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Thread: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

  1. #121

    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    Quote Originally Posted by redstone View Post
    Standing on public space, you have nothing to fear, you have the legal right to shoot anything.
    I didnt fear but the thing was she really made sure I couldnt get the photo. Stood in front of the camera blocking the shot. I moved, she moved. and just stared into my eye... I was like huh?? You are high class boutique staff not security guard?! So in the end no matter how I moved she was in shot..... sigh.....

  2. #122

    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    Quote Originally Posted by centuryegg View Post
    I didnt fear but the thing was she really made sure I couldnt get the photo. Stood in front of the camera blocking the shot. I moved, she moved. and just stared into my eye... I was like huh?? You are high class boutique staff not security guard?! So in the end no matter how I moved she was in shot..... sigh.....
    Did you not understand that she wanted her picture taken?
    It is the camera, not the photographer.
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  3. #123

    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    Quote Originally Posted by centuryegg View Post
    Nothing new... some high fashion shops at Paragon are very against photography... the ultimate was when I was taking photos with a Point and Shoot outside paragon. I was standing on the main pavement and taking a photo of a foreign friend. Their shop was just in the background. The staff came out and stood in front of the camera and said no photo taking of the shop. I was like huh???? They didnt leave until I left.... Stood in front of the camera like a police officer
    This is the irritating part. High fashion shop in Paragon? Which shop? What are you afraid of? What are we afraid of? that the shop is going to sue us? How?

    We complain but we don't do a thing. That is disgusting!

    The least I will do is to get this staff fired.
    Last edited by Deadpoet; 8th December 2006 at 01:22 PM.
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  4. #124
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    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    Be reasonable in your interpretation of what I wrote. What I said is, if you have not done anything unlawful, there's no need to answer questions.
    So going by your quote, if you were in a public place, minding your own business and a policeman walks up to you and ask you what you're doing, you don't have to answer him because you have not done anything unlawful? Even if you've not done anything unlawful, try it and you'll see what happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    If there is such a thing called human rights, it's in the fact that you are innocent until proven guilty, and that you do not have to answer any questions you do not wish to. You have the right not to incriminate yourself. In the US, it's called the 5th Amendment. The Fifth Amendment protects witnesses from being forced to incriminate themselves. To "plead the Fifth" or to "take the Fifth" is to refuse to answer a question because the response could form incriminating evidence. This is meant to ensure that cases are tried on hard evidence, not on "confessions" or "statements".
    First, this is Singapore not the US.
    2nd, the point is the need, or not, to answer to anyone when questioned, esp so when you're in a public place. Not about your right not to answer so as not to incriminate yourself ( one is not answering because you have not done anything wrong, while the other, is not answering because you have done something and may incriminate yourself by answering ), that would be in a court case, in the US, where the 5th Admenment is use because you want to hide info so as not to incriminate your elf. Does not apply here. Please see your earlier posting below.

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    It's not that difficult if you stand your ground. I doubt they will manhandle you. And most security "guards" in Singapore are not armed. You don't have to explain your actions to anyone, esp. if you're in a public place.
    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    Although there is no 5th Amendment here, the police still have to show reasonable cause.
    1st, they must have a reason to approch you to ask you what you're doing and what you're shooting. Maybe someone call them about a guy with a bag hang around the area and look suspicious? So they have reasonable cause to approch you with a question.
    2nd, when you insist on not answering their question, they have reasonable cause to hold you for further questioning.
    By your actions of not co-operating with them and giving them the impression that you're hidding something, you have given them reasonable cause.

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    They are not all-powerful, as many in Singapore think they are. They can't hold you beyond 48 hours without producing you in court. If they seize your camera, and all they can prove to the court is that you took pictures of pretty women in Raffles Place when you were standing in the middle of a public road, there is nothing they can charge you with, whether or not you answer questions.
    At 48 hour, they can apply to the court to hold you for a longer period of time because you have refused to answer their questions and as such they suspect that you have done something and is hiding it so they "need your assistance" or just simply suspect that you're of unsound mind and need to have kopi at Woodbridge instate. After all, if someone is still not willing to talk after 48 hours of questioning by the police, something could very well be wrong. The judge will most likly ask you the same question and if you don't answer, you may jolly well be away from home for a few more days.

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    If they can't charge you with anything, they won't bring you to court. The PP's don't like to lose cases because you would raise the defence that there is no case to answer. The judges also like to scold PP's who bring frivolous cases. There's also wrongful arrest, for which you can get compensation.
    As said earlier, they can apply to the court to sent you to Woodbridge as no sound minded person will keep quite for 48 hours while being questioned by the police, either that or they got something to hide.

    Somewhere along the line, if they found out that you've really not done anything unlawful, but because you've refused to answer their questions, you could be charge for "refusual to co-operate with an officer of the law" or "obstructing an officer from carrying out his duty" and because the judge have ask you a direct question at 48 hours, and you refuse to answer, you can be charge with contempt of court.

    No case to answer? The case now is not just you holding to your right not to answer because you have not done anything wrong. It is the rolling effect of your actions of not co-operating with the police during questioning. The PP will love this kind of case, it is clear cut ( at least in their opinion ) that you're trying to be funny and is challangeing them ( I've done nothing wrong so why must I answer your question. There's nothing you can do to me even if I don't co-operate with you so long as I've not broken the law ). And when a judge ask you " what were you doing there and why have you not co-operate with the police? " and you don't answer ( you did post that you don't have to answer to anybody ) it is a clear cut case of contempt of court which don't even need the PP to handle as the judge will find you guilty himself.

    Wrongful arrest? Well they were holding you because you refused co-operate with them, in other words, you ask for it.

    Compensation? I woun't hold my breath. Few years back, there was a case of this businessman who was jail for molesting/raping his maid. After spending time in jail, a lot of money ( he even have to sell his house to fund the case ) and the downfall of his business ( no one around to run the business and the bad rap. cause all his clients to stay away from him ), his name was cleared and was released on the spot. He got nothing.
    Just this year the Min. of Home Affairs reject the notion of even making the AG chambers responsible for failed cases. Maybe in the US but not in Singapore.

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    Of course, if your pictures show all kinds of military facilities, then they will certainly apply to the court to hold you for investigations, and any reasonable judge will allow it. And you probably won't be asked any questions at this stage from the judge, it's just a formality the police have to go through if they want to hold you beyond 48 hours.

    If that's the case, does it matter whether or not you answer any questions? If you denied you are a terrorist, would it matter? If you said you took these pix because you are a military enthusiast, would it matter? No matter what answers you give, I think it wouldn't matter. Because they have enough evidence to suspect that either you are a spy, a terrorist or wannabe. And they would probably use the ISA on you.

    I think of the JI detainees who took videos of Yishun MRT and the US Navy facilities here and ask myself, would it matter if they denied being part of JI. Did it matter whether they answered questions in court. Not a single iota. Because the evidence against them-- the narrated video-- was so strong, how could it matter?

    This is getting way OT.
    Well at least this I do agreed with you.

    Yes, this is getting too much OT think we better stop here.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  5. #125
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    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    if an angmoh taking the picture over there, the staff will definitely says this 'welcome to spore, pls visit our store, we hav better discount for u' . This is what i called GEMs.... & its over liao

    Quote Originally Posted by centuryegg View Post
    Nothing new... some high fashion shops at Paragon are very against photography... the ultimate was when I was taking photos with a Point and Shoot outside paragon. I was standing on the main pavement and taking a photo of a foreign friend. Their shop was just in the background. The staff came out and stood in front of the camera and said no photo taking of the shop. I was like huh???? They didnt leave until I left.... Stood in front of the camera like a police officer
    Last edited by jacquesvile; 8th December 2006 at 05:40 PM.

  6. #126

    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    Lets stop here because obviously there's a lot of supposition going on, and both of us have no actual experiences to relate.

    Quote Originally Posted by yqt View Post
    So going by your quote, if you were in a public place, minding your own business and a policeman walks up to you and ask you what you're doing, you don't have to answer him because you have not done anything unlawful? Even if you've not done anything unlawful, try it and you'll see what happen.

  7. #127
    Senior Member redstone's Avatar
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    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    Quote Originally Posted by centuryegg View Post
    I didnt fear but the thing was she really made sure I couldnt get the photo. Stood in front of the camera blocking the shot. I moved, she moved. and just stared into my eye... I was like huh?? You are high class boutique staff not security guard?! So in the end no matter how I moved she was in shot..... sigh.....
    If I was you, seriously I'll just stand right there, see how long the storekeeper/employee can block me.

    Not going to offend them, but to defend my rights.

  8. #128

    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    Quote Originally Posted by mohgui View Post
    same stupid rules apply to Raffles Hotel too. was there with tripod and DSLR and wanting to shoot the premises. was told cannot do so. asked to see the security manager and was told the bloody same thing. however, we are allowed to shoot without the use of a tripod.

    another classic case of some stupid photography rules
    Bring in the cherry picker!

  9. #129

    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    Haha.. I had a funnier incident.. I've been living in my condo ever since it was built.. the guards had changed numerous times.. anyway, the other time, I decided to bring out the camera and tripod to take pics of the pool.. one of the guards saw me, came up to me, and asked me where I was from and presumably, why I was taking photos.

    I just told him I LIVE here.. (In the back of my mind, I was just thinking why the heck was he even asking me these questions? I've been living here probably even before he became a guard ) My friends and I have always had a neutral-hate relationship with the guards here..

  10. #130
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    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    Quote Originally Posted by lypklypk View Post
    Haha.. I had a funnier incident.. I've been living in my condo ever since it was built.. the guards had changed numerous times.. anyway, the other time, I decided to bring out the camera and tripod to take pics of the pool.. one of the guards saw me, came up to me, and asked me where I was from and presumably, why I was taking photos.

    I just told him I LIVE here.. (In the back of my mind, I was just thinking why the heck was he even asking me these questions? I've been living here probably even before he became a guard ) My friends and I have always had a neutral-hate relationship with the guards here..
    i would said your guard are doing his work at a private area... but those public area.. WTF..

  11. #131

    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    Quote Originally Posted by lypklypk View Post
    Haha.. I had a funnier incident.. I've been living in my condo ever since it was built.. the guards had changed numerous times.. anyway, the other time, I decided to bring out the camera and tripod to take pics of the pool.. one of the guards saw me, came up to me, and asked me where I was from and presumably, why I was taking photos.

    I just told him I LIVE here.. (In the back of my mind, I was just thinking why the heck was he even asking me these questions? I've been living here probably even before he became a guard ) My friends and I have always had a neutral-hate relationship with the guards here..
    May I be allowed to offer my view on the pool issue. Taking photos near a pubic pool is a rather sensitive affair, especially in a hotel or public area. The guard is right to ask some questions because some ppl are very sensitive to photographers when they are in a "lesser-clothe" situation....and of course if there are little children around.
    always the Light, .... always.

  12. #132

    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    Quote Originally Posted by Canonised View Post
    May I be allowed to offer my view on the pool issue. Taking photos near a pubic pool is a rather sensitive affair, especially in a hotel or public area. The guard is right to ask some questions because some ppl are very sensitive to photographers when they are in a "lesser-clothe" situation....and of course if there are little children around.
    Point is, there weren't any people there, at night.. And imagine getting asked in your own home.. I was like

  13. #133
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    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    Quote Originally Posted by centuryegg View Post
    I didnt fear but the thing was she really made sure I couldnt get the photo. Stood in front of the camera blocking the shot. I moved, she moved. and just stared into my eye... I was like huh?? You are high class boutique staff not security guard?! So in the end no matter how I moved she was in shot..... sigh.....
    Since she so like to be in your pictures, pose her picture here for all of us to see leh

  14. #134
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    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    Quote Originally Posted by lypklypk View Post
    Point is, there weren't any people there, at night.. And imagine getting asked in your own home.. I was like
    u never interact with them mah... same like me... they seem so human, u ask those ark gao chiu ji with them 1 to do a photo shoot downstairs, think even nude photography also go ahead...
    Logging Off. "You have 2,631 messages stored, of a total 400 allowed." don't PM me.

  15. #135

    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    Quote Originally Posted by lypklypk View Post
    My friends and I have always had a neutral-hate relationship with the guards here..
    There is this one guard in my condo that is unabearable. He was later fired.

    This can't be a neutral-hate relationship. As resident of a condo, the condo security is there to work for you. Meaning, you are the boss, be it a bit indirect, still you are the boss.
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  16. #136

    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    Quote Originally Posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt View Post
    u never interact with them mah... same like me... they seem so human, u ask those ark gao chiu ji with them 1 to do a photo shoot downstairs, think even nude photography also go ahead...

    Haha.. the guards here no point interacting one.. I either see them 'flirting' with the maids, or they only talk to all those mums and dads..

    And they change every so often..

    Actually, the main reason why my friends and I don't like thea guards, or even the management+landlords for that matter, was because they banned us from playing any ball games.. That was like 5-6 years ago.. we used to defy them alot.. every new batch of guards or manager who came in got the same treatment

    Haha.. but once we grew up, there's just this responsibility issue we all have to look into Oh well.. I'll still get everyone to join in for a game or two one of these days

  17. #137

    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    er.... the incidents here appears to be related to the DSLR or big cams.

    Shoot with camera phones got such problems?

  18. #138

    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    There is this one guard in my condo that is unabearable. He was later fired.
    haha ... were you the cause and the reason why he was fired? ...
    always the Light, .... always.

  19. #139
    Senior Member redstone's Avatar
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    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    Quote Originally Posted by canongrapherL View Post
    er.... the incidents here appears to be related to the DSLR or big cams.

    Shoot with camera phones got such problems?
    Common misconception

    Big camera = sneaky photog who's going to sell your photos to disgrace you
    Private eye
    Someone sent by some company to spy on something/someone
    Terrorist


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    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    Quote Originally Posted by redstone View Post
    Common misconception

    Big camera = sneaky photog who's going to sell your photos to disgrace you
    Private eye
    Someone sent by some company to spy on something/someone
    Terrorist

    same like i bring my 50-500 to zoo & bird park... i take out nia, ppl stare (wah lao, not even 300 f2.8 or 600mm f4 lor)

    but nice is got some kids walk over & say, Nice Camera!
    Logging Off. "You have 2,631 messages stored, of a total 400 allowed." don't PM me.

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