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Thread: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

  1. #61
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    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    It's not that difficult if you stand your ground. I doubt they will manhandle you. And most security "guards" in Singapore are not armed. You don't have to explain your actions to anyone, esp. if you're in a public place.
    This is what can happen if you're on their property:
    you can stand your grounds, guards are mostly not armed and even if they are, they woun't use it in cases like this, but they can chase you out of the property ( you're a visitor/guest and they are the enfocer of the property and thus have the final say ), if you refuse they will hold you and call the police than charge you for transpassing ( ask you to leave and you refuse so you're transpassing ), If you kick up a fuss and cause a commotion, that gives them even more reason to call the police.

    If you're on public property:
    Ther guards can call the police if the building is a gov building / MRT station / Stat Board / etc. If the guards are the police themselves, they can cross the road and question you on the spot. Once I stop across the road from a police station and was making a phone call in my car. The police cross the road and ask what I was doing. I told him that I was making a call and didn't know that I can't stop there. He just told me that it is OK to stop there but they just have to be careful of people stoping near police stations and need to check what they're doing.

    Still think you don't have to answer to anyone esp. if you in a public place? Well if you don't mind the inconvience or taking a risk, go right ahead.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  2. #62

    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    I had a similar experience. But i took a few pictures just before the guards approached me. The 2nd time i went there, i set the appertures before i enter. Went in swiftly, point up, shoot and walk away swiftly...... no problems with that. Heh.

  3. #63
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    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    Quote Originally Posted by noelleong View Post
    What a story just damn unlucky. I had this experience too. I was at an NBA game. I brought in a zoom lens and was stopped from going in. Security said that my cam is TOO PRO. Come on, a normal point and shoot can also zoom up to 200mm. I was really disappointed and it really sucks. I wanted just to go home but since I have paid for 2 seats what the hell. In the end, I have to put back my gears back to my car and bought a $10 disposable Kodak camera. All the photos came out underexposed I am never going back for another game. But then, Tennis and Baseball is OK.
    The NBA is somewhat diff. as they have TV contracts as well as selling images to press and mags. This is a lot of money. I remember reading a few years back that during a game between the Chicago Bulls and the LA lakers, Micheal Jorden ran out of court saving a ball, fell on to the crowd and decided to just stay there, sitting on a chair with the crowd for a while. Many people with P&S took that shot but the pro photographers are the only ones whose images are sharp enough and of high enough resolutation for printing. Only one photographer have a good angle of the whole incident and was paid US$XXXXX/- for his series of images.

    I would love to sneak in a DSLR into an NBA game also, but I need to get the plane ticket first
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  4. #64

    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    Same thing for certain places....like OCH, etc etc....they getting anal bout people going such places to take photos oredi. :P

    ================================================== =========

    Dec 4, 2006
    CAUGHT ON CAMERA:
    Break-ins on state properties
    Most culprits go for the costly copper wires but some loot signs and even trees

    By Ben Nadarajan




    REMOTE CONTROL: Evtec has helped nab 15 culprits since it was engaged in October. Its Paya Lebar command centre relies on patrolling teams and a CCTV system which sends out alerts when movement is detected. -- BRYAN VAN DER BEEK

    FROM old army camps to schools, there are over 100 vacant state-owned properties - a number of which have attracted gangs of burglars.
    In some odd instances, the intruders said they were checking if the sites were haunted.

    In the last two months, the two security firms responsible for guarding such unoccupied buildings have encountered at least 20 intruders.

    The thieves usually make off with copper wires, but they have looted metal signs and even trees.



    GOTCHA!: Evtec's motion-activated cameras captured these images of two trespassers moving about an abandoned building. -- BRYAN VAN DER BEEK

    The vacant sites - which also include police and fire stations and hospitals - are left empty while the Singapore Land Authority (SLA) scouts for new tenants, a process which could take several months or even years.

    The entrances to these properties are padlocked.



    GOTCHA!: Evtec's motion-activated cameras captured these images of two trespassers moving about an abandoned building. -- BRYAN VAN DER BEEK

    In October, the SLA engaged two new security firms - Prime Security Services and Evtec Management Services - to guard the vacant premises.

    Since then, Prime has foiled five burglaries while Evtec helped nab 15 culprits.

    With copper prices having trebled and scrap-metal shops paying about $10 for a kilo of copper wire, most of the break-in thieves go for the wires.

    Many construction sites and public buildings have also been targets of copper looting. In October, thieves made off with 27 copper lightning rods worth $13,500 from the Pasir Panjang Nursery.

    Aluminium prices have also shot up, making window louvres, metal signs on walls and metal rubbish bins tempting targets for robbers.

    The burglars come prepared with tools such as cutters, pliers and gloves. They climb over the gates or cut holes in the fences to squeeze through.

    Prime's manager, Mr Jesu Kumar, said his men even came across a burglar who had removed air-conditioning units from the old Warren Golf and Country Club in Clementi.

    Ms G. Pereira, managing director of Evtec, said thieves have taken sinks and toilet bowls as well. 'They will basically take anything that can fetch them some money,' she said.

    There was an unusual case last month: Three men broke into the old Keat Hong army camp in Choa Chu Kang for its trees.

    Using an electric saw, they had chopped down three trees before they were spotted by a security team from Evtec, which rushed down after the trio were spotted on closed-circuit television.

    Two ran off but the one who was caught came up with a wild tale that they were selling the tree trunks to the zoo.

    Every now and then, thrill-seekers also get caught - many said they were there to check out rumours that the sites were haunted.

    An SLA spokesman said: 'When we come across activities by paranormal groups, we are not in favour of granting them permission to enter our vacant buildings in the interest of their personal safety as the buildings are not lit.'

    The SLA said it takes trespassing on state properties seriously. Trespassers on state land can be jailed for up to six months and fined a maximum of $5,000. The court can also order that the culprit pays for any damage to the property.

    The two security firms rely on technology to guard the vacant sites.

    Evtec does not deploy guards on-site, but relies on patrolling teams and a CCTV system which displays images on a monitor screen when movement is detected on the premises.

    Its command centre in Paya Lebar will then notify the nearest patrol team and call the police as well.

    The surveillance set-up is so sensitive that even rustling leaves or strong winds could activate the CCTV pop-up alert.

    Such a system requires only a few officers to monitor its array of up to 1,000 cameras.

    If anyone tries to cut the wires linked to the CCTV system, the office will be alerted immediately.

    Two groups of thieves did just that but were scared off by responding Evtec guards.

    Evtec has recently added dogs to its patrol teams.

    Prime stations a guard at each of its sites, and complements their presence with a shrill alarm triggered by heat sensors.

    benjamin@sph.com.sg
    One-North Explorers
    | Leave nothing but footprints, take nothing but photos |

  5. #65
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    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    Maybe we should arrange to go in a group. " O pae som " to see who is the unlucky guy to go to one part of the building and start shooting first just to get the guard's attention. While he's "entertaining" the guard, the rest goes in to shoot and quickly leave before the guard returns.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  6. #66
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    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    Quote Originally Posted by yqt View Post
    Talking about France, a photographer friend told me he was in France on holiday when he was at the Eiffel Towers.
    [snip]
    Funny thing here, the Eiffel Tower is a public icon, a tourist attraction, images of it can be found all over the web and millions of tourist have been snapping images of it every year, but if the guard thinks that you look too pro, that you may be able to sell your images, you look suspcious or they just don't like your face, you may be better of just buying a post card

    If you think shooting in SG is bad, try going to France
    The Eiffel Tower is quite notorious in the west actually.
    There've been numerous warnings in the past year about requiring 'property release' forms to be able to take photographs of the tower, specifically at night.
    I think even in the general photography press they warn you off photographing the tower.
    Because the noise is so 'recent' my guess is the French are either re-enforcing an old law or made a new one that basically protected their right to earn from their own photographs of the Tower and not for anyone else.

    'property release' forms are propping up elsewhere too for public / historic and religious buildings.
    my guess is they want their cut of what stock photographers and postcard tog's have been making for years.
    *D700,D2X,D2H,Mamiya*

  7. #67
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    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    Quote Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
    The Eiffel Tower is quite notorious in the west actually.
    There've been numerous warnings in the past year about requiring 'property release' forms to be able to take photographs of the tower, specifically at night.
    I think even in the general photography press they warn you off photographing the tower.
    Because the noise is so 'recent' my guess is the French are either re-enforcing an old law or made a new one that basically protected their right to earn from their own photographs of the Tower and not for anyone else.

    'property release' forms are propping up elsewhere too for public / historic and religious buildings.
    my guess is they want their cut of what stock photographers and postcard tog's have been making for years.
    BINGO!!!! right on the spot !!!

    In fact in some cases it may be cheaper to shoot the Eiffel Tower than to pay for the copyrights over the web.
    Last edited by yqt; 6th December 2006 at 12:23 PM.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  8. #68
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    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    Or, shoot on film. Didn't get kaciau-ed when I did this.


  9. #69
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    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    The "war" has begun........
    Only Sony device mostly, haha!

  10. #70

    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    Photogrphers, especially us amateurs with no intention to make money off the pictures we took, must stand up and exercise our rights to shoot in public places.
    deadpoet
    my portfolio

  11. #71

    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    Question: How about camera handphone that we brought in and snap ?

  12. #72
    vince123123
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    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    I think if you venture overseas, you may wish to exercise some caution especially since you never know what local laws/customs/gangs/black ops police they have - and you are always at a disadvantage.

    However, locally, in Singapore, I will not hesitate to take any security guard who oversteps his authority to task. In fact, I have already taken a few to task and they have all quietly slunk away with their tails in between their legs.

    At the end of the day, be aware of what rights you have, but at the same time, respect the rights of others. Do not (as some security guards do), infringe the rights of others in the name of protecting your own rights (such as when guards stop you from taking photos of their building from the road to try to "protect" their building).

    I've been saying this for a while, but do remember that if you are in an area outside the jurisdiction of the person challenging you, he cannot do anything to you. EVEN if you are inside the jurisdiction of the person who is challenging you (e.g. by a security guard of the building and you are in the building), do not let him get away with more than he is entitled to. In most cases, all he can do is to ask you to leave. He cannot detain you, snatch your camera, demand you delete your film, etc without risking committing an offence himself and causing more problems to his owner/management.

  13. #73

    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    When guard comes, everyone can run off like this
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96OljGZapv4
    It is the camera, not the photographer.
    my flickr - adamloh.com

  14. #74
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    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    Quote Originally Posted by alwayschampion View Post
    Question: How about camera handphone that we brought in and snap ?
    Just apply the army rule lor: do whatever you want, just don't get caught.

  15. #75

    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    seems like i am not the only person who got chased away for taking photograhs... singapore getting more and more restrictive...

  16. #76
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    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    Photogrphers, especially us amateurs with no intention to make money off the pictures we took, must stand up and exercise our rights to shoot in public places.
    I have done that. I took a picture of a condo and was chased off by the guard, I just walk out to the main road outside and start shooting again. He came and ask me to stop and I told him that since I'm outside of the property, he have no right to stop me. His supervisor came along and agreed with me and ask me nicely if he can have a look at the image and what I'm shooting it for. I told him that I'm shooting for a friend who wants to sell a unit in the estate. The supervisor thank me and walk off.

    It is not wrong to shoot in public place so long as the place you're shooting in and your subject are not of any sensitive nature ie: shoot a police station from across the road

    You sure that the image you took today, with firm conviction that you're not going to sell it for a profit, will not be sold if someone were to offer you very good money for it some time later? Even if you can resist, how do you convince the guards about it. Even if the whole world knows that you are of such high moral standing that you will not sell your images, how can anyone be sure that the rest of the " Photogrphers, especially us amateurs " will be the same?
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  17. #77

    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    Possible to make the shot quickly before anyone confront you?

  18. #78

    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    I don't care what other photographers do. If I am standing on solid grounds, I will not give way. I have no idea what I will do in 10 years. Neither does the security guard nor the management company of the property. My intention is not to use the picture commercially. And if I did, please come sue me for damages. However, please do not assume I am going to violate copyrights.
    deadpoet
    my portfolio

  19. #79

    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    If you're on someone else's property, of course you have to follow their instructions. I'm not advocating breaking the law by trespassing per se. There's a difference between standing up for your rights and breaking the law. There's no point going to jail or paying a fine for photography. However, I doubt the police are going to come for every complaint made regarding unauthorised photography. And as Vince123123 said, if they manhandle you, they may be committing offences themselves. That said, one should be smart about it-- if someone breaks your bones or your head, your rights are no longer important.

    But if you're on public property, they can't do anything to you. Your example proves the rule-- they didn't arrest you, did they? No one can fault the police for being extra cautious in this day and age, but they did make it clear they did not have the right to stop you from making a phone call, just that they were doing their job in checking all suspicious characters.

    Is there a law against taking pix of sensitive installations, such as military facilities, etc? I don't think so, but I think anyone who does so will certainly be "invited" to tea with the men in white, even if they stand on a public road to do so. Lets not be stupid in trying to stand up for photographers rights. Even if there is no specific law, there is ISA in Singapore, that's something which most free societies don't have, but that's another story for another time.

    Quote Originally Posted by yqt View Post
    This is what can happen if you're on their property:
    you can stand your grounds, guards are mostly not armed and even if they are, they woun't use it in cases like this, but they can chase you out of the property ( you're a visitor/guest and they are the enfocer of the property and thus have the final say ), if you refuse they will hold you and call the police than charge you for transpassing ( ask you to leave and you refuse so you're transpassing ), If you kick up a fuss and cause a commotion, that gives them even more reason to call the police.

    If you're on public property:
    Ther guards can call the police if the building is a gov building / MRT station / Stat Board / etc. If the guards are the police themselves, they can cross the road and question you on the spot. Once I stop across the road from a police station and was making a phone call in my car. The police cross the road and ask what I was doing. I told him that I was making a call and didn't know that I can't stop there. He just told me that it is OK to stop there but they just have to be careful of people stoping near police stations and need to check what they're doing.

    Still think you don't have to answer to anyone esp. if you in a public place? Well if you don't mind the inconvience or taking a risk, go right ahead.
    Last edited by waileong; 6th December 2006 at 06:12 PM.

  20. #80

    Default Re: NO PHOTOGRAPHY - Wheelock Place

    Photographers' rights is not about money. It's just about the right to take pictures. For $$ and copyright issues, please refer to the Copyright Act threads. Vince123123 has given very salient advice there.

    Quote Originally Posted by yqt View Post
    You sure that the image you took today, with firm conviction that you're not going to sell it for a profit, will not be sold if someone were to offer you very good money for it some time later? Even if you can resist, how do you convince the guards about it. Even if the whole world knows that you are of such high moral standing that you will not sell your images, how can anyone be sure that the rest of the " Photogrphers, especially us amateurs " will be the same?

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