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Thread: Points about Photography Business

  1. #21

    Default Re: Points about Photography Business

    onz lah.. lemee know when u wan to drop by my studio..
    yur time also flexible rite?

  2. #22

    Default Re: Points about Photography Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Will03 View Post
    onz lah.. lemee know when u wan to drop by my studio..
    yur time also flexible rite?
    best! will pm u. I not free till mid jan.
    Gallery | Facebook Page Spreading the Good photography.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Points about Photography Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Will03 View Post
    onz lah.. lemee know when u wan to drop by my studio..
    yur time also flexible rite?
    wow... i wanna go see too... can?

  4. #24
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Points about Photography Business

    Hi CYRN,

    Thanks for the great efforts, you have compile a great list help many others.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
    www.benjaminloo.com | iStock portfolio

  5. #25

    Default Re: Points about Photography Business

    hi there. dun mind if i help you add some technical stuff i have learnt.

    morning at bride's place. perhaps a 24-70 will be enough. if have the time can use 50 or 85 to capture the expressions of the bride or a wide angle to get the shoes/gown and the bride together. mirror shots are good to try out too. perhaps one with a calendar to show their wedding day.

    be sure to capture many candid moments (if you prefer candid) of the bride laughing over jokes or whatsoever, that is only if she is accomdating enough.

    when groom comes 24-70 will be good idea. make sure lens dun kenna condensation if bride's apartment is air conditioned or whatsoever. make sure stand at correct position when the "small little boy" opens the door and whatsoever.

    also. candid moments if the sisters decide to play tricks on the groom.

    once inside be sure to capture the "kissing" of bride. if accomdating enough can always ask them to hold for you to shoot. or else just have to act fast and be ready pre focussed already.

    if the car is small. a use of a WA may be essential if you are following in their car capturing the 2 of them behind.

    make sure lens dun kenna condensation once you leave the car.

    if is chinese tradition, there should be someone throwing petals in front. try not to block her way.

    tea ceremony and pray to ancestors, make sure can capture good angle during tea ceremony. ask them to move if the place too cramed and explain to them why, cannot take everyone and stuff like that la. try not to say the room too small. some parents may not be happy. then for the capturing of tea ceremony it will be to the photog's preference whether to take normally. aka. wide angle everyone inside or do some journalistic shots. artistic shots of them passing the tea over or the groom's mother passing the bride some jewellery and stuff like that. a use of a WA 2.8 may be good. like a 16-35 2.8 sometimes brings out the correct mood. 24-70 may be too narrow. just my 2cents

    from my experience, my day will end here. will have some time to go home and edit morning shots to put as slideshow later during evening time.

    be sure to ask the groom the location of the suite room and arrive early if possible. make sure slideshow set up good to go before start shooting or whatever.

    take a few more shots inside the suite and perhaps can ask the couple to pose and stuff like that.

    for dinner my setup will be a WA as main and a 50 1.8 for mood stuff. (no $$$ to get 85 )

    before the dinner start can be at the reception to take a few candid shots of the brothers and sister. most likely the groom will be there. from my experience the bride will be at the suite room waiting for 1st march in.

    be sure about the march in. can always instruct the couple in a friendly way. like tell them to look at you while they walk in and do it slowly and stuff. most will listen. since the photographer is regarded as the one with the most experience in this field.

    the first one will be the cutting of cake. just remember to ask them to look. can choose to do shots from different perspectives. up to personal style and if couple appreciate or not.

    can do a few shots before 2nd march in, perhaps at the lift or something. 50 1.8 or 85 1.8 comes into good use here with natural lighting.

    after yum seng will be group table shots. will be very effective if have assistant to help to direct the guests to get optimal location while photog can check exposure. (imo important because is grp table shot. one shot one kill) machine gun to prevent blinking of eyes. lol.

    after grp table can station outside to get ready for couple to thank the guest and stuff.

    after that mostly done. thank and congratulate.

    during the entire process i find the most important is to be alert of whatever is happening around you. there are some moments which can only be captured in a candid fashion. so be alert. no matter how tired you are before or whatsoever. must have the professional look there lor.

    be sure to invest in some good shoes and nice black socks. so can take off easily when reaching the repsective houses. or to take off shoes and shoot big grp photos inside restaurant with chair.

    lastly. some mints will help also

    just my 2cents. hope it helps.
    random equipment.
    where are my primes?

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Points about Photography Business

    Nice of you to share your experiences too.

    so far i only did a couple of shoots for fun for friends, the 17-40 seems better for me, 24-70 abit tight after the crop factor on my cam.

    but yeah.. candids are important, most people nowadays seems to prefer those over "posed" shots.. ^^

  7. #27

    Default Re: Points about Photography Business

    Looks like there are many professionals here. Maybe the pros can organise a seminar just purely on Wedding Photography, how about that?

  8. #28

    Default Re: Wedding Photography: Getting those perfect shots

    Hi, wanzw. Thanks for your contribution. This thread definately need contributions from everyone like yourself to be more comprehensive. I totally left out the past of praying to ancestors.

    But I've avoided recommendation of what hardware to use because it's up to the photographer's style. Different photographer have different preference as in ~Arcanic~ case. Some would go for Full Frame and a all-in-one zoom lens and other would go for fast primes to achieve DOF.

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN View Post
    Hardware is only as good as how it can suit your style of photography, personally I've used E5700 to cover weddings before.
    Gallery | Facebook Page Spreading the Good photography.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Wedding Photography: Getting those perfect shots

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN View Post
    Hi, wanzw. Thanks for your contribution. This thread definately need contributions from everyone like yourself to be more comprehensive. I totally left out the past of praying to ancestors.

    But I've avoided recommendation of what hardware to use because it's up to the photographer's style. Different photographer have different preference as in ~Arcanic~ case. Some would go for Full Frame and a all-in-one zoom lens and other would go for fast primes to achieve DOF.
    no problem. cant help it. i am a hardware addict.
    random equipment.
    where are my primes?

  10. #30

    Default Re: Wedding Photography: Getting those perfect shots

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN View Post
    *I missed this* Business risks -
    Considerations have to be given to "favorable" or "unfavorable" dates. ie double 7th lunar month in 2006. Most importantly risk leading to loss of income for extended period.
    This may not be significant enough to affect your [Chinese] wedding market in Singapore but elsewhere esp Brunei and Malaysia, there's the muslim fasting month in addition to the double 7th lunar months in 2006 that were revenue breakers. During a fasting month, the muslim community fast and there's no entertainment or food for an entire month hence, a lot of events get postponed and so forth.

  11. #31

    Default Re: Points about Photography Business

    I would like to thank CYRN for sharing the wedding tips with us..

    Personally I think that his tips were really helpful....

    For me, I am going to take my first wedding shoot for a friend in a couple of weeks time and I am really nervous about it thou I am only the secondary photographer.

    Sigh.. then again, this wedding is a great excuse for me to buy a flash and len....


  12. #32

    Wink Re: Wedding Photography: Getting those perfect shots

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN View Post
    *forgot this also*

    Final note:

    If you intend to shoot someone's wedding. Do it with all the professionalism and flair you have. It's repeated till death already... it's once in a life time experience. DSLRs pics are meant to be post processed, shoot-burn and deliver just shows your lack of respect to both the couples and the craft of photography.

    If you have confidence to cover a wedding and deliver the above, charge professionally. Else, just do it for free.

    Even if you are charging $1 or $10K. You owe the couple the above professionalism in your deliverables at least.
    Thanks CYRN for leaving no stone unturned in the business of wedding photography. Good reading for aspiring professionals who are seriously venturing into this field for the first time. However, those who are dabbling or experimenting with wedding photography are likely gonna be freaked out by wealth of information. In all honesty, you can only read so much before the gravity of reality hits you on the first day of the job.

    I feel it's also appropriate to include here just some of the problems you're likely to experience first hand as photographers continue to build their wedding portfolio to include as many different kinds of clients as possible, including freebie weddings for family relatives. I hope this never happens to anyone but because it happened to me twice and also to my associates, I'll include a link here for some interesting and controversial reading.

    I have realised one very critical aspect of shooting a wedding in a roomful of relatives. It's very distracting, everyone wants to talk to you and gets in the way of "work" especially the elderly whom you cannot just ignore or walk away! In such intimate and relaxed atmosphere, it's difficult to be serious and stay focused. I prefer to walk into a client's residence and work with people I meet for the first time. If you can understand this, you'll quickly appreciate the problems I encountered.

    All the best!

  13. #33

    Default Re: Points about Photography Business

    Quote Originally Posted by wanzw View Post
    tea ceremony and pray to ancestors, make sure can capture good angle during tea ceremony. ask them to move if the place too cramed and explain to them why, cannot take everyone and stuff like that la. try not to say the room too small. some parents may not be happy. then for the capturing of tea ceremony it will be to the photog's preference whether to take normally. aka. wide angle everyone inside or do some journalistic shots. artistic shots of them passing the tea over or the groom's mother passing the bride some jewellery and stuff like that. a use of a WA 2.8 may be good. like a 16-35 2.8 sometimes brings out the correct mood. 24-70 may be too narrow. just my 2cents
    Most of the Pang Teh sessions I've shot I would get asked if I would like the sofas rearranged for better vantage points and lighting etc. Most of us shoot with 1.6/1.5 crop bodies so it's useful to have ultra wide lens in the event you find yourself shooting a tight room. The 10-22mm on my 20D workd beautifully giving wide journalistic perspective.

    Tea ceremony is more about the relatives than the couple. A good tip here would be to ask and remind the relatives sitting down to have one of them sitted slighting in front of the other so that you capture both of them throughout the sessions. In the absence of a wedding planner or assistance to remind them, we have to - they are too busy and stressed out to know what we expect them to.

  14. #34

    Default Re: Points about Photography Business

    Thanks everyone for sharing these wonderful tips

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Points about Photography Business

    This is very enlightening. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN View Post
    Thanks everyone for the positive response. It's very encouraging as I might be stepping on a minefield here.

    nicholas68: I'll put up something about how to price your assignments sometime end of Jan... need to sort a few other things first.

    forward: Materials are all over the place if only one takes the effort to seek them. What I've done is consolidate them here and hope that this will be a stepping stone for enterprising photographers to setup proper business and not to de-rate the market... competitive pricing is allowed, but destructive pricing..is just destructive.

    Will03: Onz bo? Tot you already BZ liao.

    hongwei: Dun get it wrongly, if you are not comfortable, dun even do it for free unless you are approached unsoliciated. You might do a disservice to the couple if you miss something important. But opportunities exist to "help" as a backup/secondary photographer or just particiapte in the event as a brother would give you ample opportunity to observe the wedding customs..etc.

    I'll follow up on the DSLR thingy later too. Lets just put it in the way that DSLRs pics is never optimised straight out of the cam most notably being less "sharp" as compared to P&S. While the couples might not appriciate it, IMHO, you are only doing a disservice to the craft of photography if you produce anything less.

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Points about Photography Business

    nicholas68: I'll put up something about how to price your assignments sometime end of Jan... need to sort a few other things first.

    thank

  17. #37

    Default Re: Points about Photography Business

    Quote Originally Posted by nicholas68 View Post
    nicholas68: I'll put up something about how to price your assignments sometime end of Jan... need to sort a few other things first.

    thank
    Heeheehe..slipped.

    *disclaimer* What I put here is a very simplistic way to calculate the rates you should charge. It's only a very rough guide.

    As for how to price your photography business. You can follow a few benchmarks.

    1. How much are your peers earning per year. For eg, if my peers are earning $60K-$70K pa (inclusive of bonus and benifits). That works out to be $5K-$6K per month. So if you are able to secure 5 or 6 assignments you can then charge $1K per assignment.

    2. Market rate. To understand market rate, you also have to understand the type of client base you are targeting. The current base starts at about $200 for "students" price up to the $400-$800 band where freelancer with portfolios should be charging. $800-$1.2K is where income earners should be charging (of course being income it also implies your skills and standard is there). $1.2K and above... if you are already charging at this rate, you should be contributing to this thread instead. Then you have to make sure you do the corresponding number of assignments per month to ensure your profitability after taking away your expenses.

    3. Cost analysis method. All things depreciates, especially your PC and your cam body. For such items I tag it with 2 years depreciation and for items such as lenses and other accessories, I tag it to 5 years. Add your capital cost to your average expenses per month and add the amount you want to save. Then you divied them to the average number of jobs you can shoot each month. This will tell you how much to charge per job depending on how many deals you can close.

    4. Charge up to what your client is willing to pay. It's basically upping your price until you find that your client is not willing to pay. Then you take a step back. Hold your pricing until you get sufficent clients then up your price again.

    The above idea is to price services so that capital cost can be recovered and are suitable only for those whom seeks to profit from photography business. If are not $$$ bound, then the above may not be applicable. Even if you are a student and your setup is given to you, then your cost is effectively $0. Since your peers are also not earning. Theoretically there is no need to charge at all... right?... it's actually wrong... cuz although it not your(student) cost it's still parent's cost (your school fees, pocket money, expenses..etc), there's no free lunch.

    want more details... see my sig, I can give you tuition

    Gallery | Facebook Page Spreading the Good photography.

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Points about Photography Business

    cyrn,

    thanx a mill for a very insightful contri on the subject. i do have a simple question though, once all said and done for the wedding, how many recommended showcase ( the winner pics with PP ) pics that's eventually to be compiled in an album(s)? what's the typical size?

  19. #39

    Default Re: Points about Photography Business

    Quote Originally Posted by krazewerks View Post
    cyrn,

    thanx a mill for a very insightful contri on the subject. i do have a simple question though, once all said and done for the wedding, how many recommended showcase ( the winner pics with PP ) pics that's eventually to be compiled in an album(s)? what's the typical size?
    I'm afraid that's beyond me to answer. So far, I don't print. Only give softcopy and mabbe a VCD.
    Gallery | Facebook Page Spreading the Good photography.

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Points about Photography Business

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN View Post
    Heeheehe..slipped.

    *disclaimer* What I put here is a very simplistic way to calculate the rates you should charge. It's only a very rough guide.

    As for how to price your photography business. You can follow a few benchmarks.

    1. How much are your peers earning per year. For eg, if my peers are earning $60K-$70K pa (inclusive of bonus and benifits). That works out to be $5K-$6K per month. So if you are able to secure 5 or 6 assignments you can then charge $1K per assignment.

    2. Market rate. To understand market rate, you also have to understand the type of client base you are targeting. The current base starts at about $200 for "students" price up to the $400-$800 band where freelancer with portfolios should be charging. $800-$1.2K is where income earners should be charging (of course being income it also implies your skills and standard is there). $1.2K and above... if you are already charging at this rate, you should be contributing to this thread instead. Then you have to make sure you do the corresponding number of assignments per month to ensure your profitability after taking away your expenses.

    3. Cost analysis method. All things depreciates, especially your PC and your cam body. For such items I tag it with 2 years depreciation and for items such as lenses and other accessories, I tag it to 5 years. Add your capital cost to your average expenses per month and add the amount you want to save. Then you divied them to the average number of jobs you can shoot each month. This will tell you how much to charge per job depending on how many deals you can close.

    4. Charge up to what your client is willing to pay. It's basically upping your price until you find that your client is not willing to pay. Then you take a step back. Hold your pricing until you get sufficent clients then up your price again.

    The above idea is to price services so that capital cost can be recovered and are suitable only for those whom seeks to profit from photography business. If are not $$$ bound, then the above may not be applicable. Even if you are a student and your setup is given to you, then your cost is effectively $0. Since your peers are also not earning. Theoretically there is no need to charge at all... right?... it's actually wrong... cuz although it not your(student) cost it's still parent's cost (your school fees, pocket money, expenses..etc), there's no free lunch.

    want more details... see my sig, I can give you tuition

    thank, let me know when you are free. i will buy you a cup of coffee...

    nicholas
    96705712

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