Four Third System "common home" stinks

[OlyFlyer]

I think the decision of moving Olympus dSLRs to a common "Four Third System" was bad, based only on very few answers to a poll. In fact, I think the poll was a fake, decision was already made. The only reason to do so was to hide Oly so that no newbie will ever find out that there are actually dSLR models called Olympus. At least not easily through this forum.

If Canon and Nikon can co-exist with P&S Canon and Nikon why can't Olympus? We, Oly dSLR owners have more in common with with a P&S Oly than any non-Oly 4/3 camera. The only think we have in common with other 4/3 dSLR is the lens mounth. I don't even know if the actual lens communication protocol is the same, but even if it is, for me the lens is just glass, hopefully soon there will be more manufacturers.

What else do we have in common with Lumix for example? Can we use the same flashes and still have full TTL? Can we use the same remotes? Do we usually have the same kind of problems?

Bad, bad, bad decision admins!

[Mikefellh]

I disagree. For instance even though I'm an E-300 user I was able to help out an L1 user who wasn't getting any help for their issue from fellow Panasonic owners.

I think more time should be given before any snap judgments are made.

[VR Man]

We all have our own opinions.

Peace everyone

[OlyFlyer]

Originally Posted by Mikefellh I disagree. For instance even though I'm an E-300 user I was able to help out an L1 user who wasn't getting any help for their issue from fellow Panasonic owners. I think more time should be given before any snap judgments are made.

Mike, it is great that you care to read all posts and help others, but with that argument all dSLRs shuld just be one "common home". I am pretty sure half press works the same way in all or most cameras. When it comes to MF+AF mode, if that exists on other cameras I'd guess it works the same way. I am very sure that by reading forums of other brands some problems can be solved regardless of camera make. That does not make it "common home". Anyway, I am sorry if Panasonic owners are not interested in helping each other but I still think that in that case a Panasonic user is welcome to post a question on any brand's thread. I have seen that on other Oly forums also, and nobody says Go to H*** if somebody is asking a polite question.

[tomcat]

Originally Posted by OlyFlyer I think the decision of moving Olympus dSLRs to a common "Four Third System" was bad, based only on very few answers to a poll. In fact, I think the poll was a fake, decision was already made. The only reason to do so was to hide Oly so that no newbie will ever find out that there are actually dSLR models called Olympus. At least not easily through this forum. If Canon and Nikon can co-exist with P&S Canon and Nikon why can't Olympus? We, Oly dSLR owners have more in common with with a P&S Oly than any non-Oly 4/3 camera. The only think we have in common with other 4/3 dSLR is the lens mounth. I don't even know if the actual lens communication protocol is the same, but even if it is, for me the lens is just glass, hopefully soon there will be more manufacturers. What else do we have in common with Lumix for example? Can we use the same flashes and still have full TTL? Can we use the same remotes? Do we usually have the same kind of problems? Bad, bad, bad decision admins!

Well, if you have read the sticky post on Compatibility Information Resource Thread, you would have found the official stand by Panasonic on the compatibility of various Olympus 4/3 accessories with the L1. And if you doubt the claims by Panasonic, then this is where this forum comes in.

So far, the L1 has worked very well with full TTL with my FL-36. I don't have the FL-50 and so I can't confirm that claim. The L1 also worked very well with my Panasonic DMW-FL28E and Leica SF24D flashes though not with TTL of course. I actually brought along the FL28E with me during my recent holiday trip as a back-up in case any unpublished compatibility problems cropped up between the FL-36 and the L1.

The L1 is still very new to the market and there are very, very few owners. Maybe if there are more adopters and they sign up on this forum, then answers to questions would come faster. It is not true that fellow Panasonic L1 users do not help each other. There seems to be only 2 anyway on this forum. I would have immediately tried to help Vernon on his question with the Leica kit lens but I had lent mine to a fellow Clubsnapper to try out and so I did not want to make any statement that I cannot personally confirm. I am glad that another 4/3 (Oly) user managed to help him instead which again points to the usefulness of such a common Four-Thirds System forum.

[cire07]

Originally Posted by OlyFlyer I think the decision of moving Olympus dSLRs to a common "Four Third System" was bad, based only on very few answers to a poll. In fact, I think the poll was a fake, decision was already made. The only reason to do so was to hide Oly so that no newbie will ever find out that there are actually dSLR models called Olympus. At least not easily through this forum. If Canon and Nikon can co-exist with P&S Canon and Nikon why can't Olympus? We, Oly dSLR owners have more in common with with a P&S Oly than any non-Oly 4/3 camera. The only think we have in common with other 4/3 dSLR is the lens mounth. I don't even know if the actual lens communication protocol is the same, but even if it is, for me the lens is just glass, hopefully soon there will be more manufacturers. What else do we have in common with Lumix for example? Can we use the same flashes and still have full TTL? Can we use the same remotes? Do we usually have the same kind of problems? Bad, bad, bad decision admins!

Well, whatever small amt of pple tt participated in the poll, those are the ones who actually care whether there's a new sub-forum/forum at all... Those tt didn't poll probably dun care which forum we exist in...

perhaps we can create a simple link or something thhat directs those interested in Oly's DSLRs to here?

[cire07]

Originally Posted by VR Man We all have our own opinions. Peace everyone

Yeah, peace is best! Everyone has their own opinion, thus a Forum is the best place to share it! It's not the clash/difference in opinion(s) that causes problems... Its the way these opinions are presented and taken...

all in all, it's great to see fellow Oly users so passionate abt our Forumm...

[OlyFlyer]

Originally Posted by tomcat Well, if you have read the sticky post on Compatibility Information Resource Thread, you would have found the official stand by Panasonic on the compatibility of various Olympus 4/3 accessories with the L1. And if you doubt the claims by Panasonic, then this is where this forum comes in.

Yes, if I have read about compatibility issues I would know. But I did not because I am not interested. I have my camera and that is Oly, not Panasonic. As far as I can see they are different cameras, more different than Oly dSLR and and Oly P&S.

But I guess this decision is made to make Oly P&S owners to believe that there are no Oly dSLRs to move up to. Clicking on Canon or Nikon opens a whole new world of dSLRs for those P&S eyes.

[VR Man]

Originally Posted by OlyFlyer But I guess this decision is made to make Oly P&S owners to believe that there are no Oly dSLRs to move up to. Clicking on Canon or Nikon opens a whole new world of dSLRs for those P&S eyes.

You do have a point here.

Maybe the mods can put up a sticky on the Oly thread to reference the Oly P&S users to this 4/3 section for those interested in dSLRs. Something like info on Oly dSLR, click here at 4/3.

[cire07]

Originally Posted by VR Man You do have a point here. Maybe the mods can put up a sticky on the Oly thread to reference the Oly P&S users to this 4/3 section for those interested in dSLRs. Something like info on Oly dSLR, click here at 4/3.

2nd-ed...

[microcosm]

Thank you for all the feedback.

[Mikefellh]

Originally Posted by OlyFlyer If Canon and Nikon can co-exist with P&S Canon and Nikon why can't Olympus? We, Oly dSLR owners have more in common with with a P&S Oly than any non-Oly 4/3 camera. The only think we have in common with other 4/3 dSLR is the lens mounth. I don't even know if the actual lens communication protocol is the same, but even if it is, for me the lens is just glass, hopefully soon there will be more manufacturers. What else do we have in common with Lumix for example? Can we use the same flashes and still have full TTL? Can we use the same remotes? Do we usually have the same kind of problems?

Having come from a C-700 upgraded to an E-300, let's see what compatibilities there are between Oly dSLRs and C-series as you suggest (no point doing D-series as you couldn't use accessories on them anyway):

Flash, no TTL compatibility! The old FL-40 flash is NOT compatible with E-system.

Remote, while there has been some compatibility in the past, with the E-300 you had to buy the HLD-3 to use the cable remote, the E-500 and E-330 only used the IR remote, and the E-400 introduces a new USB based cable remote (which makes the most sense).

Battery, while a few of the C-series did use the BLM-1, most of them used AAs.

Lenses, they are more than "just glass". Anyway you shouldn't use C-series converter lenses on the E-system lenses (or else you risk damage to the E-system lens due to the fact it's not designed for so much weight).

On the other hand the biggest thing about the dSLR is talk about lenses, and that's where the similarities are between the E-system, Panasonic L1, and Leica Digilux3 are, and having a common forum stops the needless duplication in all three forums (if there is a Leica forum).

It's interesting opposite the thoughts are here compared to DPReview...every few weeks there's a new thread popping up asking for a common 4/3 forum, but in that case it's the administration that's against it (presumably because of advertising they deliver on there).

Actually, one of my biggest complaints to Oly that the E-300 DOESN'T operate as well as my C-700 did, like having to hold down the AEL button rather than have a press-on, press off ability...and as well as not having a custom reset feature so the same settings can be automatically loaded every time the camera is powered on. There's some similarity in the way the menu looks and feels, but there are different options.

[Raptor1]

Actually, with regards to this "Four Thirds" forum, i would like this forum to be placed higher then the Oly forum, so at least we see this four thirds forum first.

[OlyFlyer]

Originally Posted by Raptor1 Actually, with regards to this "Four Thirds" forum, i would like this forum to be placed higher then the Oly forum, so at least we see this four thirds forum first.

That is a very good point. The text below shold say something like "Common home for Olympus, Panasonic, Leica dSLR and other 4/3 cameras and lenses". That would at least draw some attention.

[OlyFlyer]

Originally Posted by Mikefellh Lenses, they are more than "just glass". Anyway you shouldn't use C-series converter lenses on the E-system lenses (or else you risk damage to the E-system lens due to the fact it's not designed for so much weight).

I don't think weight is a problem. I learned to hold the lens in my left and the camera in my right hand. That is the way I have done for over thirty years now. Every heavy lens supposed to be held that way on any camera, not just E-system.

Mike, you may be right in every point you say here but I still regard Oly P&S shooters as little brothers and sisters on their way up to become grown adults one day. While I regard Panasonic and Leica as fully grown adults from a different family competing about the same market share. That does not mean I do not want to help them. I do help my neighbours also, I like them but not regarded as family members.

[snapperkid]

Originally Posted by OlyFlyer I don't think weight is a problem. I learned to hold the lens in my left and the camera in my right hand. That is the way I have done for over thirty years now. Every heavy lens supposed to be held that way on any camera, not just E-system. Mike, you may be right in every point you say here but I still regard Oly P&S shooters as little brothers and sisters on their way up to become grown adults one day. While I regard Panasonic and Leica as fully grown adults from a different family competing about the same market share. That does not mean I do not want to help them. I do help my neighbours also, I like them but not regarded as family members.

that's why the 'children' should have their own corner, and the adults too, just like in real life.
Since panasonic and leica have join in the e-system, it will still be a little funny if we do not have this one.

[Mikefellh]

Originally Posted by OlyFlyer I don't think weight is a problem. I learned to hold the lens in my left and the camera in my right hand. That is the way I have done for over thirty years now. Every heavy lens supposed to be held that way on any camera, not just E-system.

I'm not talking about weight on the body itself...I'm talking about excess weight added to the lens itself by the converter lens. I've had the 3.25kg 90-250mm on my E-300 and I don't have a problem with that. But adding excess weight onto a kit lens (or any lens that has externally moving elements) will cause stress on the lens motor and can cause damage to the lens motor and/or gears.

Originally Posted by OlyFlyer I regard Panasonic and Leica as fully grown adults from a different family competing about the same market share. That does not mean I do not want to help them. I do help my neighbours also, I like them but not regarded as family members.

In the case of the Panasonic L1 and Leica Digilux3 using your metaphor of family, they are the ones who have married into the family. The C, D, & E-series were the brothers & sisters, but now it's time to leave them behind as you've moved away from them and associate with the new adult members of our extended family.

[vernonleow]

Originally Posted by Mikefellh I disagree. For instance even though I'm an E-300 user I was able to help out an L1 user who wasn't getting any help for their issue from fellow Panasonic owners. I think more time should be given before any snap judgments are made.

I am the grateful receipient of that helpful reply and I think this serves as an excellent example of getting more help from a bigger pool. Much like how the concept of Four Thirds is to allow "interaction" between lenses and cameras from different makers, I think we can benefit from having Oly, Pana, Leica and Sigma Four Thirds users in one common room.

[OlyFlyer]

Originally Posted by snapperkid that's why the 'children' should have their own corner, and the adults too, just like in real life.

I don't mind having my children around me. That way they learn more and will be better prepared for the adult life. That is the way my real life is, I do not lock them in any cage just to show that I am better because I am the adult. My children (in both real life and P&S shooter 'children') are always welcome to ask any "stupid" question. There are no stupid questions, just stupid answers.

[OlyFlyer]

Originally Posted by Mikefellh I'm not talking about weight on the body itself...I'm talking about excess weight added to the lens itself by the converter lens. I've had the 3.25kg 90-250mm on my E-300 and I don't have a problem with that. But adding excess weight onto a kit lens (or any lens that has externally moving elements) will cause stress on the lens motor and can cause damage to the lens motor and/or gears.

I misunderstood your comment. I agree, not good to overload lens motor. That's why the idea of lens reverser for E-system lenses is good in theory but in practice it should be used carefully, not with AF on most lenses.

Originally Posted by Mikefellh In the case of the Panasonic L1 and Leica Digilux3 using your metaphor of family, they are the ones who have married into the family. The C, D, & E-series were the brothers & sisters, but now it's time to leave them behind as you've moved away from them and associate with the new adult members of our extended family.

I never actually moved away, I jumped into the "adult life" of SLR about 35 years ago with my Zenit-E (Made in USSR). Never had any P&S. As for being here, in this "Common Home" I do not know yet for how long. Í am not happy for this decision and not very active. Maybe it is time to move on.