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Thread: Suzuki Coffee Moments - Photo Competition

  1. #21
    Senior Member wrx_sti_22b's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suzuki Coffee Moments - Photo Competition

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman77 View Post
    somemore got to buy kopi powder ...

    "1. Entries are to be submitted in CD-ROMs together with any empty pack of Suzuki Coffee (200g)."
    Yah loh, still got to buy their product...
    Leaving Pentax, selling off whole system, nothing goes to waste.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Suzuki Coffee Moments - Photo Competition

    Really, what's the arguement here?
    People who want to join the competition will still join the competition because they think that it's fair for them. People who think that it's unfair, will just boycott it. There will be those who thinks it's unfair but still take part anyway. But please don't accuse the organisers of exploitation because it's not. They haven't done anything to force people to take part, and anyone who's taking part should have already read the T&C and agreed.

    The example that CAnD gave, it's not exactly true that it's unfair for the other 97 participants. Even if the winning works are to be chosen randomly, the copyright that they give up is in exchange for the chance that they might win. Taken to the extreme, it's the same reason why you still have to pay for a lottery ticket. When the winning entries are chosen according to the participants' merit, it's still a matter of chance whether there's someone else who's better than you.

    I'm a person who believes in artisic copyrights but sometimes you have to stop and think, how much is your picture worth? In the case of this competition, the organisers have already offered a price, that's the prize money. It's up to you whether you want to take this price or not. For $300, if they really wanted, they could have easily gotten a CD full of stock pictures of people drinking coffee anyway. Professional stock photography isn't cheap, but generic stock pictures are. If place too high a value on your copyrights, you will never be able to get it out, because no one will be able to afford it.
    Last edited by Prismatic; 17th November 2006 at 04:12 AM.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Suzuki Coffee Moments - Photo Competition

    It is good that someone HighLight this issue so that any amateur or newbie or enthusiast
    is aware of losing their copyright if they submit their photos for competition.
    It is not just a matter of how much our photo is worth.



    Quote Originally Posted by Prismatic View Post
    Really, what's the arguement here?....
    QUOTE...

    The terms and condition should change to... "Any image submitted will be copyright of its original owner,
    if images was used by Suzuki Coffee will be properly credited accordingly."

    "for every submission to release their copyright is unfair
    for winning entries to release their copyright is fair"

    "....pay $300 for first prize and still want to hold rights to all pictures ah??? ...."

  4. #24

    Default Re: Suzuki Coffee Moments - Photo Competition

    Quote Originally Posted by unseen View Post
    you're right, my 1st line left out a "not"

    Otherwise. If you read my post, I'm saying that no.9 is fair enough given the target audience.

    Suppose you decide to participate, you didn't win, are you in any better/worse position should the rights remain solely with you, or with the organizer?

    Are you even sure that the rights of your photos are worth even a single cent, that it's unfair for the organizers to be using your photos whatever way they like?

    If your rights of photos are worth as much as you think, then you wouldn't be looking at this competition. You wouldn't even bother.

    I agree that some hobbyists produce photos better than alot of (local) professionals, and highly likely those guys would find the terms unfair. However there are a few multi-thousand dollar competitions going on of even greater prestige, so why would those fellas come bother with this small competition? For those hobbyists who don't know of any other competitions than those posted, it's a case of caveat emptor.

    Why don't you guys go complain that to some of the MO holders that their prices are unfair, because it's cheaper (better) elsewhere locally? Or some of the 2nd hand sellers are basically robbers, trying to sell their few year old items practically at prices of brand new ones?
    There's alot more of these people for you to talk about unfair than competitions.
    Wah...bro, what have you been going through, man, tough day??



    I think as long as Suzuki does not use the photographs submitted for any commercial use, then it'll be just like sharing photos online, no harm.

    However, if not so, as they have stated such as 300dpi, and owning the right, definitely is some kind of shameless strategy to get free, and possibly quality photographs.
    Last edited by photographique; 18th November 2006 at 05:10 PM.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Suzuki Coffee Moments - Photo Competition

    Quote Originally Posted by photographique View Post
    Wah...bro, what have you been going through, man, tough day??



    I think as long as Suzuki does not use the photographs submitted for any commercial use, then it'll be just like sharing photos online, no harm.

    However, if not so, as they have stated such as 300dpi, and owning the right, definitely is some kind of shameless strategy to get free, and possibly quality photographs.
    LOL tough day, perhaps.. but I'm not far off the mark. Fact is, most of the people here won't even get their photos published even if they offer it free. As for them stating stuff like 300dpi, you should know that they know nuts about images. XD even a 100x100 image can be 300dpi image..

    As mentioned, it's cheaper to just go buy those well done royalty free stock images. Most of those stock images are of MUCH HIGHER (artistic/technicality) quality than 95% of what you've seen here in this forum. In fact you can even pay peanuts for generic stock photos. For exampl, it's SGD$250 for 750 images of the choice @ www.shutterstock.com, all carefully/professionally done up/cleaned up etc, and you get to choose what you want and what you don't. That's 750 HIGH QUALITY images for anyone who pays...

    Isn't it sad that most photographers here know they're not good enough, and most probably in the non-winner list, that they worry about their rights to their non-winning photos? Haven't they realised that for a low level competition, if they can't win, it's likely that their photos are worth nothing anyway. As in, no one else would even pay them a cent for that photo because, there are definitely better photographers out there.
    Last edited by unseen; 18th November 2006 at 05:39 PM.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Suzuki Coffee Moments - Photo Competition

    Quote Originally Posted by unseen View Post
    LOL tough day, perhaps.. but I'm not far off the mark. Fact is, most of the people here won't even get their photos published even if they offer it free. As for them stating stuff like 300dpi, you should know that they know nuts about images. XD even a 100x100 image can be 300dpi image..

    As mentioned, it's cheaper to just go buy those well done royalty free stock images. Most of those stock images are of MUCH HIGHER (artistic/technicality) quality than 95% of what you've seen here in this forum. In fact you can even pay peanuts for generic stock photos. For exampl, it's SGD$250 for 750 images of the choice @ www.shutterstock.com, all carefully/professionally done up/cleaned up etc, and you get to choose what you want and what you don't. That's 750 HIGH QUALITY images for anyone who pays...

    Isn't it sad that most photographers here know they're not good enough, and most probably in the non-winner list, that they worry about their rights to their non-winning photos? Haven't they realised that for a low level competition, if they can't win, it's likely that their photos are worth nothing anyway. As in, no one else would even pay them a cent for that photo because, there are definitely better photographers out there.
    Hmmm...well, I think whether the photos nice or not is not my concern, though. I'm thinking of that the organisers wanted photos that they can make use of since they made the theme, free of charge. However, just like someone ask people to help, if you are willing to help, then there's no reason for complaining for no pay... , so I think this applies to taking part in a competition like this. Still, it's about the copyright issue.

    In fact just like someone has already mentioned in one of the above posts, I think the organisers, all of them holding competitions, should at least change their policy, rephrase and act according to the stated terms, and conditions, that they can use, but do not own the copyright, no matter what merit or quality level the photographs are, and give credit to the owner. In that way, it makes everyone happy, doesn't it??

    Just my thoughts...

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Suzuki Coffee Moments - Photo Competition

    Quote Originally Posted by photographique View Post
    Hmmm...well, I think whether the photos nice or not is not my concern, though. I'm thinking of that the organisers wanted photos that they can make use of since they made the theme, free of charge. However, just like someone ask people to help, if you are willing to help, then there's no reason for complaining for no pay... , so I think this applies to taking part in a competition like this. Still, it's about the copyright issue.

    In fact just like someone has already mentioned in one of the above posts, I think the organisers, all of them holding competitions, should at least change their policy, rephrase and act according to the stated terms, and conditions, that they can use, but do not own the copyright, no matter what merit or quality level the photographs are, and give credit to the owner. In that way, it makes everyone happy, doesn't it??

    Just my thoughts...
    hmmmm if you go to a local camera shop, you want to buy a 30D at SGD$1500 because it's selling for that price in the US.. They refuse to budge from theor SGD$1900 price.. What can you do? make all shops should change their prices etc so that it makes everyone happy?
    Or simply buy not buy from that shop, and buy from the US?

    Or you buy 4D, demand that they make it 2D instead so it's easier to win millions? everyone will be happier ya? So how many of you still buy 4D even if it's not favourable?

    Buying 4D, it's worse than this competition ya.. they take your hard earned $$, and they don't even give you any recognition. why not say "Exploited fools, those who have bought 4D ever in their lives. happy being exploited every week."

    In the end, everyone is giving up something for that chance in a million to win something. In this case, it will be 1 in a few hundred chances. Certainly more worth it than 4D.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Suzuki Coffee Moments - Photo Competition

    If the organiser is closing their eyes and randomly pick a photo then comparing it to buying 4D maybe make sense.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Suzuki Coffee Moments - Photo Competition

    the random portion would be how many people enter, how good they are. The average skill level, the number of people are all random. You can't control that.
    If there are only 3 people entering, no matter how randomly they pick they're going to win something.
    If there are only 4 people entering, 4 kintergarden kids and 1 professional photographer entering, the pro would be winning something..
    If there are 500 pros entering, than any random professional would have at most 1/500 chance of winning.

    Looking at 4D, even if I was the only idiot buying 4D, i would have 1/(a few million) chances to win something.
    This competition, if I'm the only entree, I'll 100% win the top prize ya.

    True it's still quite unfair to compare to 4D because 4D is alot more random and even more impossible to win than such a competition.. But hey, there's always hope ya?
    Last edited by unseen; 19th November 2006 at 04:43 AM.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Suzuki Coffee Moments - Photo Competition

    Frankly..... despite all the hoo ha..... I can tell you from industry point of view (YES I AM IN THE MEDIA INDUSTRY, 5 years...)

    Half my clients dont know their rights of what they can and what they cannot use. Why they dont know? They dont need to know, their advertising agency handles everything for them. Hence when they decide to do media stuff without their agency that is when they get into hot soup. Some use the image past the one year loading not knowing have to pay. And must admit some have been victims of suppliers that crank up charges and loadings that seems to appear out of thin air.

    So maybe for them nowdays it is play it safe, just take the rights to everything so that in case, I say in case. They decide to use anything wont get into trouble.

    And yes as some have said..... seriously this competitions are not really worth much.... they are for the sake of having fun, gaining experience and if you are lucky win something. Most pros I say pros as in those who make a living out of photography.... wont even bother about the competition..... or if they join, it is not for the money... please they can earn more money from their job.

    Photography once was a ART, I say WAS because it is now so commercial. Anyone who has a camera is a photographer, DSLR can pay by installment. Everyone wants to be photographer....


    Nowadays everytime got competition we will hear this issue of rights and this and that..... yes I know someone said before he or she know of someone whose work was used by a wine company and paid 5k. But how many will get that chance and most impt of all, how many here are that good?

    Nowadays take a photo, DI here DI there and viola a masterpiece...

    I went to the World Press Photos Talk and something touched me. The speaker said that The winning photographer this year, he was being interviewed, about how he is now world famous, his photographs will be worth lots more, he will be getting alot of assignments, (in short he struck the gold mine with his win) the photographer said something like this "That is not important, what is important is the world finally sees the suffering in Africa" For those who don't know the photo was that of a tiny baby's hand on her mother's hand. The baby was shrunken due to starvation.

    That to me is the true spirt of photography. To preserve forever images in print and not to squabble over petty rights.
    Last edited by centuryegg; 22nd November 2006 at 05:46 PM.

  11. #31

    Default Re: Suzuki Coffee Moments - Photo Competition

    For 4d you have 1/9999 chance to get a prize and not 1/a few million chance of getting something

  12. #32

    Default Re: Suzuki Coffee Moments - Photo Competition

    "play it safe" ... oh well.. the bank certainly does it extremely well. If one looks at the terms n conditions of using their credit cards, one would know. Yet, seemingly we do not have much choice.

    "That is not important, what is important is the world finally sees the suffering in Africa"

    Just some thought about this... may I say that with or without his photo, the World already knew and seen many of this kind of suffering in Africa?

    What is troubling is .. how and when the life of these people can improve significantly.
    Or perhaps, his photo actually create even more awareness and more funds pouring into this country?

    Off topic!?

  13. #33

    Default Re: Suzuki Coffee Moments - Photo Competition

    Quote Originally Posted by arowana View Post
    For 4d you have 1/9999 chance to get a prize and not 1/a few million chance of getting something
    sorry, can't help but OT also. 1/9999? it's incorrect.
    is 1/10,000 correct then?

    I think a JC student taking F.maths can answer.
    give it a try.


    ok, now back to the topic..
    i think what 'Del_CtrlnoAlt' said is absolutely correct abt the rights, even if zealously. perhaps the organizer's marketing person (presumable 'lainey') truely quite unitiated and like 'Century_egg' said, to err on the side of caution with an 'all-encompassing' clause on the rights. 'unseen' is pretty discouraged by the early thumbsdown and perhaps takes very good pics and believe non-pros should not bother too much abt rights before even delivering the goods.

    well well, let the contest go on..
    lainey is wise in knowing this forum is a good place to reach photography enthusiasts. prizes are definitely more attractive than O'brien's contest. Del_CtrlnoAlt is indeed very helpful in increasing our awareness of the finer points of photo rights. many of us appreciate your highlighting it. i wasn't aware until now
    Century_egg gave a fair view of the side of the organizer.
    unseen is of course welcome to think nothing of poor pictures, along w the rights. perhaps he can also share his entries here later on too. (we hope you can help to increase the mentioned '5%' with your entries.) but i seriously think the good pics posted here are definitely more than 5% la.. else lainey is posting the ad in the wrong place liao. logical right?

    that's what online forum is all about isn't it? we get myriad views and we learned something new at the end of the day. that's what makes this forum exciting.
    let's all not quarrel but learn from each other, and also shoot more pics, whether good or bad, pro or hobbyist, and post them here.

    photography brings new perspectives.
    digital photography alters perspectives and shortens the learning curve.

    good day everyone!
    Last edited by blaine; 23rd November 2006 at 12:44 AM.

  14. #34

    Default Re: Suzuki Coffee Moments - Photo Competition

    Quote Originally Posted by Prismatic View Post
    Really, what's the arguement here?
    People who want to join the competition will still join the competition because they think that it's fair for them. People who think that it's unfair, will just boycott it. There will be those who thinks it's unfair but still take part anyway. But please don't accuse the organisers of exploitation because it's not. They haven't done anything to force people to take part, and anyone who's taking part should have already read the T&C and agreed.

    The example that CAnD gave, it's not exactly true that it's unfair for the other 97 participants. Even if the winning works are to be chosen randomly, the copyright that they give up is in exchange for the chance that they might win. Taken to the extreme, it's the same reason why you still have to pay for a lottery ticket. When the winning entries are chosen according to the participants' merit, it's still a matter of chance whether there's someone else who's better than you.

    I'm a person who believes in artisic copyrights but sometimes you have to stop and think, how much is your picture worth? In the case of this competition, the organisers have already offered a price, that's the prize money. It's up to you whether you want to take this price or not. For $300, if they really wanted, they could have easily gotten a CD full of stock pictures of people drinking coffee anyway. Professional stock photography isn't cheap, but generic stock pictures are. If place too high a value on your copyrights, you will never be able to get it out, because no one will be able to afford it.

    Well..some of us just "Buay Song" with the exploitation, so we voice out.. Is there a problem with that?


    There are some photographer who actually value their work and take pride with what they do, but are ignorant about copyrights, so its good that it is being voice out about this issue. Is it better to just keep quiet? Mind you, we dun get any benefit from voicing these out, we just create some form of awareness.
    Last edited by delong72; 23rd November 2006 at 01:03 AM.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Suzuki Coffee Moments - Photo Competition

    Quote Originally Posted by evershine View Post
    "play it safe" ... oh well.. the bank certainly does it extremely well. If one looks at the terms n conditions of using their credit cards, one would know. Yet, seemingly we do not have much choice.

    "That is not important, what is important is the world finally sees the suffering in Africa"

    Just some thought about this... may I say that with or without his photo, the World already knew and seen many of this kind of suffering in Africa?

    What is troubling is .. how and when the life of these people can improve significantly.
    Or perhaps, his photo actually create even more awareness and more funds pouring into this country?

    Off topic!?
    Just for your info and I APOLOGIZE if I was off topic although I still cant figure out how I am ot. Yes you are right, they world did know cos before the photo was taken, starvation was widespread in Sudan and the G8 Summit had just taken place without any leader taking any mention of the issue. It was a case of we rich nations cant be bothered with some africans dying. And yes the Photo did shock the world and force everyone to see something that they chose to ignore. What I was trying to say is that there is more to photography than winning competitions, rights etc... Photography can change things in the world and perhsp one should think about that...

  16. #36

    Default Re: Suzuki Coffee Moments - Photo Competition

    Quote Originally Posted by centuryegg View Post
    I went to the World Press Photos Talk and something touched me. The speaker said that The winning photographer this year, he was being interviewed, about how he is now world famous, his photographs will be worth lots more, he will be getting alot of assignments, (in short he struck the gold mine with his win) the photographer said something like this "That is not important, what is important is the world finally sees the suffering in Africa" For those who don't know the photo was that of a tiny baby's hand on her mother's hand. The baby was shrunken due to starvation.

    That to me is the true spirt of photography. To preserve forever images in print and not to squabble over petty rights.
    I admire this photographer, but did he mention he give away all his copyrights? I dun think so. Most respected photography competition do not take away your copyrights and their true intention is to award good photographer and promote photography, at most they would only use the photographs to promote the competition. Now, there is a different in intention of the organiser.

  17. #37

    Default Re: Suzuki Coffee Moments - Photo Competition

    Quote Originally Posted by blaine View Post
    sorry, can't help but OT also. 1/9999? it's incorrect.
    is 1/10,000 correct then?

    I think a JC student taking F.maths can answer.
    give it a try.
    OTing a bit also.... 1/10,000 is absolutely correct. Most people forget or can't believe that "0000" is a 4D number. I mentioned the number to my dad one day and the next day it came out.

    Along the same theme, ignorance is not bliss. Reading through the points raised in this thread, I for one think it's good for all of us to think through any and all terms and conditions that we are about to agree to, especially those that are unilaterally imposed (most of the time by people who think they know best). No matter how bad and worthless anyone else thinks your photos are, I am sure that it is worth something to you. Is it worth a chance to win $300? You have to decide that for yourself.
    Last edited by denmad; 23rd November 2006 at 01:51 AM.

  18. #38

    Default Re: Suzuki Coffee Moments - Photo Competition

    i agree with both sidess here but only to a point.
    I am sure my photographs cant get 10cents, and even if given free people wont take them, but the bottom line is they are MINE.
    Of course it is the right of the organizer of such competitions to have these rules which benifit them, as is our right not to participate in these things as well.
    The question that i ask is why would i take part, is it because i can win or isit because i can share what i think is beauftiful with a wider group. At the end of the day i would do it because i would want to share, but i would want to retain the rights to what is mine. thus the knot becomes tighter!

  19. #39
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suzuki Coffee Moments - Photo Competition

    please send all images that you do not want with a signed contract transfering all right to me.

    Maybe I'll start a photo library.

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Suzuki Coffee Moments - Photo Competition

    btw a photo no matter good or bad belongs to the photographer
    the org is wrong to want the copyright

    i take macros, not much commercial value
    in fact cannot even impress girls
    but the images are created by me
    i value them

    if you do not value your own work
    how do you expect others to value them

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