Are rights really that important??

[centuryegg]

Just want to start a discussion to get the views of everyone here.

I noticed that recently alot of forum users here turn their nose at any competition that states in their t and c, their ownership over rights of the picture. And many state reasons like prices being pathetic etc.

What I am really curious to know is how much do the photos sell for that is if anyone would buy them?? I mean my point is.... are the photos really worth tens of thousands by themselves or is it a case of taking things a little over board? I mean maybe I say maybe your photo can fetch some money.... but then again maybe cant fetch a single cent. So all the harping about the photos rights being taken from you because you join a competition..... Its like harping about photos that you might not be able to sell anyway because no one would buy.

Correct me if I am wrong, just wanting to clarify things.

[Del_CtrlnoAlt]

Originally Posted by centuryegg Just want to start a discussion to get the views of everyone here. I noticed that recently alot of forum users here turn their nose at any competition that states in their t and c, their ownership over rights of the picture. And many state reasons like prices being pathetic etc. What I am really curious to know is how much do the photos sell for that is if anyone would buy them?? I mean my point is.... are the photos really worth tens of thousands by themselves or is it a case of taking things a little over board? I mean maybe I say maybe your photo can fetch some money.... but then again maybe cant fetch a single cent. So all the harping about the photos rights being taken from you because you join a competition..... Its like harping about photos that you might not be able to sell anyway because no one would buy. Correct me if I am wrong, just wanting to clarify things.

actually, iirc, nowadays competition rules changed in a way that even if the pictures is not top 3 prize or even consolation, they could still use your pics as they deem fit. meaning, pics you have submitted will/could be used even if you did not get a prize. Which is rather unfair...

Should be, 1st prize entitled to 10 years or unlimited use, 2nd prize, 5 years, 3rd prize 3 years, consolation prize 1 year... then rest of the pictures automatically removed from their database.

[centuryegg]

Originally Posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt actually, iirc, nowadays competition rules changed in a way that even if the pictures is not top 3 prize or even consolation, they could still use your pics as they deem fit. meaning, pics you have submitted will/could be used even if you did not get a prize. Which is rather unfair... Should be, 1st prize entitled to 10 years or unlimited use, 2nd prize, 5 years, 3rd prize 3 years, consolation prize 1 year... then rest of the pictures automatically removed from their database.

I see.... that certaintely clarifies things alot. Thanks for the insight.

[meadslaw]

Copyright exists in the first place to create the motivation and impetus for creative works by ensuring that the authors can fully exploit the commercial potential for their own benefit.

By taking part in competition or assigning rights as seemingly already as in the contract, the author still have underlying rights to their works, i.e. moral rights of paternity (authorship), and integrity (not having works subjected to unjustified modification).

If organisations use photographs without permission for purpose/s deemed commercial, then who wants to be creative? (Please note that the permission may or may not come with use fees.)

[mattlock]

Originally Posted by meadslaw Copyright exists in the first place to create the motivation and impetus for creative works by ensuring that the authors can fully exploit the commercial potential for their own benefit. By taking part in competition or assigning rights as seemingly already as in the contract, the author still have underlying rights to their works, i.e. moral rights of paternity (authorship), and integrity (not having works subjected to unjustified modification). If organisations use photographs without permission for purpose/s deemed commercial, then who wants to be creative? (Please note that the permission may or may not come with use fees.)

exactly
copyrights exist for a reason
even though you may not value your work, there will be other people who may find value in your work
copyright law is especially important for artists themselves since artists tend not to put as much value on their work as other people would...

[Sion]

Do not underestimate the worth of your photos.

I can always remember a photo that has been rejected by 2 agencies. Eventually a wine company paid A$5,000 to use it to promote Australian wine in California.

Your works which have taken you so much time, energy and expenses to produce deserve more respect than giving the rights away easily.

[ortega]

it is important to the photographer

if you do not value your own work, then no one will

[raptor84]

Rights get espcially important when you deal with ad agencies and even publication houses. You need a proper set of Terms of use to govern exactly how your photos are to be used and for how much.

[delong72]

Originally Posted by ortega it is important to the photographer if you do not value your own work, then no one will

WELL SAID

Every creator of their works automatically owns the copyright of the works.
You want to sell off your ownership of your work, go ahead but dun do it for free. That's STUPIDITY.

You can still retain ownership while still giving someone permission to use it under a certain condition or certain cost. Some professionals or even freelancer have agency to manage their rights of their photographs.

Organisation are now taking advantage of the ignorance of ownership among the amateurs photographers (some who are very talented) to exploit them and it sicken me to see this happening so often. So please, be wise. Take some pride in your work.

[p.k]

delong72, if the same client reuses your images at a later date, how do you charge (your loading fee) and how do you enforce it? how do you keep track in the first place?

[delong72]

Originally Posted by p.k delong72, if the same client reuses your images at a later date, how do you charge (your loading fee) and how do you enforce it? how do you keep track in the first place?

Good qns.

Unless your client insist you sign a contract or agreement stating that they own the ownership of the photographs, you should still retain the ownership.

It depends on what kind of license you want to give to your client. Remember, you are giving exclusive rights for your clients to use the photographs NOT giving away ownership. If you have a registered company, then your company should issue the license to your clients otherwise get an stock photograph agency to represent you. There are a few standard types of license mainly Royalty free and Rights managed. Each license will specify how the photographs can be used. Usually, rights-managed photographs have limited usage and are usually very expensive and stock photo agency tend to selectively knows what kinda of photographs should be rights managed due to the commercial value of the photographs. Photographs that do not make it to as rights-managed tend to become royalty free images. There's lotsa of information out there in the internet to read about this stuff. Good luck.

The important thing is never to give away your ownership unless you really dun value your own work and never want to associate that work with you ever again then by all means.

[Staphylococcus]

Just to add a twist to the discussion, what about copyrights regarding piracy, be it music,movie,software? How many of us dun even think twice about buying a pirated disc and here we are talking about our own 'copyrights'. I guess when it hits us personally, we feel the injustice. This is human nature!

I agree that only winners should hand over their copyrights because an exchange has occured, be it monetary or otherwise. But non-winners should not be exploited for their effort and creativity. If the organisers want to use a non-winners image, the least they can do is to acknowledge/credit the photographer who took the image. I'm sure you'll be proud to see your picture in some material and say to yourself, "Yah, that's my shot".

[ortega]

they must at least ask the rightful owner for permission to use
and not just use and give credit

that is professional courtesy

[delong72]

Just one more thing that I would like to add.

In case you guys may not be aware, if you are giving away your copyrights/ownership in a competition or assignment to the organiser or client. They are not obliged to ask you for permission to use the photos or credit you AND BEST OF ALL, you are supposingly NOT allowed to use these photos ever again without their permission. Possesion, distribution, printing of these photos which you once created are considered ILLEGAL!

So say tata to your photos..and take care..

[Del_CtrlnoAlt]

Originally Posted by delong72 Just one more thing that I would like to add. In case you guys may not be aware, if you are giving away your copyrights/ownership in a competition or assignment to the organiser or client. They are not obliged to ask you for permission to use the photos or credit you AND BEST OF ALL, you are supposingly NOT allowed to use these photos ever again without their permission. Possesion, distribution, printing of these photos which you once created are considered ILLEGAL! So say tata to your photos..and take care..

ya true, even saying that pic belongs to you, they can sue you and win the lawsuit, cos you have given the picture to them.

[redstone]

Well, are there any photo competitions organised just to promote excellence in photography and nothing commercial, with the photog retaining all the rights?

[ortega]

Originally Posted by redstone Well, are there any photo competitions organised just to promote excellence in photography and nothing commercial, with the photog retaining all the rights?

here are 3
if you search you would be able to find more

http://nikonimaging.com/global/activ...tm#disclaimers

http://www.nikon.com.sg/pagearticle.php?pageid=35

http://www.ngcasia.com/nikon/index.htm?link&tnc&eng

[ortega]

http://www.worldpressphoto.nl/images...engels_def.pdf

[ortega]

http://www.safraphotoclub.com/download/pty_theme_2.pdf

[ortega]

UOB Painting Of The Year Competition