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Thread: Is there a law against this?

  1. #121

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    Originally posted by maddog


    streetshooting is voyeurism under the guise of art.
    An excellent definition!

  2. #122
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    Default Re: Re: Is there a law against this?

    Originally posted by longman


    U shld call police or contact the manager there to take some actions.....I hate such Ah Beng actions....shld ask them go back n take their mum photo....
    "Ah Beng action" is a personnel thought, the law doesn't decribed it that way. Relax Brother.

    Cheers.

  3. #123
    Sin
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    1. There is no law against what you describe. Possibility of legal actions against them: close to none. There is no point debating this.

    2. Is it morally right of the boys? No, to most people. Can you do anything? Yes, get the management of the cafe. The cafe is not a public place. It is a place of business, private property. The cafe manager CAN do something.

    3. How different is this considered to a gang of guys sitting around in the cafe and admiring the girls that come in, without a DC, and whispering things?

    4. Are you pissed about the looking or the shooting? Does a camera make the act all the more "evil"?

    5. If you're pissed that guys look at your fren, then your fren should either stay at home or walk the streets wearing a paper bag over her head.

    6. Streetshooting or voyeurism?I thought got old thread. This has been debated to death liao.


    and BTW: If I was the one being confronted by the police, I'd ask them back in the face what crime I committed and what right they have to question me. Then I'd ask for the police's warrant number and lodge complaint with the authorities. After that, if it had been a real misjustice (DC kenna thrown or anything like that) I'd go to the press. So it doesn't pay to be rash.

  4. #124

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    1: normally, you are not allow to snap in a shop(for singapore).
    2: ask the guys to stop shooting.
    3: tell the manager of the shop.

  5. #125
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    Default

    This sggirls.com thing is a shameful voyeuristic perversive website. Where the young boys who take photos of such have no luck with any woman who try to fulfil their inadequecies with childish fantasies.

  6. #126

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    Originally posted by Sin
    1. There is no law against what you describe. Possibility of legal actions against them: close to none. There is no point debating this.

    2. Is it morally right of the boys? No, to most people. Can you do anything? Yes, get the management of the cafe. The cafe is not a public place. It is a place of business, private property. The cafe manager CAN do something.

    3. How different is this considered to a gang of guys sitting around in the cafe and admiring the girls that come in, without a DC, and whispering things?

    4. Are you pissed about the looking or the shooting? Does a camera make the act all the more "evil"?

    5. If you're pissed that guys look at your fren, then your fren should either stay at home or walk the streets wearing a paper bag over her head.

    6. Streetshooting or voyeurism?I thought got old thread. This has been debated to death liao.


    and BTW: If I was the one being confronted by the police, I'd ask them back in the face what crime I committed and what right they have to question me. Then I'd ask for the police's warrant number and lodge complaint with the authorities. After that, if it had been a real misjustice (DC kenna thrown or anything like that) I'd go to the press. So it doesn't pay to be rash.
    Point 5 is out of point. The guys were not taking pictures or looking at her ONLY. They were doing that to any girl that stepped in their view and they took secret snapshops of the girl in view. I was pissed because of that. And also if my friend was going to be their next target, should i just sit back and happy happy let them shoot or should i do Point 2?

    I think point 2 would be the correct thing to do.
    Flashing the warrant card is of no use in this situation since no breaking of the law was done.
    But a brief look through the contents of the memory card would have surfaced lots of unhappy information

  7. #127
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    Default Re: Re: Re: Is there a law against this?

    Originally posted by FLiNcHY


    come to think of it, they did look abit bengish

    long dyed hair with slippers
    just sitting there talking nonsense and looking out for girls to walk past and then secretly taking their photos. Thats abt all they did the whole time.
    wah liew... i also got dyed hair leh...i am in sandals now...but i am no beng...heheh...scarly that guy is me hor...

  8. #128

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    Originally posted by FLiNcHY

    But a brief look through the contents of the memory card would have surfaced lots of unhappy information
    I'd be glad to inspect the contents on your behalf (lest you become too offended and faint)...

  9. #129

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    Originally posted by StreetShooter


    I'd be glad to inspect the contents on your behalf (lest you become too offended and faint)...
    nah
    should be the same as those at sggirls
    stay cool and calm

  10. #130
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    Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Is there a law against this?

    Originally posted by kindred


    wah liew... i also got dyed hair leh...i am in sandals now...but i am no beng...heheh...scarly that guy is me hor...
    kindred is lian...

    Jokes aside, I really don't see the point of stirring a big fuss here. What use is it for FLiNcHY to show his/her fustration here *long after* the event had taken place? As many has said, the right action should be to confront those guys *when it happened*, and to get the floor manager involved. Sorry to be harsh, but it's useless to keep complaining afterwards when one lacks the courage to handle the situation in the first place.

    My 2 cents.

  11. #131

    Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Is there a law against this?

    Originally posted by ziploc


    kindred is lian...

    Jokes aside, I really don't see the point of stirring a big fuss here. What use is it for FLiNcHY to show his/her fustration here *long after* the event had taken place? As many has said, the right action should be to confront those guys *when it happened*, and to get the floor manager involved. Sorry to be harsh, but it's useless to keep complaining afterwards when one lacks the courage to handle the situation in the first place.

    My 2 cents.
    I wasnt complaining for the sake of complaining.
    I was just relating what happened at the coffee place last nite and what the best course of action should have been used and whether there was a law against such lowdown acts of voyeurism and also to discuss whether such types of lowdown phototaking are accepted by people.

    It turns out that some people here do not see anything wrong with it.

    I didn't see the need to confront the 3 guys because my friend did not get her picture taken thanks to some quickthinking. I just feel sad for other girls who have been unknowingly taken and may be making their way to the front pages of Sggirls and photoforum
    Last edited by FLiNcHY; 8th February 2003 at 06:17 PM.

  12. #132

    Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Is there a law against this?

    Originally posted by FLiNcHY

    It turns out that some people here do not see anything wrong with it.
    it is not "nothing wrong", but what those guys did were "within their right", and it is under the same "rule" that many of us here do our photography, that is

    - snapping people without their knowledge in public, and post it on an online website. at times, even inapprioriate titles were give to the photos.

    would I be pissed off ? yes I would be in the same situation, and I'm pretty timid, so I'll probably do nothing, but I'll just to mentally prepare myself to approach the manager of those guys (if they look like scrawny nerds) directly.

    on a personal experience, I was once playing with my friend's camera at Coffee Bean Funan, the guys (got male and female) at the next table kept staring at me, because they thought I took a snap, they keep doing that, and even when they left the shop, the shot a stare from outside...... if they want, they could have approached me. Stupid people......... I didn't even press the shutter, and I don't even know if the camera is loaded... I just pick it up and take a look though the viewfinder and it triggered that.

    rgs
    rueyloon

    edited a spelling mistake
    Last edited by rueyloon; 8th February 2003 at 07:27 PM.
    36frames Wedding Photography - http://www.36frames.com
    rueyloon - http://www.rueyloon.com

  13. #133

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    There was an article on this in the NEW paper before.

    http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/top/sto...401540,00.html

    Morally, there is everything wrong about such voyeurism, but not legally.
    So in dealing with such situation, it's all about your own responsibility and the law can't really be depended upon.

    Thus, if you feel that something should be done for the other victims, then like what some have suggested, inform the cafe manager, OR you could go to the other victim (girls) and tell them what you see. Then, what course of action they decide is really up to them. That way, at least you'd have done your part and wouldn't have to feel guilty about it.

    However, if you feel that you have no concern about the whole thing because attempts to shoot your friend was unsuccessful, then you should just leave it all behind and forget about it.

    Have fun,

  14. #134
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    Interesting thread.

    A similar incident happened to me at the River HongBao during Chinese New Year two years ago. My friends and I were walking around soaking in the festivities and a few of us had cameras for the usual snapshot. I was taking a shot of something (can't remember what) when suddenly this middle-aged lady storeholder came up to me and told me firmly not to take any more photos of her and her stall I was rather amused and told her that it wasn't the case. She accepted my explanation, but not before saying something in Mandarin to the effect of, "don't anyhow point your camera." Nothing unpleasant happened.

    I always adopt the attitude of live and let live because there is only so much that the law can regulate personal conduct and a litigious society is the last thing we want to be

    I agree with RL that if one is unhappy about having one's photo taken in public, just approach the photographer and let him/her know. I'm sure in most cases the person will cease his/her actions.

    regards
    andrew

    p/s look at my avatar, it was taken w/o the permission of the person (and the dog) but he was quite pleased that he and his pet was getting some attention from a 2-bit photographer.
    Last edited by kh_drew; 8th February 2003 at 06:57 PM.

  15. #135

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    Taking public snapshots and doing voyeurism has its similarities

    BUT, you have to ask yourself this:

    "Why am i taking this shot?"



    1.Is it because i want to improve my photography streetshooting skills. Improve my composition and get the best shot possible.

    OR

    2. I want to secretly take photos of pretty girls that are in the coffee place or in the mrt. I want to go home and post these pics on www.sggirls.com and www.photoforum.org. I care not for photography and self improvement. I only seek to quench my teenage lust for young singaporean females


    Both are considered "Streetshooting". Yet both are in very different forms. You be the judge

  16. #136

    Smile

    Just as ziploc mentioned. I would have informed the floor manager or security guard. Reason, those guys were a nuisance. It is up to them, building management, security personnel to act appropriately. Asking those guys to stop what they are doing or leave the premises. Or it is either they leave or I(we) leave. that is as much as we/they all can do for now.

    These days, handphone/PDA with built-in cam are not allowed in gym/changing room. I am sure these are banned in public swimming pool as well.

  17. #137
    Sin
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    Originally posted by FLiNcHY
    Taking public snapshots and doing voyeurism has its similarities

    BUT, you have to ask yourself this:

    "Why am i taking this shot?"



    1.Is it because i want to improve my photography streetshooting skills. Improve my composition and get the best shot possible.

    OR

    2. I want to secretly take photos of pretty girls that are in the coffee place or in the mrt. I want to go home and post these pics on www.sggirls.com and www.photoforum.org. I care not for photography and self improvement. I only seek to quench my teenage lust for young singaporean females


    Both are considered "Streetshooting". Yet both are in very different forms. You be the judge

    My answer would have been :

    I want to improve my photography streetshooting skills. Improve my composition and get the best shot possible. So that I can post better pics in SGGirls and Photoforum.org


    Seriously, what is the whole point of contention here?
    Are you
    1. unhappy with sites like SGGirls and PhotoForum, or
    2. are you unhappy with photos taken of your friend, or
    3. are you against taking of pictures without subject knowing, or
    4. are you just pissed that certain people don't subscribe to your set of moral values and take photos for their own entertainment?


    If it's 1, then the whole anger should be directed at the sites and the people you KNOW posts pics on these sites. it should not be focused on the people who are only (at that moment) taking pictures (who you ASSUME are posting the pics). Without proof that these people are posting, they fall into "streetphotography".

    If it's 2, then as suggested, either get them to stop or warn your frens. Or like I lightheartedly mentioned, get your frens to stay home or wear paper bags over their heads (not very likely right?). There is no legal recourse unless indecency or defamation occured.

    If it's 3, then you are against street photography. Sadly or fortunately, depending on how some people look at it, there is no law against street photography and there's even an "art" form surrounding it. Again no recourse legally unless something bad is committed.

    If it's 4, as your last post indicated, then really there's no help for it unless you can start a revolution and gather full authoritarian power so that everyone lives according to one set of value. Then you can make a law which imposes capital punishment on everyone who "seek to quench their teenage lust for young (singaporean or any nationality for that matter) females."



    It's a personal issue. Then solve it at a personal level.
    Don't have to use "law" and "authority" with threat of punishments to solve every problem ok? (errr how come I sound like Malaysian Govt....).
    Just tell the guys not to do it, I'm sure they'd be embarrassed and would have quickly left or stopped. Only if they start to beat you up, then pull out your warrant.

  18. #138

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    I think i would have chose 4


    Oh well, i'll just have to accept that there are detriments in every society

  19. #139
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    Originally posted by StreetShooter


    Wah, you have access to penal code har?

    Actually, everyone also have lar....

    http://agcvldb4.agc.gov.sg/

    Interesting that a search for "invasion of privacy" throws up NOTHING. I guess otherwise government cannot function liaw...
    what about the women's charter ??

  20. #140
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    Wah, didn't know there was such a thing as sggirls... it's quite sick. See some persons I know even.

    It's certainly a moral issue, but not really a legal one. I guess technically it could be classified as causing annoyance, but it's hard to prove in court.

    Flinchy, pls don't show your warrant card unless you're certain some criminal act is being committed. Stories of abuse (or 'abuse') of police powers get around and the SPF will find it a bit harder to do their daily job.

    Morality cannot be enforced by law. For every group of voyeur snappers there are more who don't snap but have equally dirty or dirtier minds. An offence requires the act as well as the intention, right? It's the intention that is immoral. Law has no power over intentions.

    Certainly it's better to stop people posting stuff like sggirls, but I think it's a deeper problem: there are plenty of people who WANT to see pics like those. That can't be changed by legislation.

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