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Thread: Full body portrait with shallow DOF?

  1. #41
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: Full body portrait with shallow DOF?

    Quote Originally Posted by kzone View Post
    1 & 3 seems to be inversely related, if long focal length then need to stand further away.. & if stand close than need wide angle... hmm.. how ah?
    try it and see, shoot at max focal lenght of your lens
    one shot at 5m away and another shot at the minimum focusing distance
    everything else constant

    btw this shot below, 500mm at min focus distance at f8


  2. #42

    Default Re: Full body portrait with shallow DOF?

    DOF is not all that matters when you trying to get your subject isolated from the background.

    A few more factors:

    1. Distance between background and subject

    2. Angle of view (or focal length) - telephoto have narrower angle and capture less of the background and tends to isolate the subject better.

    3. Aperture used - this affects the DOF and the amount of out-of-focus blurring.

    4. Lighting & composition

  3. #43

    Default Re: Full body portrait with shallow DOF?

    Quote Originally Posted by kzone View Post
    Ic... so a 300mm f/2.8 is a gd lens ro got bokeh effect but u have to stand far far away?
    uh. you do know how heavy and expensive those are right?

    but yes.

    c.f. http://photo.net/photo/nikon/300-2.8.html

  4. #44

    Default Re: Full body portrait with shallow DOF?

    Quote Originally Posted by lastboltnut View Post
    Hi, Clockunder, I think you have made a mistake here. A 50mm lens remains a 50mm lens when come to DOF calculation, it doesn't change with the Crop Factor (CF). Only Field Of View (FOV) changes with CF. So, when you calculate the DOF for DSLR, use the actual lens focal length....in this case 50mm, not 50xCF...
    Yes, I did used actual focal length in all calculations.

    DOF is a perception issue and is it's related to Circle of Confusion (i.e. how much the actual image needs to be enlarged to a certain picture viewing size). The sensor size played a part in determining what the DOF is.

    This has been extensively discussed recently in this forum.

    In the earlier post, I used the actual focal length and only adjusted the subject distance in order to maintain the same composition. For e.g. To have about the same composition as 85mm on full frame standing 5m away, a 1.6x crop factor camera would need to stand about 5m away. To maintain the same composition with 85mm on a 1.6x crop factor camera would need to stand about 8m away.

    You may want to verify the figures.

    http://www.dofmaster.com/faq.html

  5. #45

    Default Re: Full body portrait with shallow DOF?

    Quote Originally Posted by oneheart View Post
    so sorry, just to clarify.. u said shorter focal length will give DEEPER DOF, so the longer i go, like 200mm, i will get a SHALLOWER DOF?
    If you use 200m, you would need to stand about 18m away in order to get a full body portrait (assuming you're using portrait framing on an APS sensor DSLR). If landscape framing, you would need to stand about 25m away). If it's a portrait session, you would really need to shout very very loud to the subject for him/her to hear you.

    Moreover, at F/2.8 (which is usual biggest aperture available), your DOF shooting at 200mm 18m away would be 0.86m on a 1.6x crop DSLR......more than double the 0.36m on 85mm F/1.8 standing at about 5m away on a full frame camera.

    If yours is a much cheaper 70-200 with a smaller max. aperture, then the DOF would be even larger. For e.g. at F/4 200mm, the DOF would be 1.22m shooting at 18m away.

    Also a 70-200mm F/2.8 is very much heavier than a 85mm F/1.8 and is tiring to carry for a long portrait session.

    However, at 200mm, distances between foreground and background would be pullled to look much closer and there is a very much narrower field of view (compared to 85mm. This helps you to isolate the subject from the background). This sometimes give a nice looking bokeh if the lens is capable of good bokeh and the background is quite far away and not cluttered .

    Because of the above, 200mm is usually used to cover some events instead of portrait session.

    Ways to isolate the subject from the background :
    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=233598
    Last edited by Clockunder; 23rd November 2006 at 09:10 PM.

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Full body portrait with shallow DOF?



    Shot with a Sigma 70-200 f2.8 at 200mm f2.8.

    I was really really far from them and the rail way track is stretches even furthur, as far as my eye can see. What I wanted to show with this picture is that if you want shallow DOF for full body length portraits, you'll want to use either a long long long lens, or have a background that stretches really really far away

  7. #47

    Default Re: Full body portrait with shallow DOF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd View Post


    Shot with a Sigma 70-200 f2.8 at 200mm f2.8.

    I was really really far from them and the rail way track is stretches even furthur, as far as my eye can see. What I wanted to show with this picture is that if you want shallow DOF for full body length portraits, you'll want to use either a long long long lens, or have a background that stretches really really far away
    You were probably about 25m away?

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Full body portrait with shallow DOF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clockunder View Post
    You were probably about 25m away?
    Sorry, I don't remember the exact distance. But 25 meters is a good guess. I didn't measure the distance, only remember walking furthur and furthur away from them trying to get a full body portrait... lol!

  9. #49

    Default Re: Full body portrait with shallow DOF?

    Quote Originally Posted by kzone View Post
    Ic... so a 300mm f/2.8 is a gd lens ro got bokeh effect but u have to stand far far away?
    For 300mm, you would need to stand 25m-27m away in order to get a full body portrait, assuming you're using portrait frame. If you use landscape frame, you would need to stand nearly 35-m40m away.

  10. #50

    Default Re: Full body portrait with shallow DOF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd View Post
    Sorry, I don't remember the exact distance. But 25 meters is a good guess. I didn't measure the distance, only remember walking furthur and furthur away from them trying to get a full body portrait... lol!
    According to rough estimates, you would need to be about 25m away to get full body at 200mm on landscape framing.

    Do you know the 2 of them?

    I was thinking why don't you shoot them walking facing you so that we can see their facial expression.

    Happy and/or shy or sad and/or loving?

    But then, now it's all up to our imagination. May be it's a good thing.
    Last edited by Clockunder; 23rd November 2006 at 08:51 PM.

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Full body portrait with shallow DOF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clockunder View Post
    According to rough estimates, you would need to be about 25m away to get full body at 200mm on landscape framing.

    Do you know the 2 of them?

    I was thinking why don't you shoot them walking facing you so that we can see their facial expression.

    Happy and/or shy or sad and/or loving?

    But then, now it's all up to our imagination. May be it's a good thing.
    They are my friends. This was shot for a school project

    The female doesn't like her photo taken and agreed to help me out only after much persistant begging / pleading / coaxing / cajoling

    On a full frame camera / 35mm film camera, I think it would be easier to get a shallower DOF.

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    Default Re: Full body portrait with shallow DOF?

    Quote Originally Posted by oneheart View Post
    Hi, i tried to shoot a full body portrait with my canon EF 50mm f1.8 lens but could not achieve a shallow DOF. I hope to isolate the person fr the background. Can anyone advise me how to do it? Do i need a long lens (eg. 70-300mm)?
    Why not posting your photo for us to have a look? May not be the DOF problem.

  13. #53
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    Default Re: Full body portrait with shallow DOF?

    That seems like soft focus rather than bokeh..?

    For soft focus, the further the radial distance from a "selected center of focus" on the image, the blurer it is.

    For bokeh, the object of interest will be in focus, regardless of which part of the image area it occupies (assuming the entire object is within the DOF), while the background is OOF.

    I guess no PP can bring out the effect well unless the object is circular in nature?


    Quote Originally Posted by DeSwitch View Post
    the bokeh will also depends on the quality of the lens used, what yr BG is. With a messy BG, you wont get nice bokeh.

    http://deswitch.multiply.com/photos/photo/62/46

    only used Picasa to get this effect. i dont shoot models. more of a nature shooter so those gurus please dont attack me for poor shots ok. Just want to point out that post processing can bring out the effect too.

  14. #54
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    Default Re: Full body portrait with shallow DOF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd View Post


    Shot with a Sigma 70-200 f2.8 at 200mm f2.8.

    I was really really far from them and the rail way track is stretches even furthur, as far as my eye can see. What I wanted to show with this picture is that if you want shallow DOF for full body length portraits, you'll want to use either a long long long lens, or have a background that stretches really really far away

    OT a bit, where is this place? I'm searching for a railway track shot. TIA.

    Can some gurus gives some pointer on how to achieve nice creamy BG for full body potriats. May need to use those technic this sunday..hee

  15. #55
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    Default Re: Full body portrait with shallow DOF?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeSwitch View Post
    OT a bit, where is this place? I'm searching for a railway track shot. TIA.

    Can some gurus gives some pointer on how to achieve nice creamy BG for full body potriats. May need to use those technic this sunday..hee
    post #34

    choose location well
    bg must be far away from subject
    bg must also not be too busy otherwise not so creamy

  16. #56
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    Default Re: Full body portrait with shallow DOF?

    Ok, so long as you use 50mm for calculation, not 80mm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clockunder View Post
    Yes, I did used actual focal length in all calculations.

    DOF is a perception issue and is it's related to Circle of Confusion (i.e. how much the actual image needs to be enlarged to a certain picture viewing size). The sensor size played a part in determining what the DOF is.

    This has been extensively discussed recently in this forum.

    In the earlier post, I used the actual focal length and only adjusted the subject distance in order to maintain the same composition. For e.g. To have about the same composition as 85mm on full frame standing 5m away, a 1.6x crop factor camera would need to stand about 5m away. To maintain the same composition with 85mm on a 1.6x crop factor camera would need to stand about 8m away.

    You may want to verify the figures.

    http://www.dofmaster.com/faq.html

  17. #57
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    Default Re: Full body portrait with shallow DOF?

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    post #34

    choose location well
    bg must be far away from subject
    bg must also not be too busy otherwise not so creamy
    Thanks Sifu

  18. #58
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    Default Re: Full body portrait with shallow DOF?

    Quote Originally Posted by oneheart View Post
    shallow DOF != better bokeh. Shallow DOF does not equal better bokeh because it depends on ur background?
    No... What I meant was Bokeh is the Quality of the Out Of Focus areas in the picture, and not a matter of how blur is the Out Of Focus area in the picture. You can see this most easily when you shoot for example a portrait with trees behind and where the light streaming through the leaves forms highlights distinctive to the lens and its various aperture...

    Here are some samples of nice bokeh that I like, hehe...



    And here is a full body portrait...

    Last edited by Gunjack; 24th November 2006 at 09:31 PM.

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