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Thread: hyperfocal distance

  1. #21
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: hyperfocal distance

    wah all so cheem one

    Hyperfocal distance is the focal distance where you get maximum DOF for the aperture that you choose.

    Last time when policeman wear shorts ar, lens have hyperfocal distance markings on the lens,
    nowadays ar, dun no what happened to it already

  2. #22
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: hyperfocal distance

    Quote Originally Posted by Scaglietti View Post
    Please also note that DOF marking on lenses are usually for 35mm format and based on assumed print size and viewing distance. For DX format, the DOF is different.
    lens is the same what, how come DOF is different wan?
    the image is just cropped
    does the sensor have something to do with it?
    It records the image differently?

  3. #23
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    Default Re: hyperfocal distance

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    lens is the same what, how come DOF is different wan?
    the image is just cropped
    does the sensor have something to do with it?
    It records the image differently?
    actually it does... cuz the circle of confusion is smaller...

  4. #24
    Senior Member zac08's Avatar
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    Default Re: hyperfocal distance

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    lens is the same what, how come DOF is different wan?
    the image is just cropped
    does the sensor have something to do with it?
    It records the image differently?
    COC??

    The circle of confusion is probably the key to why they remove the markings... getting too different with all the different cameras
    Michael Lim
    My Flickr Site

  5. #25

    Default Re: hyperfocal distance

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    lens is the same what, how come DOF is different wan?
    the image is just cropped
    does the sensor have something to do with it?
    It records the image differently?
    Understand the principle behind depth-of-field and circle-of-confusion, you will figure that out...

  6. #26

    Default Re: hyperfocal distance

    Last edited by Scaglietti; 18th October 2006 at 05:31 PM.

  7. #27
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: hyperfocal distance

    wah too many calculations to remember already

    I think i will just take pictures and see the difference on the image
    from what i read the COC also depends on the printed size

  8. #28

    Default Re: hyperfocal distance

    You are right, Ortega.

    I've never bothered to calculate myself. But it is a good thing to know if you are seriously into landscape photography. I think charts are the easiest to use. You can print one and keep it in your camera bag. It might come in handy.

    Use the largest print size you think you might print or display for calculation... with anything print size smaller you'll be quite safe.
    Last edited by Scaglietti; 18th October 2006 at 05:46 PM.

  9. #29
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: hyperfocal distance

    so the answer is to vary the aperture and choose the best picture.
    3 stops bigger and 3 stops smaller, but exposure still at +/- 0 EV

  10. #30
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: hyperfocal distance

    no wonder it is called the "circle-of-confusion"

  11. #31
    Senior Member Ansel's Avatar
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    Default Re: hyperfocal distance

    Try this chart. Download the programm and you can print out the charts for yourself:

    http://www.dofmaster.com/charts.html

    Very useful!

  12. #32
    Senior Member creampuff's Avatar
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    Default Re: hyperfocal distance

    Quote Originally Posted by Scaglietti View Post
    Strictly speaking no.

    There is one component that you need to take into consideration: print size and view distance.

    Let me explain DOF first.

    In a photo, there is only 1 plane that will be in focus. Moving away from this plane, the blurness will increase with the distance from this plane of focus. Human eye has limited resolution. When the blurness is very small, our eye will still register this small blurness as in focus. Therefore, when the print is big or distance is close, our eyes can detect more blurness. (Think big poster appearing focus when far, but blur when close.) This range of distance from the plane of focus where object appear focused to our eyes is the DOF.

    Therefore, factors affecting DOF is:

    1. Final pictue - print size & view distance (in calculators that doesn't require you to input this, they already made an assumption on the print size and viewing distance, usually 8x10in print at 1ft viewing distance)

    2. Sensor or film size

    3. Aperture

    4. Lens focal length

    5. Distance of subject

    Now, back to your question "is it possible to SET the hyperfocal distance right away on the lens?"
    The answer is no, unless you have already in your mind the the print size/viewing distance, and you can do a mental DOF/hyperfocal distance calculations.

    My suggestion is to use the link I posted to make the calculations and print a copy of the hyperfocal distance chart and keep it with you.
    How in the world did you come up with Point #1 (Print size and view distance)? To the best of my knowledge of photography, DOF relates to the area of sharpness when making a photographic image, not how the eye perceives or compensates when viewing an image as you have stated.

    YES, IT IS DEFINITELY POSSIBLE TO SET THE HYPERFOCAL DISTANCE RIGHT AWAY ON THE LENS so long as there is:
    1) A distance scale on the lens
    2) Depth of field markings on the lens
    3) You set your camera's aperture to the corresponding DOF markings.

    Alternatively, one can use DOF tables if available for the focal length and aperture in use.

    frenchbean is correct (Post #15)

  13. #33

    Default Re: hyperfocal distance

    Quote Originally Posted by Scaglietti View Post
    errr... not correct. Hyperfocal distance is the minimum distance at which the upper limit of the DOF is infinity.
    Frenchbean is correct.

    Any focusing point nearer or farther than hyperfocal distance, the DOF is smaller.

    If any nearer, then the DOF(far end) won't reach infinity while the gain in the DOF(near end) is not as great as the loss in DOF(far end). As a result, the DOF is smaller.

    If any farther, then DOF(far end) would remain at infinity anyway but the DOF(near end) will be moved further out. Thus DOF is smaller.

    So DOF is at maximum if focused at Hyperfocal distance point which is, as you have said, the minimum distance at which the upper limit of the DOF is infinity.
    Last edited by Clockunder; 19th October 2006 at 12:58 AM.

  14. #34

    Default Re: hyperfocal distance

    I think Scaglietti is right about DOF being affected by print size and view distance.

    As discussed earlier in this thread, it's due to difference in COC (Circle of Confusion).

    Different picture size requires different magnification from original image on sensor to physical picture size. The print size and viewing distance affects what we perceive as being "in focus".

    That is also why the sensor size is one of the factors determining DOF and the formulae and calculation tables have assumed a certain magnification and viewing distance.

    I think a few articles in The luminous landscape, when put together, explains this. DOF, understanding sharpness, COC etc.

    One of them is (within which there are other links to related articles) :
    http://luminous-landscape.com/tutori...ries/dof.shtml
    Last edited by Clockunder; 19th October 2006 at 01:09 AM.

  15. #35

    Default Re: hyperfocal distance

    Quote Originally Posted by creampuff View Post
    How in the world did you come up with Point #1 (Print size and view distance)? To the best of my knowledge of photography, DOF relates to the area of sharpness when making a photographic image, not how the eye perceives or compensates when viewing an image as you have stated.

    YES, IT IS DEFINITELY POSSIBLE TO SET THE HYPERFOCAL DISTANCE RIGHT AWAY ON THE LENS so long as there is:
    1) A distance scale on the lens
    2) Depth of field markings on the lens
    3) You set your camera's aperture to the corresponding DOF markings.

    Alternatively, one can use DOF tables if available for the focal length and aperture in use.

    frenchbean is correct (Post #15)
    Please read the posts and links posted above... DOF is a lot to do with the eyes perception of sharpness. That's where print size and viewing distance come into play. Took me a long while to grasp this.

    DOF markings on the lens do not apply to DX or APS size sensors, albiet you can use it as a guide.

    Ok ok... frenchbean is correct. I am more used to defining hyperfocal distance in another way.
    Last edited by Scaglietti; 19th October 2006 at 08:46 AM.

  16. #36

    Default Re: hyperfocal distance

    Ooooooo......this is deeeeeeep!

    We did a couple of charts for digital Nikon and Canon shooters some time back. Check out this post from the IR subforum:

    Hyperfocus Charts

    Can't tell if the charts are still visible (cause my corporate office is blocking traffic from pBase) but I believe they should be.

    _

  17. #37

    Default Re: hyperfocal distance

    wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....one day didnt log in and my thread was flooded with very interesting discussions.

    to all,
    i'll digest your msg when i have time.now office hour...cannot skive

    guess what guys?

    my 18-200VR doesnt have the aperture scale readings....ARGH!
    so i cant use the method some of the websites posted.humpf.

    how how how?

  18. #38

    Default Re: hyperfocal distance

    for a newbie like me, you guys post are really very confusing.
    i really liat bo giu ah!

    so how?now my 18-200 lens no aperture readings.can still set hyperfocal?
    if so, how?

    i tried the nikonians website already.

    assuming D200 at f11 at 20mm, i should focus at 0.94meters.

    so can i from the above results, just focus at about 1m and expect everything from 1 meter to infinity will be sharp?

    i need this answer b4 i fly to japan next monday.pls help.

  19. #39

    Default Re: hyperfocal distance

    Quote Originally Posted by jeanie View Post
    for a newbie like me, you guys post are really very confusing.
    i really liat bo giu ah!

    so how?now my 18-200 lens no aperture readings.can still set hyperfocal?
    if so, how?

    i tried the nikonians website already.

    assuming D200 at f11 at 20mm, i should focus at 0.94meters.

    so can i from the above results, just focus at about 1m and expect everything from 1 meter to infinity will be sharp?

    i need this answer b4 i fly to japan next monday.pls help.
    f/11, 20mm on a D200, you should focus at 1.8m so that, theoretically, anything from 1.8m onwards will be in focus.

    You can refer to the chart in my previous post or if you want something more "Nikonian", then download the PDF chart from here:

    Nikonian Hyperfocal Table

    Just be careful to use the right table, there's one that gives the distance in feet and another in metres.

    _
    Last edited by deadpixel; 19th October 2006 at 03:45 PM.

  20. #40

    Default Re: hyperfocal distance

    Quote Originally Posted by jeanie View Post
    for a newbie like me, you guys post are really very confusing.
    i really liat bo giu ah!

    so how?now my 18-200 lens no aperture readings.can still set hyperfocal?
    if so, how?

    i tried the nikonians website already.

    assuming D200 at f11 at 20mm, i should focus at 0.94meters.

    so can i from the above results, just focus at about 1m and expect everything from 1 meter to infinity will be sharp?

    i need this answer b4 i fly to japan next monday.pls help.

    According to the chart here...
    http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tut...l-distance.htm

    Print size: 10 inches (quite safe number to use)
    View distance: 25cm (typical view distance)
    Film/sensor size: digital SLR with CF of 1.5x
    Hyperfocal distance with f/11 & 20mm is 1.7m

    Set focus at 1.7m then the object from 1.7m to infinity will appear focused on your photos sized not more than 10 inches.

    If you want to be safe, focus at slightly longer distance like 2.0m.

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