the spa coy for shooting the ad for them. The spa ad paid the actress to model for them.

So at the end of the day...can i put those pics on the web?

[bernardy4416]

I'm not an expert on this, but surely there was some sort of contract between the ad agency and the actress with regards to the shoot.

What does it say (if such a contract exists)?



Bernard

[dreamerz]

ask the spy coy directly if u could use it or nt...read the agreement sign btw the parties...if no clause is stated regarding copyrite...the copyrite in SG usually goes to the paying party...which is the spy coy...if the copyrite is urs...u can put it up as u like....

[singscott]

Originally Posted by damienster i ve taken a spa ad for a mediacorp actress. Intend to put it in my website to build up my portfolio but called up the ad agency and the agency said "play safe davice not too". The agency say "might" need to pay mediacorp for ad fee if i want to put it in my website. What abt those models we shoot at motor shows and we put it in our website? Did most of you ask to modeling agency b4 putting it up on ur web? Guess not right??!! Is it cos she is a mediacorp actress that's why she has high marketing value? But i was paid by the spa coy for shooting the ad for them. The spa ad paid the actress to model for them. So at the end of the day...can i put those pics on the web?

Under copyright act in singapore. If you are the "author" or the creator of a commission orginal body of works like a music piece or in this case the photo. You might have release all rights to the client. But you do have the reserve right to display your work as a portfolio or for self promoting. So you can display your work on your web site for this purpose. Provided you do not gain direct benefit like the sale of this work to an other party or release the right of usage to another. But there condition to this. If you sign a letter of confidential. Then you have given up that right to use your work for self promoting purposes, as the term in such contacts will prevent you to display the photo in any form untill your client use the pictures for their purpose first. Usually it will state how long your client want photos to be in "confidential".

If you can justified that the pictures is only for self promoting and the pictures do not insult or put the subject in a bad light. You can use the photo of any one you shoot for self promoting.

Most of time when I shoot TFCD or any commission work I make sure to get a model release from the model. This way no matter how I use the photo I am protected. It will be good if you make 70% of you earning from photography to join the PPAS or Professional Photographer Assoication of Singapore. With in the company of professional photographer members in the assoication these things will become clearer.

[raptor84]

For singapoire if not stated otehr wise copyrights belong to the party comissioning the photo so unless they signed something that llows you to use the pics you techinaly just sold them all copyrights including future licensing fees...

[damienster]

there's no contract b/w me and the spa coy. they spa coy called me and we mutually agree the pricing. tt's abt it. When i done w the shots, i print some samples and pass the photos to the spa coy. Upon receiving the photos, the spa coy paid me according to the pricing of what we agree upon on phone conversation.

So can i still put it up on the web? Of cos it's putting the pic up for credibility and to up my portfolio strength. I'm not so sicko minded to use PS to change faces and bodies

[raptor84]

Originally Posted by damienster there's no contract b/w me and the spa coy. they spa coy called me and we mutually agree the pricing. tt's abt it. When i done w the shots, i print some samples and pass the photos to the spa coy. Upon receiving the photos, the spa coy paid me according to the pricing of what we agree upon on phone conversation. So can i still put it up on the web? Of cos it's putting the pic up for credibility and to up my portfolio strength. I'm not so sicko minded to use PS to change faces and bodies

The rights belong to the coy now be default. So if you want to use it for a portfolio you will need their written consent (to be safe and avoid future disputes)

[singscott]

Originally Posted by raptor84 For singapoire if not stated otehr wise copyrights belong to the party comissioning the photo so unless they signed something that llows you to use the pics you techinaly just sold them all copyrights including future licensing fees...

The above statement is misleading in most part. Firstly you will still have the rights to use the photo for self promoting. Regarding releasing rights of a commission work we at PPAS are trying to educate photographer that our bread and butter as well.

Photographer must state how much rights you are giving the client. It your call. It like using a hotel room let say. It not the room guest to say how much they willing to pay for a period time they are staying in the hotel room or use of the services the hotel is giving. The room guest can choose whom they want to do their business with. But it the service provider or the hotel is the one making call of how they want to charge how long you stay or use their services.

So it the same with photography. Many new comer to the business will simply give up all rights to client with out stating what their term to the usage of the photo. Please remember it the useage of our image we shot we are providing, we are not only selling the physical photo to the client that is just the media our client can use the image we shot for their purpose. Because there more new comer then season photographer in our market so people think that the right way of doing business. It your creation, you are the provider of image to be use by your client so it your call and you must state what your term regarding the usage. For your information the model industry is doing a better practices of this useage thingy then us photographer. But there must be enough people doing this common business practice which by way is practice by the rest of the world. So it will became a common business practice here. Singapore might fast and effective in many area, but we are lagging behind other in this common business practice.

[damienster]

Originally Posted by singscott The above statement is misleading in most part. Firstly you will still have the rights to use the photo for self promoting. Regarding releasing rights of a commission work we at PPAS are trying to educate photographer that our bread and butter as well. Photographer must state how much rights you are giving the client. It your call. It like using a hotel room let say. It not the room guest to say how much they willing to pay for a period time they are staying in the hotel room or use of the services the hotel is giving. The room guest can choose whom they want to do their business with. But it the service provider or the hotel is the one making call of how they want to charge how long you stay or use their services. So it the same with photography. Many new comer to the business will simply give up all rights to client with out stating what their term to the usage of the photo. Please remember it the useage of our image we shot we are providing, we are not only selling the physical photo to the client that is just the media our client can use the image we shot for their purpose. Because there more new comer then season photographer in our market so people think that the right way of doing business. It your creation, you are the provider of image to be use by your client so it your call and you must state what your term regarding the usage. For your information the model industry is doing a better practices of this useage thingy then us photographer. But there must be enough people doing this common business practice which by way is practice by the rest of the world. So it will became a common business practice here. Singapore might fast and effective in many area, but we are lagging behind other in this common business practice.

err..so can i use on my web?

[raptor84]

Yea the TS mentioned that there were to b/w terms of agreement. I didnt know that portfolio usage was a default right for photographers. So we are allowed non-commercial reproduction by default? I already know about restircting usage rights and licensing. Learned it the hard way once...

[singscott]

Originally Posted by damienster err..so can i use on my web?

In your case "YES". But do not sell the image or release the usage rights to other you will ok.

[singscott]

Originally Posted by raptor84 Yea the TS mentioned that there were to b/w terms of agreement. I didnt know that portfolio usage was a default right for photographers. So we are allowed non-commercial reproduction by default? I already know about restircting usage rights and licensing. Learned it the hard way once...

Portfolio and self promoting of your work is ok. Non commerical reproduction must for your self promotion. But you can not release your rights for usage of the image if the image is a commission work from a client. Sometime it is as easy as saying: "ok you can display my pictures in your shop" or "put my picture at your commerical web site for you to display" or "use it for your wedding card"

Hope these help.

[singscott]

Self promoting mean things like web site, mailer, com card, portfolio books, trade mags and other where people know that you are displaying your work to showcase your talent to them.

[centuryegg]

Correction, encountered such cases before. Speaking from someone who has dealt with MediaCorp. Answer is NO unless you want to be sued by MediaCorp.

The deal was made between MediaCorp and the Spa. The Spa paid MediaCorp XXX amount of $ to have its artiste endorse the Spa. You are paid as a contractor by agency or spa to take the photos whose rights belong to spa for its use in it's publicity campaign.

If you really want to use it, I would advise you to seek MediaCorp's permission. If not you will just join the long line of people that got sued for using the photos in their website, brochure etc etc....

[raptor84]

Originally Posted by singscott Portfolio and self promoting of your work is ok. Non commerical reproduction must for your self promotion. But you can not release your rights for usage of the image if the image is a commission work from a client. Sometime it is as easy as saying: "ok you can display my pictures in your shop" or "put my picture at your commerical web site for you to display" or "use it for your wedding card" Hope these help.

Thanks for the clarification

[Canonised]

Actually it depends a lot on who are you dealing with .... Mediacorp? .... better stay far far away, bro ....
remember NKF?... then NKF forgot SPH...haha
Size does count in the businessworld...

[centuryegg]

Originally Posted by Canonised Actually it depends a lot on who are you dealing with .... Mediacorp? .... better stay far far away, bro .... remember NKF?... then NKF forgot SPH...haha Size does count in the businessworld...

Yes you are very right. MediaCorp might not be always right but they win by size, the resources to fight a case to the end and a determination to protect the media rights of the images of their artistes (which translates to the money that can be earned from them)

They will bulldoze their way over you and really not worth it to fight against them.

[Virgo]

But it was mentioned by the TS that there is not contract whatsoever being signed either with the agency or client. If no mutual written agreement, copyrights belonged to the photographer.

Even if TS is being sued, they have no grounds against him right?

Originally Posted by centuryegg Correction, encountered such cases before. Speaking from someone who has dealt with MediaCorp. Answer is NO unless you want to be sued by MediaCorp. The deal was made between MediaCorp and the Spa. The Spa paid MediaCorp XXX amount of $ to have its artiste endorse the Spa. You are paid as a contractor by agency or spa to take the photos whose rights belong to spa for its use in it's publicity campaign. If you really want to use it, I would advise you to seek MediaCorp's permission. If not you will just join the long line of people that got sued for using the photos in their website, brochure etc etc....

[Canonised]

Originally Posted by Virgo Even if TS is being sued, they have no grounds against him right?

haha .... ask Mr T T Durai ....

[raptor84]

Originally Posted by Virgo But it was mentioned by the TS that there is not contract whatsoever being signed either with the agency or client. If no mutual written agreement, copyrights belonged to the photographer. Even if TS is being sued, they have no grounds against him right?

No written contract then by default ... taken from http://www.ipos.gov.sg/main/aboutip/...ipnrights.html

Originally Posted by IPOS "Commissioning: If the painting/portrait/photograph/engraving of a person is commissioned by another party, the commissioning party owns the copyright in the work. For other commissioned works, ownership rests in the commissioned party who created the work although the copyright may be transferred or assigned as established by the contract between the commissioner and commissioned party. Photographer or artist: If a photographer is engaged to take a photograph of a person or an artist is engaged to draw a portrait of a person, that person owns the copyright."

So techincally they own the copyright by default..