could it be CCD problem?

[drewdam]

hi folks,

i still can not get over this hot pixel issue..

is that normal that the hot pixels appeared on the same few spots for all the pic that taken even NR is 'ON' for long exposure, 2.5s ..? i have sent my cam last week to oly service ctr for this and was told they pixel mapping done, checked n tested by their service technican, but it still happen when i test teh nite shoot just now..will it be a problem of the CCD?

tks!

[nightpiper]

i think so. my E1 also got 1 hot pixel whenever i do long exposure. cheaper to get a new cam than change the CCD, but if still under warranty, then good chance to replace it FOC.

as long as the exposure is more than 1s, the hot pix will appear. good luck with the replacement.

[Mikefellh]

There has to be a minimum of STUCK pixels in EVERY image before they will consider changing the CCD...if you are changing it just because of hot pixels, the CCD you get may be worse and may have a stuck pixel or two.

For instance, I was recently shopping for LCD projectors, and here's what it says about stuck pixels in one manual, "During projection, 0.01% or less of pixels may stay lit or unlit due to the characteristics of the LCD panel." 0.01% stuck pixels might sound like something you can live with, but in an 8mp (7,990,272 pixel) camera for instance that would be over 79,000 pixels would have to be stuck before they would look at it. From what I heard many manufacturers though allow 7-10 STUCK pixels before they will replace the CCD.

If you want less hot pixels you'll have to go to a larger imager format, like medium format...with the smaller CCDs come more noise and easier to get hot pixels.

I'm not saying don't try to get a replacement, but if your only issue is hot pixels than I certainly wouldn't bother.

[drewdam]

will check with oly ctr and see how thing go by...my warranty just over but i had sent in few days b4 expiry due to same problem,,

[drewdam]

Originally Posted by Mikefellh There has to be a minimum of STUCK pixels in EVERY image before they will consider changing the CCD...if you are changing it just because of hot pixels, the CCD you get may be worse and may have a stuck pixel or two. For instance, I was recently shopping for LCD projectors, and here's what it says about stuck pixels in one manual, "During projection, 0.01% or less of pixels may stay lit or unlit due to the characteristics of the LCD panel." 0.01% stuck pixels might sound like something you can live with, but in an 8mp (7,990,272 pixel) camera for instance that would be over 79,000 pixels would have to be stuck before they would look at it. From what I heard many manufacturers though allow 7-10 STUCK pixels before they will replace the CCD. If you want less hot pixels you'll have to go to a larger imager format, like medium format...with the smaller CCDs come more noise and easier to get hot pixels. I'm not saying don't try to get a replacement, but if your only issue is hot pixels than I certainly wouldn't bother.

hi mike,

your worst mean due to replacement done by service ctr technican or the CCD that repleced may have the same problem or worst but still w/i spec?

[drakon09]

Techician or not, surgery is surgery. Anything that is opened up and overhauled would change the insides.

If it's just that one pixel I suggest you just clone it off; it's probably easier!

[Mikefellh]

Originally Posted by drewdam hi mike, your worst mean due to replacement done by service ctr technican or the CCD that repleced may have the same problem or worst but still w/i spec?

CCDs are not perfect devices, they are analog devices. It's like hard drives...when you buy a hard drive there is an error map encoded of bad sectors that the hard drive can't use, and while operating the hard drive continually checks for problem sectors for the drive to map out and avoid.

For instance if you have your CCD with no stuck pixels but had hot pixels, you may get a CCD with some stuck pixels.

[drewdam]

i went to service ctr just now...they told there're about 6-7 hot pixel (not bright but dimmer type, is this hot pixel also?) even with NR on when exposure set between at 1.3 - 3.2s

the lady technican told me can only change the CCD if is >10..and ask whether will i print out large print out, if not is not obvious..also my warrany just over for 4 days and i have to pay for CCD at S$288 and they are "kind enough" to wavier the S$120 service charge...but the problem is i had sent it in before warranty was out and they have not retified the problem when i collected back last friday. now become i send in after warranty and i have to pay for it..i am damn disappointed

why is only happen when exposure between 2.5-3.2s, but no problem after 4s of exposure then, was told they just did a pixel mapping and every is OK.

by the way, i just check it is more than 10 counts of those dots..

look like i have to bare with it till i change the boby or new cam next time...

[drewdam]

here's the pic attach...exposure 2.5s with NR 'ON" , spotted at 1:1 crop...btw am i too much to spot these dots? am i that kiasu?

if is at the 15" screen size, there's about 15 dots in total that can be seen clearly...

pic below shown about 15% of the whole pic tho..

[gryphon]

Originally Posted by drewdam i went to service ctr just now...they told there're about 6-7 hot pixel (not bright but dimmer type, is this hot pixel also?) even with NR on when exposure set between at 1.3 - 3.2s the lady technican told me can only change the CCD if is <10..and ask whether will i print out large print out, if not is not obvious..also my warrany just over for 4 days and i have to pay for CCD at S$288 and they are "kind enough" to wavier the S$120 service charge...but the problem is i had sent it in before warranty was out and they have not retified the problem when i collected back last friday. now become i send in after warranty and i have to pay for it..i am damn disappointed why is only happen when exposure between 2.5-3.2s, but no problem after 4s of exposure then, was told they just did a pixel mapping and every is OK. by the way, i just check it is more than 10 counts of those dots.. look like i have to bare with it till i change the boby or new cam next time...

U shd have kicked up a big fuss and demand to see manager!

[drewdam]

Originally Posted by gryphon U shd have kicked up a big fuss and demand to see manager!

i just retake anothe rfew more pic in the drak, at 3.2s it has the most hot pixel and i just called their manager but was told this is w/i spec...i ask again why nothing after 4s but 3.2, 2.5 n 1.6sec all have...oh, he will feedback to oly factory on this...well...LL liow lor wat can i say.

btw will the hot pixel appear only in jpeg out of cam due to in cam processing?

[cjtune]

Originally Posted by drewdam btw will the hot pixel appear only in jpeg out of cam due to in cam processing?

No. If anything, JPEG tends to mask it as it is a lossy-data compression.

Try shooting in ORF/RAW?
Then just present those RAW files to the tech/her manager as proof that there's >10.
But there's problem of proving that it was already >10 within the warranty period, and now that the warranty's expired...

[drewdam]

Originally Posted by cjtune No. If anything, JPEG tends to mask it as it is a lossy-data compression. Try shooting in ORF/RAW? Then just present those RAW files to the tech/her manager as proof that there's >10. But there's problem of proving that it was already >10 within the warranty period, and now that the warranty's expired...

i had sent in few raw file in my CF card (2s exposure) with more than 10...at least 20 last week before warranty was out but they din tell me about this <10 thingy...and there's a service record on this send in.

i am damn piss with their reply that this is nor...if pixel mapping can solve..i dont need to go all the way there just to ask them to press pixel mapping for me.

[drewdam]

oh ya, cjtune...they did mentioned to me about the horizontal banding issue from CS and ask will pple in the forum take this info as reference n check their cam...i tell that technican why not?

guess they do look at CS but keep silent tho

[cjtune]

Originally Posted by drewdam oh ya, cjtune...they did mentioned to me about the horizontal banding issue from CS and ask will pple in the forum take this info as reference n check their cam...i tell that technican why not? guess they do look at CS but keep silent tho

I believe the technician I am dealing with for the resolution of my horizontal banding issue checks on the threads here regularly. Perhaps its the same person with yours?

They keep silent maybe because they are not permitted to publicly represent Olympus' opinion. Most companies have this policy or standard of conduct that employees must follow.

Also, If I had just stopped pursuing my matter at day 1 and had accepted the horizontal banding as 'normal' when first diagnosed, my camera would not have been serviced properly. Of course, I've yet to get it back and with a NMOS sensor replacement, I'm very eager to see it as the same camera I enjoyed and know, minus the horizontal banding (at least equal to or less than in severity than the loaned unit I have), and definitely not with anything else 'extra' that I didn't know beforehand.

S$2000 is not the price of a toy camera and I believe as a customer you deserve your money's worth.

[drewdam]

Originally Posted by cjtune I believe the technician I am dealing with for the resolution of my horizontal banding issue checks on the threads here regularly. Perhaps its the same person with yours? They keep silent maybe because they are not permitted to publicly represent Olympus' opinion. Most companies have this policy or standard of conduct that employees must follow. Also, If I had just stopped pursuing my matter at day 1 and had accepted the horizontal banding as 'normal' when first diagnosed, my camera would not have been serviced properly. Of course, I've yet to get it back and with a NMOS sensor replacement, I'm very eager to see it as the same camera I enjoyed and know, minus the horizontal banding (at least equal to or less than in severity than the loaned unit I have), and definitely not with anything else 'extra' that I didn't know beforehand. S$2000 is not the price of a toy camera and I believe as a customer you deserve your money's worth.

maybe i should bring this to their headq. ..i called their service manager again just now and ask will they allow me to swap for another E500 body with i top up rather than change CCD by the local technican....it is not worth and not right for me to sell it away (and pass this quality problem to another person) and change system cos of some1 taht unable/unwilling to do thing right in the 1st place.

[cjtune]

Originally Posted by drewdam maybe i should bring this to their headq. ..i called their service manager again just now and ask will they allow me to swap for another E500 body with i top up rather than change CCD by the local technican....it is not worth and not right for me to sell it away (and pass this quality problem to another person) and change system cos of some1 taht unable/unwilling to do thing right in the 1st place.

I think as long as you have documented proof that the problem was detected during the warranty period, you should have a strong case. The RAW shots that show >10 stuck pixels ought to be enough proof.

After the first pixel mapping servicing, you should have taken a black shot (eg. with lens cap on) and scrutinised it before leaving.

[cjtune]

Originally Posted by drewdam oh ya, cjtune...they did mentioned to me about the horizontal banding issue from CS and ask will pple in the forum take this info as reference n check their cam...i tell that technican why not?

BTW, I've not come across any E-300 and E-500's having horizontal banded noise problems so you can rest easy taking shots at >ISO800 though they are inherently worse-off than similar entry-level Canon or Nikon DSLRs.
It's the E-330 and DMC-L1 that's having it so far. Most probably due to Panasonic's slip-up in the NMOS' or its control circuitry design, and that wasn't detected or addressed until X months after the first few production units got shipped. No decent imaging company should/would claim bands in images as within specs, especially for more upmarket models.

[drewdam]

Originally Posted by cjtune I think as long as you have documented proof that the problem was detected during the warranty period, you should have a strong case. The RAW shots that show >10 stuck pixels ought to be enough proof. After the first pixel mapping servicing, you should have taken a black shot (eg. with lens cap on) and scrutinised it before leaving.

never tot of that tho...i reach there almost 7pm after work w/o any cam stuff. see i trust their professional service and din check ..go on IR shoot on a nice sunny Sunday some more till yesterday..sigh...

[nightpiper]

Originally Posted by drewdam maybe i should bring this to their headq. ..i called their service manager again just now and ask will they allow me to swap for another E500 body with i top up rather than change CCD by the local technican....it is not worth and not right for me to sell it away (and pass this quality problem to another person) and change system cos of some1 taht unable/unwilling to do thing right in the 1st place.

wah, ur E500 so soon has hot pix?! heavily used? my E1 was heavily used & it has a group of stuck pix in the center whenever i do long exposure. i think it might be worth the risk to go for a CCD replacement less the service charge since the CCD is not that expensive. do it fast before GST goes to 7%.