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Thread: Finally, Singapore purchase new Main Battle Tank : Leopard 2A4

  1. #221

    Default Re: Finally, Singapore purchase new Main Battle Tank : Leopard 2A4

    I think 3g, big guns and stuff are great but you really just need it big enough to shoot off the other hvts around during a frontal assault and then let the infantry clean up and hold.

    But morden warfare is surprsingly unconventional after the main battle. And I feel we are not trained well enough for unconventional warfare. Perhaps our entire guards or even infantry can be further honed in areas of markmanship, survival and anti tank weponary for gurellia warefare.

    The macavars were easily being picked off by anti tank missiles during the recent isrealli conflict. Imagine an al chepo manpack missle picking off a few million dollars worth of serious hardware. Similary the effectivness of gurellia tactics is proving superior in working aorund all the technological advatages America has after post war iraq.
    Last edited by Tsangstudios; 13th December 2006 at 12:25 PM.

  2. #222
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    Default Re: Finally, Singapore purchase new Main Battle Tank : Leopard 2A4

    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbesyeo View Post
    I agree.. its a very fine line between secrets and public domain information.

    Just to be on the safe side, lets just keep the discussion to what's available on the internet.
    Sure!

  3. #223
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    Default Re: Finally, Singapore purchase new Main Battle Tank : Leopard 2A4

    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbesyeo View Post
    According to information available on the websites, these tanks can "swim" in water for a limited distance of course.
    The Leopard 2s don't swim, they stay submerged (i.e. sink) up to 4m with deep wading kits. MBTs are too heavy to swim....

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    Default Re: Finally, Singapore purchase new Main Battle Tank : Leopard 2A4

    Quote Originally Posted by Zplus View Post
    Yes, the Allied Sherman tanks literally burned after one shot from a Tiger, Panther or Jagdpanther. The Allies were also not as disciplined or well trained. But during Normandy, the Allies had a lot of matériel while the Germans had lost a lot of their resources in Russia. Worst, the Luftwaffe lost air supriority.

    Hence, a good tank can only get you so far. More importantly, all the 3 forces must work in unison. Plus numbers do count in the long run.
    Surprisingly Israel were using sherman tanks in their earlier conflicts... And they used it against Soviet tanks...

  5. #225
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    Default Re: Finally, Singapore purchase new Main Battle Tank : Leopard 2A4

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsangstudios View Post
    I think 3g, big guns and stuff are great but you really just need it big enough to shoot off the other hvts around during a frontal assault and then let the infantry clean up and hold.

    But morden warfare is surprsingly unconventional after the main battle. And I feel we are not trained well enough for unconventional warfare. Perhaps our entire guards or even infantry can be further honed in areas of markmanship, survival and anti tank weponary for gurellia warefare.

    The macavars were easily being picked off by anti tank missiles during the recent isrealli conflict. Similary the effectivness of gurellia tactics is proving superior in working aorund all the technological advatages America has after post war iraq.
    I think the most important lesson is not to stay too long and engage too much in a hostile territory... No matter how well train or equip you are, you are in a mega disadvantage...

  6. #226

    Default Re: Finally, Singapore purchase new Main Battle Tank : Leopard 2A4

    Quote Originally Posted by Wowee View Post
    I think the most important lesson is not to stay too long and engage too much in a hostile territory... No matter how well train or equip you are, you are in a mega disadvantage...
    Unfortunately in any warfare we will need to hold the aquired positions until stability returns should we every get into a conflict.

  7. #227
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    Default Re: Finally, Singapore purchase new Main Battle Tank : Leopard 2A4

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsangstudios View Post
    Unfortunately in any warfare we will need to hold the aquired positions until stability returns should we every get into a conflict.
    Depends on what is the objective...

    The most successful conqueror Genghis Khan, wipe out whole cities so as not to allow an enemy to form in his midst... He wants the land and the riches in the cities... plus the girls also... Whack, devastate and go...

    Uncle Sam wants to win and be nice guy and take revenge, preach democracy... Abit hard lah...

    Israel wants the land, entertain Uncle Sam by trying to be nice guy also... Very very hard...

  8. #228
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    Default Re: Finally, Singapore purchase new Main Battle Tank : Leopard 2A4

    Quote Originally Posted by Wowee View Post
    Cau.... cannot take the weight... It is not one tank going over leh...

    Ship over barge, sitting ducks leh... We don't have enough LSTs to be utilise just for the A4s...

    Wonder what the SAF planners have up their sleeves...
    That bridge can take a lot more weight than 55 tons, you know. If you think a tank weighing 55 tons is the heaviest thing on the roads, you ain't seen nothing yet It's all about axle loading, not the total weight. For heavy transport (civilian), they use special trailers with many, many wheels and axles to distribute out the load.
    Back to the A4, on road transport, they should be using those tank transporters.

    Come to think of it, when I was a kid living in Queenstown in the '70s, I still remember the thundering noise those M113s made when a few of them travelled on the road outside my house. It's been years since I've heard that noise. Are M113s or other military tracked vehicles still allowed to drive on the road ?

  9. #229

    Default Re: Finally, Singapore purchase new Main Battle Tank : Leopard 2A4

    Quote Originally Posted by Zplus View Post
    The Leopard 2s don't swim, they stay submerged (i.e. sink) up to 4m with deep wading kits. MBTs are too heavy to swim....
    oh yes.. you are correct. The youtube videos show that the tanks have a snorkle thing attached when they are in water.

  10. #230

    Default Re: Finally, Singapore purchase new Main Battle Tank : Leopard 2A4

    Quote Originally Posted by arpinkor View Post
    That bridge can take a lot more weight than 55 tons, you know. If you think a tank weighing 55 tons is the heaviest thing on the roads, you ain't seen nothing yet It's all about axle loading, not the total weight. For heavy transport (civilian), they use special trailers with many, many wheels and axles to distribute out the load.
    Back to the A4, on road transport, they should be using those tank transporters.

    Come to think of it, when I was a kid living in Queenstown in the '70s, I still remember the thundering noise those M113s made when a few of them travelled on the road outside my house. It's been years since I've heard that noise. Are M113s or other military tracked vehicles still allowed to drive on the road ?
    In the event of a war, I think one of the first things to get destroyed would be that bridge.

    In my time, tracked vehicles were generally not allowed on the public roads, simply because the tracked tend to damage the roads. Not sure if its still the case now.

  11. #231
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    Default Re: Finally, Singapore purchase new Main Battle Tank : Leopard 2A4

    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbesyeo View Post
    In the event of a war, I think one of the first things to get destroyed would be that bridge.

    In my time, tracked vehicles were generally not allowed on the public roads, simply because the tracked tend to damage the roads. Not sure if its still the case now.
    at least during NDP they still allow them to go on the road...

    Maybe need to do resurfacing after that...

  12. #232

    Default Re: Finally, Singapore purchase new Main Battle Tank : Leopard 2A4

    Quote from a famous doctor: ' There are many ways to skin a cat...'

    And so we ordered some cats & see whaz next.

  13. #233

    Default Re: Finally, Singapore purchase new Main Battle Tank : Leopard 2A4

    The entire purpose of the MBT is to carry the main gun into battle. The armor is provided to ensure that the crew is protected from shrapnel (the main cause of battlefield casualties) and small arms fire. The crew exists solely to serve the main gun. The driver gets the vehicle to firing position, the tank commander selects targets, the loader ensures the weapon is loaded with the correct ammunition for the target selected, and the gunner makes sure the round strikes the target in the area of maximum vulnerability.
    It's basically a direct fire weapon.

  14. #234
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    Default Re: Finally, Singapore purchase new Main Battle Tank : Leopard 2A4

    Quote Originally Posted by zac08 View Post
    Well..

    let's just keep the discussion to the topic on hand and not discuss any possible tactics or other sensitive information. After-all, you will never know who might be reading these stuff.

    55 tons, can our normal roads take such weights? Something to ponder about.
    the roads can take it, as I suppose the tracks are padded. don't keep thinking of 55 tons, what is important (for solid ground) is the ground pressure, which is the weight divided by the contact area of the track.

    bridges and other structures will be another matter. you can see a load class sign on many of the bridges and fly overs.

  15. #235
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    Default Re: Finally, Singapore purchase new Main Battle Tank : Leopard 2A4

    Quote Originally Posted by arpinkor View Post
    That bridge can take a lot more weight than 55 tons, you know. If you think a tank weighing 55 tons is the heaviest thing on the roads, you ain't seen nothing yet It's all about axle loading, not the total weight. For heavy transport (civilian), they use special trailers with many, many wheels and axles to distribute out the load.
    Back to the A4, on road transport, they should be using those tank transporters.

    Come to think of it, when I was a kid living in Queenstown in the '70s, I still remember the thundering noise those M113s made when a few of them travelled on the road outside my house. It's been years since I've heard that noise. Are M113s or other military tracked vehicles still allowed to drive on the road ?
    only M113 can drive on public roads, and only under proper convoy control. this is because M113s have padded tracks (unlike AMX-13) and also light enough. However, they can still damage the tar surface when they turn since tracked vehicles turn bya differential in speed between the two tracks, hence one of the track will be "dragging" and when the turn is sharp enough (say turning at a junction) the tracks bite into the tar surface.

  16. #236
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    Default Re: Finally, Singapore purchase new Main Battle Tank : Leopard 2A4

    Quote Originally Posted by arpinkor View Post
    That bridge can take a lot more weight than 55 tons, you know.
    "that" is not even a bridge man.

  17. #237
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    Default Re: Finally, Singapore purchase new Main Battle Tank : Leopard 2A4

    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbesyeo View Post
    In the event of a war, I think one of the first things to get destroyed would be that bridge.

    In my time, tracked vehicles were generally not allowed on the public roads, simply because the tracked tend to damage the roads. Not sure if its still the case now.
    in the early 80s we routinely convoy M113s across the island on the PIE. And also to Ayer Rajah (for the youngsters, Ayer Rajah used to be two lane only hor for maintenance. When I was at 42SAR in Selarang, every time we go training we have to convoy for 2 hours each way.

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    Default Re: Finally, Singapore purchase new Main Battle Tank : Leopard 2A4

    more and more countries are going for WMDs.. i guess all these conventional weapons like tanks will soon outdated in 8-10 years time. Just look at Iran, North Korea.. once they got hold of the magic weapon, their voices at UN meetings started to change..

    i forsee more conflicts in coming years.. just observed closely.

  19. #239

    Default Re: Finally, Singapore purchase new Main Battle Tank : Leopard 2A4



    VS


  20. #240

    Default Re: Finally, Singapore purchase new Main Battle Tank : Leopard 2A4

    Polish made T-90 vs German made Leopard 2...

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

    Scorpions vs.... =)

    Mig-29 vs .... =)
    Last edited by panzerpunk; 13th December 2006 at 09:31 PM.

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