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Thread: What a turn-off!

  1. #21

    Default Re: What a turn-off!

    Their high earners start from something like $150k-- not a lot of money considering the cost of living.

    However, we have a lot of hidden taxes here which most people aren't aware of...

    Wai Leong
    ===
    Quote Originally Posted by Sjourn View Post
    From what i know, income tax at its best in Australia is 40% for high earners, the average is 20% for the average joes.

    Com'on DR., you do pay income tax don't you? For Sg, it is staggered % as well from 3.75% to 21% depending on income. You can check here

    Of course nothing is for free in this world, but If I am an average joe, paying for less tax, and still have the benifits of medical, would'nt I be happy ?

    It's no joke, I've been here long enough.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: What a turn-off!

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    Unfortunately, that does not mean the quote is not true.

    They can certainly raise rates and also be more generous with the assistance side at the same time.



    But it is a sensitive issue.... And an important one-- should people expect govt to help them out with health care?
    I m sori, but according to some elite's offspring, we can only blame ourselves if we can't help ourselves
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  3. #23

    Default Re: What a turn-off!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sjourn View Post
    From what i know, income tax at its best in Australia is 40% for high earners, the average is 20% for the average joes.

    Com'on DR., you do pay income tax don't you? For Sg, it is staggered % as well from 3.75% to 21% depending on income. You can check here

    Of course nothing is for free in this world, but If I am an average joe, paying for less tax, and still have the benifits of medical, would'nt I be happy ?
    I am no tax expert. And what I am going to calculate is not likely to be correct. But it would be interesting to do some maths.

    Assuming a person earns AUD2000.00 a month. (reasonable?) Total income =24000.00 a year. Tax at 20% = 4800.00 per year.

    Let us say that he started earning at 25 years old, and assuming a constant income for the next 15 years. He would had paid 72,000.00 by the time he got to 40 years old. Or he would had paid 120,000.00 by the time he reached 50 years old. And I am assuming that his salary did not increase.

    Now, we know that younger people, say younger than 40-50 years old (apart from accidents and trauma, and with exceptions of course) are not likely to consume a lot of medical expenses. So for a long long time, you will be paying the medical bils for other people's medical problems.

    To be fair, of course some of this money would have been used also for other social amenities.

    Let us also assume for a moment a high earner is someone earning 10000.00 per month. (reasonable? I really do not know). He would be earning 120000.00 a year, and paying 48000.00 tax a year. Assuming a constant income for tne next 15 years, he would had paid 720000.00, or 1.2 million in taxes for 25 years.

    I think I am correct to say that both lower income and higher income people in Singaporean will be paying a lot less than their counterpart in Australia.

    So is the medical treatment in Australia free?

    What was your original statement?

    "In Australia, medical is free?"

    Do you sincerely believe that statement to be true? Even though you might belong to the lower income group?



    Quote Originally Posted by sjourn
    It's no joke, I've been here long enough.
    Admittedly I have not been in China long enough. But I had attachments in several Beijing Hospitals for about 4 months. That was 10 years ago. Perhaps time had changed. But during that time, medical treatment was so very ridiculously cheap in Beijing..

  4. #24

    Default Re: What a turn-off!

    Some food for thought .....
    My friend's gf fell down in a bath tub in a KL's hotel and knocked her head against the floor .... he quickly brought her to a PRIVATE clinic nearby at around midnight and wanted to have her head examined. There were no doctor at the clinic at that hour and so someone call for an emergency doctor to come .... twenty minutes later he came and his gf was examined and later went for an X-ray ... and we were waiting outside the glass mirror watching this Indian doctor looking at the x-ray.... (apparantly this Indian doctor was shaking his head while looking at the x-ray, and we were all very worried that something seriously has happened .... but when he came out he was saying that everything is ok .... )
    and you know what .... the whole bill came up to RM30 (S$13) !
    Now if you try going for an emergency switch-up for a minor accident at midnight at one of the general hospitals, tell me how much will the bill come up to? If i am not wrong, from my past experience, close to S$180.

    Someone please tell me that I am wrong ....
    always the Light, .... always.

  5. #25

    Default Re: What a turn-off!

    Quote Originally Posted by Static View Post
    Hi doc. No offence but this is NOT true. I can prove it. Contact me if needed.

    At a particular gov hospital, terminally ill patients have to pay up before they can collect their medication.
    I had left institution practice for a while.

    Working in various hospitals in Singapore for a period of about 20 years, I had never seen a situation where a Singaporean was turned away because of inability to pay.

    There might be the occasional misguided idiotic administrative zealots who make life difficult for some, but I do believe no one is denied medical care in Singapore.

    Honestly I have no love for institution administrators, but it would be important to find out facts and reasons for those situations which you were referring to. I will not deny what you said, but I will first investigate the circumstances.

  6. #26

    Default Re: What a turn-off!

    Quote Originally Posted by Canonised View Post
    Some food for thought .....
    My friend's gf fell down in a bath tub in a KL's hotel and knocked her head against the floor .... he quickly brought her to a PRIVATE clinic nearby at around midnight and wanted to have her head examined. There were no doctor at the clinic at that hour and so someone call for an emergency doctor to come .... twenty minutes later he came and his gf was examined and later went for an X-ray ... and we were waiting outside the glass mirror watching this Indian doctor looking at the x-ray.... (apparantly this Indian doctor was shaking his head while looking at the x-ray, and we were all very worried that something seriously has happened .... but when he came out he was saying that everything is ok .... )
    and you know what .... the whole bill came up to RM30 (S$13) !
    Now if you try going for an emergency switch-up for a minor accident at midnight at one of the general hospitals, tell me how much will the bill come up to? If i am not wrong, from my past experience, close to S$180.

    Someone please tell me that I am wrong ....
    No, you are not likely to be wrong.

    But I remember reading somewhere that wedding packages in JB were cheaper than Singapore. And cars and wanton noodles a lot more affordable. Or was I mistaken?

  7. #27
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    Default Re: What a turn-off!

    Quote Originally Posted by Static View Post
    I m sori, but according to some elite's offspring, we can only blame ourselves if we can't help ourselves
    tis one hurts.

    me pain me pain!
    You'll Never Walk Alone! - i have the best job in the world!

  8. #28
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    Default Re: What a turn-off!

    typically, in some of these free medical countries, because its "Free", they have to prioritise your "illness" or operations, so if it is not life threatening, you will be put into a queue to wait your turn (and that can be weeks or months later)

    As for Singapore, everyone (working folks) is also paying for the medical (even if you are not ill) in the the sense that the medical part of the CPF, can not be withdrawn-except for medical bills.......(even when a person passed away, it gets transferred to the next of kin medical part of the CPF, whereas the rest of the CPF is given (cash)to the NOK)...I hope I did not get my facts wrong here, please correct me if I am wrong. So effectively the medical portion of the CPF is forever in CPF, supporting the medical system in Singapore.

    At the end of the day, when you need the medical treatment, and you can get it (whether pay a lot or free), just be glad that it is available, no point comparing here and there. No system is perfect.

    At least, Singapore medical has some standard (again may not be the best, but it is good enough for most).
    Last edited by pcwe68; 30th October 2006 at 03:19 PM.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: What a turn-off!

    Quote Originally Posted by student View Post
    I am no tax expert. And what I am going to calculate is not likely to be correct. But it would be interesting to do some maths.

    Assuming a person earns AUD2000.00 a month. (reasonable?) Total income =24000.00 a year. Tax at 20% = 4800.00 per year.

    Let us say that he started earning at 25 years old, and assuming a constant income for the next 15 years. He would had paid 72,000.00 by the time he got to 40 years old. Or he would had paid 120,000.00 by the time he reached 50 years old. And I am assuming that his salary did not increase.

    Now, we know that younger people, say younger than 40-50 years old (apart from accidents and trauma, and with exceptions of course) are not likely to consume a lot of medical expenses. So for a long long time, you will be paying the medical bils for other people's medical problems.

    To be fair, of course some of this money would have been used also for other social amenities.

    Let us also assume for a moment a high earner is someone earning 10000.00 per month. (reasonable? I really do not know). He would be earning 120000.00 a year, and paying 48000.00 tax a year. Assuming a constant income for tne next 15 years, he would had paid 720000.00, or 1.2 million in taxes for 25 years.

    I think I am correct to say that both lower income and higher income people in Singaporean will be paying a lot less than their counterpart in Australia.

    So is the medical treatment in Australia free?

    What was your original statement?

    "In Australia, medical is free?"

    Do you sincerely believe that statement to be true? Even though you might belong to the lower income group?..
    Would you feel better if I phrase it as, "In Australia, medical is provided"? It is "free" in context, as the patient does not need to fork up $$ during the appointment, but its not "free" when you dig up where the support come from. From my POV, it is free coz the system says so, but not dwelling where it came from. We do not need to put words under a microscope, do we?


    Quote Originally Posted by student View Post
    Admittedly I have not been in China long enough. But I had attachments in several Beijing Hospitals for about 4 months. That was 10 years ago. Perhaps time had changed. But during that time, medical treatment was so very ridiculously cheap in Beijing..
    I've been here for 8 years, it's become very commercialized business. Yes, cheap to us, but thier income is not at par with the medical expenses.

    Let's say a worker earns RMB600 (SIN 120) a month, one vist for a normal sickness(flu, cough, fever) will be at RMB 20-30, that's already 5% of his monthly, how about complications with sugery, RMB 10K-20K. Hospitals will think twice to accept the patient or not.
    I lup SG, but SG don't love me...

  10. #30

    Default Re: What a turn-off!

    Quote Originally Posted by pcwe68 View Post
    typically, in some of these free medical countries, because its "Free", they have to prioritise your "illness" or operations, so if it is not life threatening, you will be put into a queue to wait your turn (and that can be weeks or months later)

    As for Singapore, everyone (working folks) is also paying for the medical (even if you are not ill) in the the sense that the medical part of the CPF, can not be withdrawn.......(even when a person passed away, it gets transferred to the next of kin medical part of the CPF)...I hope I did not get my facts wrong here, please correct me if I am wrong.

    At the end of the day, when you need the medical treatment, and you can get it (whether pay a lot or free), just be glad that it is available, no point comparing here and there. No system is perfect.

    At least, Singapore medical has some standard (again may not be the best, but it is good enough for most).
    You are perfectly correct.

    There are things about the medical systems in Singapore which I do not agree with. But that is not the issue here.

    Singapore do have some of the best medical systems in the world. In my opinion, America takes the lead in cutting edge medicine. But in providing competent medical care to the country, Singapore can stand proud. Really proud. Even to the less fortunate amongst us.

    The UK health system was the envy of the world at one time, and free! Now it is a mess! Why? The sources for funds to sustain this system is now no more.

    The Australian system is good. Quite good. But it is funded by high taxation. And after a while, people became lulled into thinking that health care in Australia is free. Far from it!

  11. #31
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    Default Re: What a turn-off!

    Quote Originally Posted by pcwe68 View Post
    typically, in some of these free medical countries, because its "Free", they have to prioritise your "illness" or operations, so if it is not life threatening, you will be put into a queue to wait your turn (and that can be weeks or months later)

    As for Singapore, everyone (working folks) is also paying for the medical (even if you are not ill) in the the sense that the medical part of the CPF, can not be withdrawn-except for medical bills.......(even when a person passed away, it gets transferred to the next of kin medical part of the CPF, whereas the rest of the CPF is given (cash)to the NOK)...I hope I did not get my facts wrong here, please correct me if I am wrong. So effectively the medical portion of the CPF is forever in CPF, supporting the medical system in Singapore.

    At the end of the day, when you need the medical treatment, and you can get it (whether pay a lot or free), just be glad that it is available, no point comparing here and there. No system is perfect.

    At least, Singapore medical has some standard (again may not be the best, but it is good enough for most).
    Being a first-world country, it is expected to have medical services available at a reasonable standard, it is not something we should be grateful for. Although it is not the best, then match the cost according to the standards provided.
    陳綺貞 2010 [夏季練習曲] 巡迴演唱會 Cheer Concert 13 Nov 2010 MAX Pavilion@Singapore Expo

  12. #32

    Default Re: What a turn-off!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sjourn View Post
    We do not need to put words under a microscope, do we?
    Someone called me a "wordsmith". I stand gulity as charged. To me words have meaning, and when one uses a word his his own way, others may be confused.

    We do need to use words in its intended meaning.

    "Free" means "free". Means we do not have to fork out anything.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: What a turn-off!

    Quote Originally Posted by student View Post
    Someone called me a "wordsmith". I stand gulity as charged. To me words have meaning, and when one uses a word his his own way, others may be confused.

    We do need to use words in its intended meaning.

    "Free" means "free". Means we do not have to fork out anything.
    No problem, but you cannot assume that everyone is at the same level as your literacy and linguistic skills. And yes I agree, in terms of not dwelling into hidden meanings on the word "Free", free means free.
    I lup SG, but SG don't love me...

  14. #34
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    Default Re: What a turn-off!

    FREE is my fav word

    no, actually pay me $ is better

  15. #35

    Default Re: What a turn-off!

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    FREE is my fav word

    no, actually pay me $ is better
    That would be mighty fine with me too!

  16. #36
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    Default Re: What a turn-off!

    unfortunately for self employed in sg, we have to have super duper amount of never ending Medisave top up, even u hit the max, u still have to continue top up til u 'ahem' (tats wat the officer said) then when u use the medisave, they will need you to top up immediately after that, and at a higher rate then the amount that you use.

    So medisave for 'us' is more like put the money there for yearly renewal of business registration... does not benefit us in any way sound... imagine paying without medisave for surgery my mom just did... lucky got insurance...
    Logging Off. "You have 2,631 messages stored, of a total 400 allowed." don't PM me.

  17. #37
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    Default Re: What a turn-off!

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    FREE is my fav word

    no, actually pay me $ is better
    I can be your $$ collector...it's FREE service please read the fine print on free service

    I lup SG, but SG don't love me...

  18. #38

    Smile Re: What a turn-off!

    of course.


    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post

    But it is a sensitive issue.... And an important one-- should people expect govt to help them out with health care?

  19. #39

    Default Re: What a turn-off!

    Quote Originally Posted by student View Post
    That would be mighty fine with me too!
    Doc, may I ask your opinion ....?
    Will there be any difference if the hospitals in Sg do not spend so much money on their buildings, carpets, plasma tv, high tech items which are not necessary, fanciful display, decor, art pieces, uniforms, etc... , except of course those necessary equipments ....
    Will the saving on all these expensive expenditures, and probably lowering the profit margins of medicines, lower the costs for patients? ... juz curious.
    always the Light, .... always.

  20. #40

    Default Re: What a turn-off!

    Please name the hospital which needs a patient to pay up first before treatment, in Singapore. Very suprised to hear that.

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