How to create that cinema effect?

skyhifi · 27th October 2006

I have got the Canon XM2 (or GL2 in USA) video camera and would like to ask what I can do to create that cinema effect? I have tried out the Framed Mode (which a lot of people recommend to create cinema effect) but it's too jerky when I pan the camera.

Do I need to use filter for the effect? If yes, what filter would you recommend?

Thanks.

dreamerz · 27th October 2006

Originally Posted by skyhifi

I have got the Canon XM2 (or GL2 in USA) video camera and would like to ask what I can do to create that cinema effect? I have tried out the Framed Mode (which a lot of people recommend to create cinema effect) but it's too jerky when I pan the camera.

Do I need to use filter for the effect? If yes, what filter would you recommend?

Thanks.

cinema effect? u mean 16:9 cinema effect?

skyhifi · 27th October 2006

Originally Posted by dreamerz

cinema effect? u mean 16:9 cinema effect?

Well, no. I mean the colour tone. Cinema films always give that kind of tone which I like. More like sepia, but not so strong sepia colour.

ywh · 27th October 2006

Cinema tone was never ever a sepia tone...film has just got way more dynamic range than video. One of the ways to get close to film is to light as if you were shooting film. Shooting in widescreen mode gets in a little closer but nothing helps like great lighting.

dreamerz · 27th October 2006

yay...gd lighting is a main factor...

devilboy · 27th October 2006

Originally Posted by ywh

Cinema tone was never ever a sepia tone...film has just got way more dynamic range than video. One of the ways to get close to film is to light as if you were shooting film. Shooting in widescreen mode gets in a little closer but nothing helps like great lighting.

Try overlays with Adobe Premier 2.0 to get the effect, can play around with the brightness, control, RGB and etc, can get your close but not as direct as those film settings.

Chris Lim · 28th October 2006

i think he's ferering to the filmic look in which alot of people try to achieve. U need to have a cine gamma function in your camera, record at 25P and maybe use P+S technik. Shoot in tru 16:9 format. Also, lighting plays a huge part in it. Good luck.

ywh · 28th October 2006

Thats very true Chris. But before we get to P+S Technik and 25P...the most basic requirement is still lighting. I have seen too much stuff shot on 25P with crap lighting...what's the point?

Learning how to shoot 25P is the next step.

Chris Lim · 28th October 2006

Originally Posted by ywh

Thats very true Chris. But before we get to P+S Technik and 25P...the most basic requirement is still lighting. I have seen too much stuff shot on 25P with crap lighting...what's the point?

Learning how to shoot 25P is the next step.

Yup. lighting is very important in bring out the subject, set mood lighting, directional lighting.....etc hmmmm i'd think maybe if u dun wanna use the P+S, u can also try dvc pro 50, shooting 50m with good lighting, or maybe dvx 102b. with the warm tones. it makes normal video naturally a little filmic already. =)

renewification · 28th October 2006

well there is something call shooting on film and shooting on dv or HD...different feel la...haha

Film is much harder to shoot as all FSV people here would know. Its not for mere mortals to shoot film and do it well..lol.

I am not kidding lol

Chris Lim · 28th October 2006

Originally Posted by renewification

well there is something call shooting on film and shooting on dv or HD...different feel la...haha

Film is much harder to shoot as all FSV people here would know. Its not for mere mortals to shoot film and do it well..lol.

I am not kidding lol

Correct, thats why when i was presented the option of film or video, i opted for video and rented a camera from outside. have more control. Anyway, the title of "DOP" is only used for film shooters, not videographers.

devilboy · 28th October 2006

Originally Posted by Chris Lim

i think he's ferering to the filmic look in which alot of people try to achieve. U need to have a cine gamma function in your camera, record at 25P and maybe use P+S technik. Shoot in tru 16:9 format. Also, lighting plays a huge part in it. Good luck.

Difficult to get movie look if you are doing the project alone, there is too much lighting involvement...
Even if recording in 25P and having Cine Gama tone will not give you the effect close to the movie you want...
Thus try your best to shoot the closest possible, and using your software to edit the tone.

alvinsclee · 28th October 2006

I cut my teeth in lighting before becoming a TP. I agree that lighting makes the biggest impact in achieving that 'film look'.

In truth, it is rather difficult to do. Contrast ratio in film is 1000:1 while that in video is about 40:1 at most. That causes the biggest hurdle. It means film lighting can be contrasty and yet the shadows still look clean. Try that in video and you get murky shadows. Similarly, strong lighting does not wash out the details in film but in video the highlights tend to saturate fast.

No doubt, improvements in electronics have introduced knee functions such as 'Cine Gamma'... but these will never match film in range of linearity. Nonetheless, it is good to pick up some innovative tips and tricks from others trying to achieve it:-
http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/filmlook.html

Happy experimenting!

shojibake · 28th October 2006

It is not recommended that you pan the camera quickly if you're using any of the frame/progressive modes. The low frame rate causes jerky motion. The fast and easy way for the first step is to deinterlace your footage or use the in camera frame mode. Magic Bullet has a plugin for colour correction for this, though the resultant render times are really long.

devilboy · 29th October 2006

Originally Posted by shojibake

It is not recommended that you pan the camera quickly if you're using any of the frame/progressive modes. The low frame rate causes jerky motion. The fast and easy way for the first step is to deinterlace your footage or use the in camera frame mode. Magic Bullet has a plugin for colour correction for this, though the resultant render times are really long.

Bro... need advice here, is the Magic Bullet plugins realistic or very cartoonist? Never try before...

Autumnite · 29th October 2006

If not mistaken the MagicBullet film look filter comes free with Adobe Premiere Pro versions

shojibake · 29th October 2006

Originally Posted by devilboy

Bro... need advice here, is the Magic Bullet plugins realistic or very cartoonist? Never try before...

It's pretty good. But i'd rather deinterlace and use custom colour curves myself, because the render times are very long. Essentially it deinterlaces/colour curve/glow/tints and that's it. You could do that with any of the built in tools of the NLE yourself.

tommon · 30th October 2006

Most the solutions above are good. As a rule of thumb is to shoot in progressive frame mode on video. If not then convert at post. When in P mode, the viewfinder will always look jerky but will be ok at playback. Also when the camera is in Progressive mode threat the entire camera like a film cam. This meaning big heavy cams moves slower and movements done smoothly like on cranes and tripods.

porcupine · 30th October 2006

well, in a nutshell, to achieve a film look, you need a 8/16/35mm film camera with real film. These days, lots of video camcorders (consumer, prosumer) boasts the ability of 'replicating' that film look to no avail. In my own personal research & experience, I've found that the perceived appearance of film (from DVD or Cinema) can be contributed to these factors :-

- the elusive depth of field
- true wide format (16:9)
- progressive scan (pref 24p / 25p)
- that 'color' or many ppl refers to as cine gamma (also lighting of the scene)

Therefore, if you were to use a standard prosumer DV or HD camcorders for your shooting medium, get a true 24p camera (ie: Panasonic AG-DVX100 for SD or my dream camera the Panasonic AG-DVX200 for HD) and of course shoot at 24p. Next get a proper lens converter such as the redrock M2 or P+S and use your current nikon or canon lenses to achieve that shallow dept of field look. Next, get a proper matte box with follow focus and grip (you have a brilliant camera, you need a proper light hood to shield stray light from your shoots, the follow focus is for smooth 'film-like' pull or rack focus type shot). All these with natural light and properly set gamma setting can give you decent quality output (you probably need lighting equipment for difficult situation or for a specific look you are after).

canoner · 31st October 2006

Thanks for all the advises. Quite a lot of these methods are alien to me as I basically just point and shoot for family and school events. Not trying to make a movie. Just thought if there is a simple way to create a movie-look. If I read it properly, it seems more tedious then I thought.

Some more questions, hope you don't mind me asking these basic questions:

1. Is the Canon XM2 framed mode considered as Progressive Mode?
2. Is deinterlacing done only using software and computer?
3. I do notice the jerkiness of the video when I record using framed mode. Heard that the video playback will only be smooth if the TV has progressive scan function. Else, it will still be jerky. Err...please correct me if I got the facts wrong.

Thanks in advance again.

27th October 2006	#1
skyhifi Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 91	How to create that cinema effect? I have got the Canon XM2 (or GL2 in USA) video camera and would like to ask what I can do to create that cinema effect? I have tried out the Framed Mode (which a lot of people recommend to create cinema effect) but it's too jerky when I pan the camera. Do I need to use filter for the effect? If yes, what filter would you recommend? Thanks.

27th October 2006	#4
ywh Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: West Posts: 224	Re: How to create that cinema effect? Cinema tone was never ever a sepia tone...film has just got way more dynamic range than video. One of the ways to get close to film is to light as if you were shooting film. Shooting in widescreen mode gets in a little closer but nothing helps like great lighting. Last edited by ywh; 27th October 2006 at 11:15 AM.

27th October 2006	#5
dreamerz Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Tampines Posts: 881	Re: How to create that cinema effect? yay...gd lighting is a main factor... __________________ Buying a DSLR/SLR doesn't make you a photographer. It makes you a DSLR/SLR owner My Site

28th October 2006	#7
Chris Lim Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 3,021	Re: How to create that cinema effect? i think he's ferering to the filmic look in which alot of people try to achieve. U need to have a cine gamma function in your camera, record at 25P and maybe use P+S technik. Shoot in tru 16:9 format. Also, lighting plays a huge part in it. Good luck. __________________ email: Chris@CoffeestainsPhotography.com Website: CoffeestainsPhotography

28th October 2006	#8
ywh Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: West Posts: 224	Re: How to create that cinema effect? Thats very true Chris. But before we get to P+S Technik and 25P...the most basic requirement is still lighting. I have seen too much stuff shot on 25P with crap lighting...what's the point? Learning how to shoot 25P is the next step.

28th October 2006	#10
renewification Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 544	Re: How to create that cinema effect? well there is something call shooting on film and shooting on dv or HD...different feel la...haha Film is much harder to shoot as all FSV people here would know. Its not for mere mortals to shoot film and do it well..lol. I am not kidding lol

28th October 2006	#13
alvinsclee Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Redhill, Singapore Posts: 346	Re: How to create that cinema effect? I cut my teeth in lighting before becoming a TP. I agree that lighting makes the biggest impact in achieving that 'film look'. In truth, it is rather difficult to do. Contrast ratio in film is 1000:1 while that in video is about 40:1 at most. That causes the biggest hurdle. It means film lighting can be contrasty and yet the shadows still look clean. Try that in video and you get murky shadows. Similarly, strong lighting does not wash out the details in film but in video the highlights tend to saturate fast. No doubt, improvements in electronics have introduced knee functions such as 'Cine Gamma'... but these will never match film in range of linearity. Nonetheless, it is good to pick up some innovative tips and tricks from others trying to achieve it:- http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/filmlook.html Happy experimenting! __________________ * Take only pictures, leave only footprints, kill only time... and live a life! * :) Alvin Last edited by alvinsclee; 28th October 2006 at 06:06 PM.

28th October 2006	#14
shojibake Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 385	Re: How to create that cinema effect? It is not recommended that you pan the camera quickly if you're using any of the frame/progressive modes. The low frame rate causes jerky motion. The fast and easy way for the first step is to deinterlace your footage or use the in camera frame mode. Magic Bullet has a plugin for colour correction for this, though the resultant render times are really long.

29th October 2006	#16
Autumnite Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 642	Re: How to create that cinema effect? If not mistaken the MagicBullet film look filter comes free with Adobe Premiere Pro versions __________________ W www.lightedpixels.com \| B alwinlim.livejournal.com

30th October 2006	#18
tommon Deregistered Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Currently, Singapore but hope Posts: 729	Re: How to create that cinema effect? Most the solutions above are good. As a rule of thumb is to shoot in progressive frame mode on video. If not then convert at post. When in P mode, the viewfinder will always look jerky but will be ok at playback. Also when the camera is in Progressive mode threat the entire camera like a film cam. This meaning big heavy cams moves slower and movements done smoothly like on cranes and tripods.

30th October 2006	#19
porcupine New Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 30	Re: How to create that cinema effect? well, in a nutshell, to achieve a film look, you need a 8/16/35mm film camera with real film. These days, lots of video camcorders (consumer, prosumer) boasts the ability of 'replicating' that film look to no avail. In my own personal research & experience, I've found that the perceived appearance of film (from DVD or Cinema) can be contributed to these factors :- - the elusive depth of field - true wide format (16:9) - progressive scan (pref 24p / 25p) - that 'color' or many ppl refers to as cine gamma (also lighting of the scene) Therefore, if you were to use a standard prosumer DV or HD camcorders for your shooting medium, get a true 24p camera (ie: Panasonic AG-DVX100 for SD or my dream camera the Panasonic AG-DVX200 for HD) and of course shoot at 24p. Next get a proper lens converter such as the redrock M2 or P+S and use your current nikon or canon lenses to achieve that shallow dept of field look. Next, get a proper matte box with follow focus and grip (you have a brilliant camera, you need a proper light hood to shield stray light from your shoots, the follow focus is for smooth 'film-like' pull or rack focus type shot). All these with natural light and properly set gamma setting can give you decent quality output (you probably need lighting equipment for difficult situation or for a specific look you are after).

31st October 2006	#20
canoner Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 227	Re: How to create that cinema effect? Thanks for all the advises. Quite a lot of these methods are alien to me as I basically just point and shoot for family and school events. Not trying to make a movie. Just thought if there is a simple way to create a movie-look. If I read it properly, it seems more tedious then I thought. Some more questions, hope you don't mind me asking these basic questions: 1. Is the Canon XM2 framed mode considered as Progressive Mode? 2. Is deinterlacing done only using software and computer? 3. I do notice the jerkiness of the video when I record using framed mode. Heard that the video playback will only be smooth if the TV has progressive scan function. Else, it will still be jerky. Err...please correct me if I got the facts wrong. Thanks in advance again.