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Thread: Grey Matters B&W Challenge

  1. #1
    jcryan55
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    Default Grey Matters B&W Challenge

    Hi...all,

    Just like to hear some opinion about an event that I have been trying to nurture.
    Some of us at COL has been toying an idea to do a B&W photo challenge for almost 1 year. Tentatively, we're calling the event "Grey Matters".

    Here's the game plan....
    1. All particpants will use only film given by event and no digital cams allowed.
    2. It's a 4 hour thing where you get the topic to shoot for every hour that past. Total 3 topics.
    3. At the end of event, you submit the film that you take to the organiser.
    4. Organiser will get the film developed and the 2nd, 3rd and fourth exposed frame of the developed film will be printed to 5x7 inch prints.
    5. The following week, all works will be judged by a panel of 3 reputed B&W photographers or workers. No such thing as getting sponsor's staff who know nuts about photography to judge.
    6. All works will be anonymous to the judges and the photos will be judged on the merits as a set and not individually.
    7. Finalist works will be exhibited after the event and winners of the event will be honoured.

    We are thinking of doing it small scale so that we can manage the event better. As we're trying to make things simple, we may not want to get any sponsors involved. Anyway, most camera makers may nit be interested to sponsor as they're promoting more digital then film these days.

    A joke was we hope to do the Challenge with less than 20 persons....lesser hassle and logistics. We're not trying to beat the other big scale photo contest.

    Objectives of this event:

    1. Allow personal creativity to be the focus of this contest. becos nobody got better advantage when everyone is using the same film without any post shoot manipulation opportunities.
    2. Hope to force one to think before you snap as you are judged for each topic per hour per frame. One butterfinger and press the trigger could dash yr chance of winning if you did not think hard enough.
    3. All works are judged as a set instead of individually. So, sorry, no chance of fluke shots. And more importantly, it is judged by experienced people who have profound knowledge with B&W, not amateurs.
    4. We hope to showcase more serious B&W works and hopefully raise the standard of B&W photography in the local context. It's herd instinct,...when u see better works and be with people who take a serious view of their images, you will learn more and become better.

    If such a photo event take place, will you take part? Tell me what you feel....

    There's also a discussion in the COL forum at www.ecircleoflight.org/showthread.php?t=656

  2. #2

    Default Re: Grey Matters B&W Challenge

    Supported .. I still got SLR cameras with me and will not be parting them ...
    AMPA * WPPI * J team

  3. #3
    Senior Member phoakm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grey Matters B&W Challenge

    It will be a good challenge for SLR photography. I love doing B & W using SLR. Count me in if there is a go ahead.
    I AM BORNFIRE!
    My Flickr/TFCD Service

  4. #4

    Default Re: Grey Matters B&W Challenge

    Hi;

    Please count me in too. I am interested....

    regards. friends.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Grey Matters B&W Challenge

    If KO OK, I sure OK with KO .....

  6. #6
    jcryan55
    Guests

    Default Re: Grey Matters B&W Challenge

    Here's an extract of some discussion in the flickr singapore group.....Pretty interesting feedback.....

    B&W photo Challenge

    Jeffrey Yap says:

    hi...all,

    Just like to hear some opinion about an event that I have been trying to nurture.
    Some of us at COL has been toying an idea to do a B&W photo challenge for almost 1 year. Tentatively, we're calling the event "Grey Matters".

    Here's the game plan....
    1. All particpants will use only film given by event and no digital cams allowed.
    2. It's a 4 hour thing where you get the topic to shoot for every hour that past. Total 3 topics.
    3. At the end of event, you submit the film that you take to the organiser.
    4. Organiser will get the film developed and the 2nd, 3rd and fourth exposed frame of the developed film will be printed to 5x7 inch prints.
    5. The following week, all works will be judged by a panel of 3 reputed B&W photographers or workers. No such thing as getting sponsor's staff who know nuts about photography to judge.
    6. All works will be anonymous to the judges and the photos will be judged on the merits as a set and not individually.
    7. Finalist works will be exhibited after the event and winners of the event will be honoured.

    We are thinking of doing it small scale so that we can manage the event better. As we're trying to make things simple, we may not want to get any sponsors involved. Anyway, most camera makers may nit be interested to sponsor as they're promoting more digital then film these days.

    A joke was we hope to do the Challenge with less than 20 persons....lesser hassle and logistics. We're not trying to beat the other big scale photo contest.

    Objectives of this event:

    1. Allow personal creativity to be the focus of this contest. becos nobody got better advantage when everyone is using the same film without any post shoot manipulation opportunities.
    2. Hope to force one to think before you snap as you are judged for each topic per hour per frame. One butterfinger and press the trigger could dash yr chance of winning if you did not think hard enough.
    3. All works are judged as a set instead of individually. So, sorry, no chance of fluke shots. And more importantly, it is judged by experienced people who have profound knowledge with B&W, not amateurs.
    4. We hope to showcase more serious B&W works and hopefully raise the standard of B&W photography in the local context. It's herd instinct,...when u see better works and be with people who take a serious view of their images, you will learn more and become better.

    If such a photo event take place, will you take part? Tell me what you feel....

    There's also a discussion in the COL forum at www.ecircleoflight.org/showthread.php?t=656
    Posted at 10:37pm, 14 December 2006 MYT ( permalink | edit )


    Matt Madd says:

    @Jeffrey, kudos to your works in COL. Just curious why is digital B&W not allowed? I remembered that for Eye e City, digital B&W is allowed and if the concern is on manipulation we can also handover our cards unedited?
    I am one of those who are clueless about film, having learnt everything in
    digital yet immensely interested in B&W

    Matt
    Posted 12 hours ago. ( permalink )


    mohgui. says:

    @Jeff:

    by constraining the challenge to only film cameras, not many will take part. most of us, including myself... grew up with digital. going into film will most likely not garner our participation.

    we can still be discipline and shoot digital. the judges can pick our pictures and we can convert it to B&W on the spot in front of everybody. hence, "cheating" will never take place.

    how about that for a start?

    axisofjustice says:

    i think this is fantastic but at the same time agree with @Matt Madd & @mohgui.

    altho' i 'grew up' with digital, i've been 'going back' to film once in a while.
    Posted 10 hours ago. ( permalink )


    小猫王 says:

    It would be most interesting, since I've shot with film and have not yet ventured into shooting in B&W.

    Like Matt Madd, I'm one of those photographers who really have a thing for B&Ws and have learnt everything via digital. I do shoot via in-camera B&W modes though, and I could suggest that this competition could venture into digital monochrome too?

    Just asking then, is toning for photos allowed?
    Posted 46 minutes ago. ( permalink )


    St3pp3nW0lf says:

    I am interested, so count me in.

    The reason they want to make it film only is as Jeff mentioned, "Hope to force one to think before you snap as you are judged for each topic per hour per frame. One butterfinger and press the trigger could dash yr chance of winning if you did not think hard enough."

    Everyone using only film sort of levels the playing field.

    MM: there is no toning, or any sort of post-shoot manipulation. The film is provided by the event organisers.
    Posted 26 minutes ago. ( permalink )



    Jeffrey Yap says:

    We have debated about all these issues when we were planning for this event. Question to ask is ....there is already many photo contests locally that caters to digital photoshooting, so we do not need to "fry cold rice" again.

    I do agree that these days everyone is going for instant noodle concept - "Fast & can eat readily" but are we missing the finer tiuch of the darkroom. To be frank, unless u have experience the film and darkroom process....your opinions may change.....

    Not that we dun trust participants...but it is often how to judge whether the photo have been manipulated. I have witnessed previously that despite the no manipulation rules, shooters have lugged around laptops when they taken part in another competition. We just want to keep things simple and allow everyone who take part to be shooting on equal grounds. At the end of the day, it's your composition that differentiate the best out of the best.

    I did a similar challenge in New York last year under the Leica Gallery. The event attract about 80+ people to take part. Very simple event but the winning shoots were out of this world. It was also during that event that I realise how important is picture composition vs all the fanciful gears and technology that you may have. The winning entry was shot using a Russian made rangefinder.....nothing spectacular about his gear. But his image stays in my mind til this day. I would share the Leica experience when we meet up with any of you, by any chance.

    Fear not, while we make this a all film event, we're arranging for B&W film workshop to build up to this photo challenge. So, you don;t have the excuse that there was no avenues for you to learn about B&W film photography. Join us in these workshops and let us share with you the other side of B&W film photography that you have been hesitant about going into. Many past attendees of our workshops have taken film seriously when they see the beauty that for some compositions, digital just cannot emulate. At least for a start, traditional darkroom prints will last 100 years at least without all the fine prints like what most of the inkjet prints have claimed.

    Note our spirit in this event is not just to do the event for the sake of doing it. More importantly, we want to create more awareness of B&W photography in Singapore and also to encourage more people to try it. Many digital people (IMHO, not rep any other people's views) started off with digital and have been on a quest for the fundamental knowledge of photography which is hard to come by from a digital camera. The concept of DOF, darkroom techniques (burning & Dodging, the zone system etc) is usually not known to them but nontheless they would want to know more of its application and any help to improve your understanding of your pictures.

    Take example, Ken Seet. Many have seen his works lately when he 's the spokeman for Epson and Canon lately. But if you have seen his earlier works that he did in his darkroom, you would probably want to pick up a film camera. He don't spend 12 years in the darkroom for nothing. All these knowledge translate to his powerful images that he capture on digital today. If anyone of you have the chance to see his book project that he did with Mindef for the UN SAF East Timor Peace Keeping mission, you would understand what I mean....btw, the book is not in public circulation....Ken Seet has ever spoken during one of the COL gathering last year, sharing his extensive experience and knowledge in his darkroom and B&W world. Maybe I should invite him to do one more round if there's enuff response.

    On the other point, we're not trying to get quantity but quality for the event. We are hoping to attract people who are really passionate about the event, people who are serious and wants people to take them seriously for their images. I feel your photos will tell people how you view your works....snapshot or seriously. The relevant Respect level for the photographer comes thereafter.

    We're unlikely to change the format...so, if u r game enuff for film, u may like to come along. If not, there are other competitions locally that could serve that needs.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Grey Matters B&W Challenge


  8. #8
    Senior Member zac08's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grey Matters B&W Challenge

    How many participants are you limiting it to?

    Any entry fees?
    Michael Lim
    My Flickr Site

  9. #9
    jcryan55
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    Default Re: Grey Matters B&W Challenge

    The fees would be to cover all the costs involved. So, that should be about $20-30 per particiapnts. This would cover film, developing, 3 x 5R prints, refreshment and rental of venue. We're working on the scenario that we do not have any sponsors at all.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Grey Matters B&W Challenge

    count me in!

    join join join!

    gw

  11. #11

    Default Re: Grey Matters B&W Challenge

    I think this is good idea. I have 2 film bodies that I still keep and everytime I was to use them, I always endup with my digital. I am in if time and place works for me.

    Cheers.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Grey Matters B&W Challenge

    hmmm, am not eligible to participant but here are my two cts...

    Good B/W depends on:
    1) techniques in developing/dodging&burning/filters
    2) film types (speciality)

    I doubt there will be much to compare in terms of real B/W material because in actuality you'd be looking mostly at subject and lighting composition rather than imaging since you'll all be using the same film. Those using L lenses will get sharper and contrastier images as opposed to consumer lenses and those using superfast lenses wont be able to use the full advantages of their lenses if timing for the competition is wrong. On a 2nd level, using film depends on the processing of labs. If the lab assistants do not process the negs as intended by the photographer, i.e. taking away density to a seemingly underexposed image (as intended by photog) then that image would lack contrast and not be the intended vision of the photog.

    Think about it.. personally, I think this competition should be in digital AND include post processing in PS because of the best BW images of film in the past WERE:
    1) using specialty films of various grains e.g. Ilfords, BW, NEOPAN etc
    2) Pushed/Pulled/dodged/burned in development and post processing/printing
    If this was allowed in film, not too many ppl have access to labs where they can do their own development and even less have access to enlargers. Digital closes the gap in all this.

    Good luck...

  13. #13

    Default Re: Grey Matters B&W Challenge

    Good idea - I will join. Just for 35mm or MF too?

  14. #14

    Default Re: Grey Matters B&W Challenge

    Count me in.
    35mm or MF??

  15. #15

    Default Re: Grey Matters B&W Challenge

    count me in barney 96886133 mf or 35mm?

  16. #16
    jcryan55
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    Default Re: Grey Matters B&W Challenge

    we did explore that 35mm or 120 format can be used, Provided your camera is able to give minimum 4 frames for judging. Becos we'll take the 2nd, 3rd & 4th frame for judging....so whatever camera you use, it must be able to give at least 4 frames to qualify for the event. I guess at this point, large format is excluded from this event not intentionally but going by the rules and logistics planning.

  17. #17
    jcryan55
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    Default Re: Grey Matters B&W Challenge

    Hi people....watch out for this space....The details are coming!

  18. #18

    Default Re: Grey Matters B&W Challenge

    count me in if it goes on, 97915818

    Thanks

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Grey Matters B&W Challenge

    Official details now out!



    Click here for the full details!

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