How would you feel if an ex(?)-'professional' said this?

Feinwerkbau · 14th December 2006

"I used to be a wedding photographer...but that was in film era....IMO a sociable photographer is not an artist but a business man. U will see some photographer going around busy taking candid and loving moments while others go around chat, talk and pass namecards to potential customers trying to break ice producing politically correct wedding shots.

Nowadays if u go into digital, there are really no skills involved...they basically snap all the way then go back use PS to enhance everything. As long as they are good photo editor, I'm sure they can produce good results. For this kind of photographer u may want to hire those from bigger studios who can afford better macs and software.
U can also go clubsnap and look around for photographers...there are many of them there with works to reference from."

Interesting.

How would you feel, if you're a wedding professional?

I wonder about what could possibly make him/her pass judgement as such.

Belle&Sebastain · 14th December 2006

Originally Posted by Feinwerkbau

"I used to be a wedding photographer...but that was in film era....IMO a sociable photographer is not an artist but a business man. U will see some photographer going around busy taking candid and loving moments while others go around chat, talk and pass namecards to potential customers trying to break ice producing politically correct wedding shots.

Nowadays if u go into digital, there are really no skills involved...they basically snap all the way then go back use PS to enhance everything. As long as they are good photo editor, I'm sure they can produce good results. For this kind of photographer u may want to hire those from bigger studios who can afford better macs and software.
U can also go clubsnap and look around for photographers...there are many of them there with works to reference from."

Interesting.

How would you feel, if you're a wedding professional?

I wonder about what could possibly make him/her pass judgement as such.

no wonder the person used to be a wedding photographer.

Feinwerkbau · 14th December 2006

I think most of you would get 'heated' up at such comments...but before I posted, I stopped for a moment and wondered if there could be valid reason for such a comment, or is it just plain inflammatory?

Let's try to avoid a flame war, please.

raincool2005 · 14th December 2006

tell him this :

" Last time, police wear shorts.. now police wear pants... the future is more important than the past.. last time means last liao.. "

Splutter · 15th December 2006

I think the digital realm just opened up the possibilities of photography, as well as the methods of approaching it. IMHO, as long as you can achieve the required results, no one will care how it's done.

Bobman · 15th December 2006

Originally Posted by Feinwerkbau

Nowadays if u go into digital, there are really no skills involved...they basically snap all the way then go back use PS to enhance everything. As long as they are good photo editor, I'm sure they can produce good results. For this kind of photographer u may want to hire those from bigger studios who can afford better macs and software.
U can also go clubsnap and look around for photographers...there are many of them there with works to reference from."

Who cares when you are laughing and walking into the bank

Feinwerkbau · 15th December 2006

I was wondering about this guy.

I once knew a very nice Art Director who was a little reluctant to learn design programmes ... he very quickly went into semi-retirement.

Still awake Bob?

Feinwerkbau · 15th December 2006

Originally Posted by Splutter

I think the digital realm just opened up the possibilities of photography, as well as the methods of approaching it. IMHO, as long as you can achieve the required results, no one will care how it's done.

True, true...

It's difficult transitioning. For me I am still a rank beginner in the digital world, and struggling to learn all the basic stuff.

Frankly, it sometimes brings a person down, but it just dawned on me that it can also be looked upon like approaching everything all over again - with a clean slate...sort of.

New dawn, new challenges, new beginnings...

Bobman · 15th December 2006

Originally Posted by Feinwerkbau

I was wondering about this guy.

I once knew a very nice Art Director who was a little reluctant to learn design programmes ... he very quickly went into semi-retirement.

Still awake Bob?

Cannot sleep tonight.... Still toking to the Overseas Mountains...kekeke

Feinwerkbau · 15th December 2006

Hmm...fly aeroplane so late don't crash into the valleys ah!

I can;t believe I just said that! LOL!

daggerrr · 15th December 2006

Originally Posted by Feinwerkbau

"I used to be a wedding photographer...but that was in film era....IMO a sociable photographer is not an artist but a business man. U will see some photographer going around busy taking candid and loving moments while others go around chat, talk and pass namecards to potential customers trying to break ice producing politically correct wedding shots.

Nowadays if u go into digital, there are really no skills involved...they basically snap all the way then go back use PS to enhance everything. As long as they are good photo editor, I'm sure they can produce good results. For this kind of photographer u may want to hire those from bigger studios who can afford better macs and software.
U can also go clubsnap and look around for photographers...there are many of them there with works to reference from."

Last time those people with advanc darkroom skills can also dodge and burn their pictures until sui sui. Then can also hire photographers with the biggest store of chemicals.

Sarcasm aside, photoshopping is also a skill. Also, ultimately, if your product is good, and client is satisfied, then whether its skill at time of photo taking or talent with mouse and keyboard shouldn't be an issue.

Bobman · 15th December 2006

Originally Posted by Feinwerkbau

Hmm...fly aeroplane so late don't crash into the valleys ah!

I can;t believe I just said that! LOL!

They starting flying next week until dun noe when stop....

Belle&Sebastain · 15th December 2006

honestly, if a wedding photographer feels bad after hearing these comments, then its has hit you in your belt.

if you feel otherwise that you prove to be more than what he said, then you do not have to take into heart cos you are better than what the ex photographer made out wedding photographers to be.

i can't say its an easy job but i'm enjoy every minute of it

and i'm totally not affected by his comments as it means nothing to me. I know i work my ass off to get the image both on location and behind the screen.

iggy · 15th December 2006

My personal opinion is that this person should wake up and smell the evolution. Like Feinwerkbau's Art Director friend/acquaintance ....if rest on your laurels, you'll get left behind. What's the use of complaining, it's not going to do anything for him.

Sure, there are "photographers" who don't know much about light and are able to do a little magic with PS to make things look a little better. So what? There have always been film photographers of the same pedigree (or lack of it) who are able to get decent shots out of the darkroom, using burning, dodging, composites, etc. Personally, I think that the argument is moot.

It really annoys the crap out of me when I hear nonsense like this.

I too am an ex-photographer. Not weddings though, but commercial and fashion. I more or less stopped shooting professional about 8 years ago, as I moved into other businesses and film. Photography remained a passion albeit a neglected one. In this time of "latent imaging" (haha) I was able to pick and choose assignments that I wanted to do - but I had to work my butt off to get to that stage.

I visit ClubSNAP fairly often. And, I am generally impressed by the quality of the work and the level of technical ability that some of the guys and girls here have. I think it's a good thing - the higher the standard, the better we are forced to become.

Photography has always been a process of: preparation, capture, processing and post-processing. And each of these variables are controlled by one overriding principle - manipulation. It doesn't matter if it's film, digital or painted emulsion.

Sadly, it doesn't seem like this "photographer" is aware of that. Perhaps he'll go down the same road as Letraset and Kodachrome. Sad, really.

Feinwerkbau · 15th December 2006

Originally Posted by iggy

My personal opinion is that this person should wake up and smell the evolution. Like Feinwerkbau's Art Director friend/acquaintance ....if rest on your laurels, you'll get left behind. What's the use of complaining, it's not going to do anything for him.

Sure, there are "photographers" who don't know much about light and are able to do a little magic with PS to make things look a little better. So what? There have always been film photographers of the same pedigree (or lack of it) who are able to get decent shots out of the darkroom, using burning, dodging, composites, etc. Personally, I think that the argument is moot.

It really annoys the crap out of me when I hear nonsense like this.

I too am an ex-photographer. Not weddings though, but commercial and fashion. I more or less stopped shooting professional about 8 years ago, as I moved into other businesses and film. Photography remained a passion albeit a neglected one. In this time of "latent imaging" (haha) I was able to pick and choose assignments that I wanted to do - but I had to work my butt off to get to that stage.

I visit ClubSNAP fairly often. And, I am generally impressed by the quality of the work and the level of technical ability that some of the guys and girls here have. I think it's a good thing - the higher the standard, the better we are forced to become.

Photography has always been a process of: preparation, capture, processing and post-processing. And each of these variables are controlled by one overriding principle - manipulation. It doesn't matter if it's film, digital or painted emulsion.

Sadly, it doesn't seem like this "photographer" is aware of that. Perhaps he'll go down the same road as Letraset and Kodachrome. Sad, really.

Well said.

Letraset?

I still remember that a copier machine was a clumsy 2-armed device with a tracing stencil on one end, and a pencil on another. LOL!

djork · 15th December 2006

so i guess he's probably no longer interested to learn new stuff hence putting off new technology this way.

canturn · 15th December 2006

Well, much as digital photography and PS goes hand-in-hand, having good photgraphy skills still comes before anything else. let's say PS is for more photo enhancement or realisation of your artistic vision of the image vs damage control.

Garbage in, Garbage out, that's what I mean.

SolBadGuy · 15th December 2006

i believe that although digital photography involves the digital darkroom, it still doesn't guarantee results if u seek to amend all ur mistakes in post processing.

what u get from the camera is just as important. composition, exposure, etc. if u dun have it in the first place, no amount of PSing will save it. u cant possibly take a 8MP picture n crop 80% out of it. how large a print can u make after tat?

post processing should be seen as a step to enhance the image, not create it. i believe that the capturing and the post processing should be seen purely as a workflow.

CreaXion · 15th December 2006

Originally Posted by SolBadGuy

i believe that although digital photography involves the digital darkroom, it still doesn't guarantee results if u seek to amend all ur mistakes in post processing.

what u get from the camera is just as important. composition, exposure, etc. if u dun have it in the first place, no amount of PSing will save it. u cant possibly take a 8MP picture n crop 80% out of it. how large a print can u make after tat?

post processing should be seen as a step to enhance the image, not create it. i believe that the capturing and the post processing should be seen purely as a workflow.

Same opinion as above.

Just to chip in. Here is opinions from two old timers.

"Nowadays the young ones are so creative in their angles and composition. How to fight?"

"U young ones all always Photoshopped. Dun come and talk to me. If u always photoshopped, what std do u have? The time u spend on PS can do a lot of other things u know"

AQVA · 15th December 2006

common sense tells us tat an ignorant person's comments r worthless. its like the "ignorant" vs the "enlightened", at the end of the day common sense tells us who wins, inshort "y be bothered?"

14th December 2006	#1
Feinwerkbau Deregistered Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 836	How would you feel if an ex(?)-'professional' said this? "I used to be a wedding photographer...but that was in film era....IMO a sociable photographer is not an artist but a business man. U will see some photographer going around busy taking candid and loving moments while others go around chat, talk and pass namecards to potential customers trying to break ice producing politically correct wedding shots. Nowadays if u go into digital, there are really no skills involved...they basically snap all the way then go back use PS to enhance everything. As long as they are good photo editor, I'm sure they can produce good results. For this kind of photographer u may want to hire those from bigger studios who can afford better macs and software. U can also go clubsnap and look around for photographers...there are many of them there with works to reference from." Interesting. How would you feel, if you're a wedding professional? I wonder about what could possibly make him/her pass judgement as such. Last edited by Feinwerkbau; 14th December 2006 at 11:45 PM.

14th December 2006	#3
Feinwerkbau Deregistered Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 836	Re: How would you feel if an ex(?)-'professional' said this? I think most of you would get 'heated' up at such comments...but before I posted, I stopped for a moment and wondered if there could be valid reason for such a comment, or is it just plain inflammatory? Let's try to avoid a flame war, please.

14th December 2006	#4
raincool2005 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Raffles Place Posts: 1,694	Re: How would you feel if an ex(?)-'professional' said this? tell him this : " Last time, police wear shorts.. now police wear pants... the future is more important than the past.. last time means last liao.. "

15th December 2006	#5
Splutter Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Gim Boon Tai Posts: 2,819	Re: How would you feel if an ex(?)-'professional' said this? I think the digital realm just opened up the possibilities of photography, as well as the methods of approaching it. IMHO, as long as you can achieve the required results, no one will care how it's done. __________________ If you understand my works, it's photography. If you don't, it's art. SplutterPhotography\|flickr

15th December 2006	#7
Feinwerkbau Deregistered Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 836	Re: How would you feel if an ex(?)-'professional' said this? I was wondering about this guy. I once knew a very nice Art Director who was a little reluctant to learn design programmes ... he very quickly went into semi-retirement. Still awake Bob?

15th December 2006	#13
Belle&Sebastain Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: here Posts: 3,752	Re: How would you feel if an ex(?)-'professional' said this? honestly, if a wedding photographer feels bad after hearing these comments, then its has hit you in your belt. if you feel otherwise that you prove to be more than what he said, then you do not have to take into heart cos you are better than what the ex photographer made out wedding photographers to be. i can't say its an easy job but i'm enjoy every minute of it and i'm totally not affected by his comments as it means nothing to me. I know i work my ass off to get the image both on location and behind the screen. __________________ web http://www.9frames.com blog http://gilbertchua.blogspot.com/ WPN http://www.wpn.sg/

15th December 2006	#14
iggy Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 79	Re: How would you feel if an ex(?)-'professional' said this? My personal opinion is that this person should wake up and smell the evolution. Like Feinwerkbau's Art Director friend/acquaintance ....if rest on your laurels, you'll get left behind. What's the use of complaining, it's not going to do anything for him. Sure, there are "photographers" who don't know much about light and are able to do a little magic with PS to make things look a little better. So what? There have always been film photographers of the same pedigree (or lack of it) who are able to get decent shots out of the darkroom, using burning, dodging, composites, etc. Personally, I think that the argument is moot. It really annoys the crap out of me when I hear nonsense like this. I too am an ex-photographer. Not weddings though, but commercial and fashion. I more or less stopped shooting professional about 8 years ago, as I moved into other businesses and film. Photography remained a passion albeit a neglected one. In this time of "latent imaging" (haha) I was able to pick and choose assignments that I wanted to do - but I had to work my butt off to get to that stage. I visit ClubSNAP fairly often. And, I am generally impressed by the quality of the work and the level of technical ability that some of the guys and girls here have. I think it's a good thing - the higher the standard, the better we are forced to become. Photography has always been a process of: preparation, capture, processing and post-processing. And each of these variables are controlled by one overriding principle - manipulation. It doesn't matter if it's film, digital or painted emulsion. Sadly, it doesn't seem like this "photographer" is aware of that. Perhaps he'll go down the same road as Letraset and Kodachrome. Sad, really.

15th December 2006	#16
djork Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Hong Kong, Pokfulam Posts: 1,195	Re: How would you feel if an ex(?)-'professional' said this? so i guess he's probably no longer interested to learn new stuff hence putting off new technology this way. __________________ Canon 300D, 30D, 5D. 17-40 f4 L, 24-105 f4 L, 70-200 f2.8 L IS

15th December 2006	#17
canturn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: East, SG Posts: 2,706	Re: How would you feel if an ex(?)-'professional' said this? Well, much as digital photography and PS goes hand-in-hand, having good photgraphy skills still comes before anything else. let's say PS is for more photo enhancement or realisation of your artistic vision of the image vs damage control. Garbage in, Garbage out, that's what I mean. __________________ website: Lyrical Moments Photography Facebook page here

15th December 2006	#18
SolBadGuy Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,252	Re: How would you feel if an ex(?)-'professional' said this? i believe that although digital photography involves the digital darkroom, it still doesn't guarantee results if u seek to amend all ur mistakes in post processing. what u get from the camera is just as important. composition, exposure, etc. if u dun have it in the first place, no amount of PSing will save it. u cant possibly take a 8MP picture n crop 80% out of it. how large a print can u make after tat? post processing should be seen as a step to enhance the image, not create it. i believe that the capturing and the post processing should be seen purely as a workflow.

15th December 2006	#20
AQVA Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: singapura Posts: 241	Re: How would you feel if an ex(?)-'professional' said this? common sense tells us tat an ignorant person's comments r worthless. its like the "ignorant" vs the "enlightened", at the end of the day common sense tells us who wins, inshort "y be bothered?" Last edited by AQVA; 15th December 2006 at 08:56 AM.