Some Advice for non-Canon User

[Hacker]

I'm thinking of getting a Canon system exclusively for taking portraits for my personal use. The requirments for me is less DOF which I cherish, but do not want to get MF (too bulky). Which will I be better off considering the two:

Canon 30D/400D using 50mm f1.2L (I gain some DOF)
Canon 5D using 85mm f1.2L

DR is important for me after DOF, but not absolutely a must.

Is there any other combination that I'm missing or need to know? Tonality, VF brightness, focusing, etc?

[fWord]

If you're only taking photos for personal use, it might not be necessary to use an 85mm f/1.2. Personally, if I had the choice I'd like a 5D and a 135mm f/2. But that would also depend on what sort of focal length you need.

From almost non-existent experience, I think your lighting will be a bigger worry and will need a greater investment of time and money than the camera and lens.

[jsbn]

Originally Posted by Hacker I'm thinking of getting a Canon system exclusively for taking portraits for my personal use. The requirments for me is less DOF which I cherish, but do not want to get MF (too bulky). Which will I be better off considering the two: Canon 30D/400D using 50mm f1.2L (I gain some DOF) Canon 5D using 85mm f1.2L DR is important for me after DOF, but not absolutely a must. Is there any other combination that I'm missing or need to know? Tonality, VF brightness, focusing, etc?

Portraits for personal use?

I assume u'll be on a budget. The difference between ranges of cameras in the EOS lineup as well as price difference is usually targeted at different market segments.

In ur case, I assume u're a family man. 400D with 50mm f/1.4 will suit u well enuff even for DOF. U dun need Ls to achieve 'that perfect bokeh'. U can probably throw $7K on a 5D and 85L and u can tell urself that "But it has DR! It has great DOF!", another chap can throw $2K on his 400D w/50 f/1.4 and probably achieve the same result on the same lighting with the same pose and putting 2 side-by-side, there's a 80% chance u wun be able to spot the diff on a properly calibarated monitor.

First of all, ask urself how much are u willing to throw (since a (D)SLR system isn't just camera, lens, full-stop).

Next ask urself how much time are u willing to devote to that system to bring the best out of it and ur moola's worth.

And finally, that common grouse which many people here had seen about kit lenses is that "they are not sharp" which can be easily corrected with photoshop (its a little ironic that these people open their photos in photoshop, pixel peep and yet dun really seem willing to apply a little slight sharpening to overcome small issues).

[weekh]

Originally Posted by Hacker Canon 30D/400D using 50mm f1.2L (I gain some DOF) Canon 5D using 85mm f1.2L

50f1.4 wide open on ff, cropped to verticle.

Not sure about the 50mm f1.2L image and the bokeh but the 50 f1.4 works pretty well on a 1.6x body. Moreover this option is affordable for u to play play. I find the f1.4 pretty sharp and will not hesitate to use it wide open.

The 5D with 85mm f1.2L is of course the best option for portrait purpose.

[alvinchuan]

Originally Posted by weekh 50f1.4 wide open on ff, cropped to verticle. Not sure about the 50mm f1.2L image and the bokeh but the 50 f1.4 works pretty well on a 1.6x body. Moreover this option is affordable for u to play play. I find the f1.4 pretty sharp and will not hesitate to use it wide open. The 5D with 85mm f1.2L is of course the best option for portrait purpose.

Hi Weekh

Good example sharpness and DOf.

How about the cheap 50mm f1.8 is it comparable. I remember reading it some where long time ago it is also very good.

Cheers

Alvin

[Hacker]

85-90mm is what I like best in 35mm terms. Given that I have some options: 50mm 1.2/1.4, or 85mm 1.2 on FF, is the quality then not very much different for say the 5D and the 400D if I print at best, 8R or 10R?

Sorry for these questions as I'm not familiar with the Canon range of lenses with DSLRs. Though I have considered 1.3x crop factor like the Leica M8, there is no suitable lens to fit the 85-90mm range.

So my question is: if I go the 1.6x FOV and save $$, is the difference in IQ given that I have shallow DOF using a 1.2 or even 1.4 much different? DPReview for the D400 does not compare with the higher models of Canon's current lineup. I also have not seen any comparison so far.

[fWord]

Originally Posted by Hacker 85-90mm is what I like best in 35mm terms. Given that I have some options: 50mm 1.2/1.4, or 85mm 1.2 on FF, is the quality then not very much different for say the 5D and the 400D if I print at best, 8R or 10R? Sorry for these questions as I'm not familiar with the Canon range of lenses with DSLRs. Though I have considered 1.3x crop factor like the Leica M8, there is no suitable lens to fit the 85-90mm range. So my question is: if I go the 1.6x FOV and save $$, is the difference in IQ given that I have shallow DOF using a 1.2 or even 1.4 much different? DPReview for the D400 does not compare with the higher models of Canon's current lineup. I also have not seen any comparison so far.

The 50mm on a 400D would definitely give you the field of view of a 80mm lens, but the problem (well, it's a characteristic) is that it may not offer enough perspective compression. I would like to get flatter rendition of characterisics and a cleaner background and a longer lens really helps for this, that's why I would like an 85mm f/1.8 on a 5D instead, given the choice. 135mm on a 5D would be even nicer though, I feel.

With a short subject distance and increased subject to background distance you'll get nice bokeh anyway, so a 50mm f/1.4 on a 400D would still give you that. But a longer lens on a FF would give a more simplified background.

[JediForce4ever]

5D+ 85mmf1.2L

You wont go wrong with that.

[weekh]

Originally Posted by alvinchuan Hi Weekh Good example sharpness and DOf. How about the cheap 50mm f1.8 is it comparable. I remember reading it some where long time ago it is also very good. Cheers Alvin

the f1.8 bokeh will not be that nice for portrait... u can read about the bokeh difference of the 50mm f1.4 and f1.8 in photo.net http://www.photo.net/equipment/canon/ef50/

[jsbn]

Originally Posted by Hacker 85-90mm is what I like best in 35mm terms. Given that I have some options: 50mm 1.2/1.4, or 85mm 1.2 on FF, is the quality then not very much different for say the 5D and the 400D if I print at best, 8R or 10R?

I'd blown upto 10Rs on a camera that would hardly even be thought of 'advanced', nothing more with a Konica-Minolta Dynax5D, 18-70 kit lens with no problems.

Gear ability alone doesn't directly translate into print picture quality. Between lens & body, there are just so many factors in between that control the final quality of the output print - lab operator, printer, paper used, etc.

What are u looking out for in a quality print?
Composition ability depends much on ur own, we can't help on this.
Lens & perspective? If u're looking on this solely, the 5D & 85L would be the best. But its not just over $7+K u'll be throwing out on these 2. If u were to put in extra lenses like a 50 f1.4 and a 135, including the flash. We are looking at ur possible budget for $10K.

Quote: So my question is: if I go the 1.6x FOV and save $$, is the difference in IQ given that I have shallow DOF using a 1.2 or even 1.4 much different? DPReview for the D400 does not compare with the higher models of Canon's current lineup. I also have not seen any comparison so far.

400D, 30D, 5D, 1-series. Why are they listed and priced as such? Its like putting a Daihatsu, Honda VTEC, BMW M & McLaren side by side at the starting point and shouting "GO!" thus if there's such a comparison chart, the McLaren beats all hands flat and everyone will be screaming for a McLaren instead. That's where prices come in - get the best u can afford.

The DOF between a 1.2 & 1.4 huh? Well, to be really honest, I can't tell the diff between these 2. But if u'd wanna put a 50 f/1.0 and a f/1.4 side by side, u'll probably only get ur child's eyes (or wherever u'd wanna focus) sharp with the 50 f/1.0.

[weekh]

the 85 f1.2 is great on both a ff and 1.6x aps sized sensor cam.
The bokeh produced is one of its kind.

Investing in a 5D + 85 f1.2 isn't cheap. I've not used the 5D before and not sure how the AF perform. U'll need very good focusing technic to use the 85mm L and the 45 points focus on the 1Ds is really a must. U can't simply focus and recompose with the 85mm at wide aperture. Focus will then be off and u'll get frustrated.

My advise is to go for 400D and a 50mm f1.4 or the new 50mm f1.2 or a 2nd hand 85mm f1.2L. Then see if u like the Canon system and proceed from there.

Not point getting a 5D locally at around $5k. Prices in US is dropping to about USD2000 and replacement will be due soon.

[Hacker]

I would love to see some samples of 50mm f1.2 on a D400. Enough samples of the 5D and the 85mm f1.2. Does anyone know where I can view such samples, or if these samples even exist?

[weekh]

85mm f1.2 on ff

[Hacker]

Originally Posted by weekh 85mm f1.2 on ff

Thanks, there are many 85mm f1.2 shots. Are there any 50mm f1.2 shots on a 1.6x body?

Quote from http://www.the-digital-picture.com/R...ns-Review.aspx

"While the 85 f/1.2 falls short of Canon's top AF performers, the Canon EF 50mm f/1.2 L USM Lens is reported to compete favorably with the best. Ring USM is quiet and FTM (Full Time Manual) focusing is enabled. This is a mechanical manual focusing lens - unlike the 85 f/1.2's focus-by-wire design. I have yet to learn if the 50 f/1.2 extends during focusing."

Not sure this is accurate or not....

[sehsuan]

Originally Posted by JediForce4ever 5D+ 85mmf1.2L You wont go wrong with that.

How about a 400/2.8 + a full frame machine?

[Hacker]

Originally Posted by weekh My advise is to go for 400D and a 50mm f1.4 or the new 50mm f1.2 or a 2nd hand 85mm f1.2L. Then see if u like the Canon system and proceed from there.

I think I will go with the 400D and the 50mm f1.2. I just need samples. Anyone?

[Hacker]

Originally Posted by jsbn But its not just over $7+K u'll be throwing out on these 2. If u were to put in extra lenses like a 50 f1.4 and a 135, including the flash. We are looking at ur possible budget for $10K.

I do not need anything else. I merely need a portable camera with a narrow DOF for those 1-2% of shots that I miss. (I considered the Mamiya ZD and found it too heavy).

[jsbn]

Originally Posted by sehsuan How about a 400/2.8 + a full frame machine?

Hassy H2D/39 lah... Best.

[jsbn]

Originally Posted by Hacker I do not need anything else. I merely need a portable camera with a narrow DOF for those 1-2% of shots that I miss. (I considered the Mamiya ZD and found it too heavy).

A little curious, what cam are u using now that's causing u to miss that 1 or 2% shots which u can't simply make it up by getting a faster lens?

[alvinchuan]

Originally Posted by weekh the f1.8 bokeh will not be that nice for portrait... u can read about the bokeh difference of the 50mm f1.4 and f1.8 in photo.net http://www.photo.net/equipment/canon/ef50/

WeeKh

Thanks for link You are right with the bokeh. I brought it up because I thought it is cheapest option to try.

Originally Posted by Hacker I think I will go with the 400D and the 50mm f1.2. I just need samples. Anyone?

Hi Hacker
May I sugguest since you have more a less make up your mind, why not make trip down to a camera shop with your CF to test it and see for yourself. If you are in Singapore you can go to CP @ marina to try it. They also have a desktop computer for you to check your shots.

cheers

Alvin