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Thread: Men are better Photographer and Women better subject.

  1. #101
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    Default Re: Men are better Photographer and Women better subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silence Sky View Post
    Hello Satay:

    If we go down this path, Man will be the ultimate winner, because the female list will be exhuasted real soon. Is it an unbias method to determine the better one? I do not think so, or at least it is not going to convince many here.

    I am thinking of using statistic inferencing to get an unbias conclusion. Maybe we can use hypothesis testing to get answer at certain confident level. What do you think?
    *faint*

    yes please do a thesis on it, it's much better that way. your first challenge will be defining what is meant by 'a better photographer'

    good luck!

  2. #102

    Default Re: Men are better Photographer and Women better subject.

    I think the original wording of the subject is stereotyped and when that happens, there is bound to be counter-arguments.

    It's like when someone says an expensive camera lens takes better pictures than a kit lens.
    Then we will hear the over-used argument "Even a pro can take better pictures with a point and shoot compared to a newbie with L lenses. It's the photographer, not the camera." This is an unfair statement cos you are comparing apples to oranges. (What if both are pros with equal standards?) And we don't often see people who make that statement use kit lenses or point-and-shoots if they have a choice to use their $2k lens! What should be said is that expensive lenses are better optically and in almost every aspect where quality is concered, but the final image is more than just equipment.

    Maybe for this thread, it's better to phrase the subject as "Men tend to be more interested in photogrpahy and there are more females as subjects". If that's the case, I must surely agree with it 100%. You can't deny that certain professions, hobbies and interests attract more men, and others have more women. Soccer, cricket, cars, electronic gadgets, photography are some egs for men. For women, nursing, baking, shopping, human resource work are other egs.

    As for models... I have a simple theory. It's easier for women to LOOK good than for men. For women, if you are short, people say you are a petite cutie-pie. If you are tall, they gawk at you and say "HOT GAL! U can be a model!" For guys, if you are short, sorry man... Unless you have killer looks, eg Tom Cruise.

    For women, don't underestimate the power of makeups and hair styling. We have seen how an ordinary face can be transformed from a plain Jane to an attractive one. Guys? How much make up can u put? Mascara? No way! Hair? Limited styles u can do compared to women.

    Body wise... Women can easily starve and diet themselves. When they look thin, people look at them in admiration. Guys? If u are thin, u'll be better off wearing layers of clothing to hide the sticking bones! Women if they are fair, men will gawk and go "Wow!" Like a well-preserved treaure. Men who are fair... Oh my... U look weak. Women who are tanned -- Wow, she's a sporty babe!

    Assets... Women who are lucky to be well-endowed (genetics -- nothing much for u to control unless u are rich enough to pay for silicons)... What can I say. half the battle is won. Flaunt them! (Nevermind if the face is quite average-looking.) Strobes will go off like crazy. Men? U wanna show off your assets... Sure... Proper diet, 4-5x/wk in the gym, get that 6-pack abs, bulging biceps, huge pecs then we can talk. It's a lot of hard work. Women don't have to go thru all that sweat and pain. Unless of cos they are body-builders.

    So no surprises we hardly find any male models in CS. And no surprises too that newbies pay female wannabe models to pose in awkward, unflattering positions whose final images are junk or probably will be more suitable for mere ogling.

    Next time u identify those images, bear in mind what I mention in the above statements. There might be some truths in them!
    Last edited by David; 16th October 2006 at 10:43 PM.

  3. #103

    Default Re: Men are better Photographer and Women better subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin View Post
    i think we're making progress here, so now you get an idea why things are not so definitive as to be able to label one sex as being better than the other? i find it an impossible task.

    i believe that women are preferred in many instances, but when it comes to sexual comparison as to who is better and who is worse, i don't see any ground for it
    Hello Eikin:

    For this instance, it is not easy to determine which sex is better at making better photograph.
    However, when I say man can better appreciate soccer and better handle auto mobile, would you have problem relating to these statement?
    Just want to hear you view. It is ok, I am not opening a new frontier with you.

    I think the way I phrase my statement has a great impact.

    Now this statement:
    Men are the preferred photographer and woman the preferred subject
    Feel any difference?

  4. #104
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    Default Re: Men are better Photographer and Women better subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silence Sky View Post
    Hello Eikin:

    For this instance, it is not easy to determine which sex is better at making better photograph.
    However, when I say man can better appreciate soccer and better handle auto mobile, would you have problem relating to these statement?
    Just want to hear you view. It is ok, I am not opening a new frontier with you.

    I think the way I phrase my statement has a great impact.

    Now this statement:
    Men are the preferred photographer and woman the preferred subject
    Feel any difference?
    you don't get it.

    what do you want to get out of this man-woman comparison thing?

    why don't you start a thread like 'nikon is better than canon' or 'canon is better than nikon'?

    see the point?

  5. #105

    Default Re: Men are better Photographer and Women better subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    I'm not sure, really really not sure.
    but I have seen many many male photographers here shoot many famale models, their pictures are so so, (I'm more kind, use the word "so so", many people just simplely commented the photos are sucks).

    as for me, I don't think I'm that good also, cos people also commented my photos "sucks".
    Hello Catchlights:

    You are being very humble. I like your pictures, they are nice.

  6. #106

    Default Re: Men are better Photographer and Women better subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin View Post
    you don't get it.

    what do you want to get out of this man-woman comparison thing?

    why don't you start a thread like 'nikon is better than canon' or 'canon is better than nikon'?

    see the point?
    What do I want to get out of this comparison thing.
    My answer to your question is:
    Some well structured and credible arguments to knock down this statement.
    And in the process learn how to communicate difficult ideas with people and learn how people put forward their point of views.

    David's post is a good one. But not for long, because it is going to be very different when I summarised his words.
    Last edited by Silence Sky; 16th October 2006 at 11:05 PM.

  7. #107
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    Default Re: Men are better Photographer and Women better subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silence Sky View Post
    What do I want to get out of this comparison thing.
    My answer to your question is:
    Some well structured and credible arguments to knock down this statement.
    And in the process learn how to communicate difficult ideas with people and learn how people put forward their point of views.

    David's post is a good one.
    good for you then! have a good conversation with David then

  8. #108
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    Default Re: Men are better Photographer and Women better subject.

    if you want to have something for practice, let me give you one.

    your signature

    'Though a picture is silence, it always seems trying to tell me something.'

    does the picture try to tell you something or is it you who is trying to read into the picture?

    have fun!

  9. #109

    Default Re: Men are better Photographer and Women better subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin View Post
    if you want to have something for practice, let me give you one.

    your signature

    'Though a picture is silence, it always seems trying to tell me something.'

    does the picture try to tell you something or is it you who is trying to read into the picture?

    have fun!

  10. #110
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    Default Re: Men are better Photographer and Women better subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    I think the original wording of the subject is stereotyped and when that happens, there is bound to be counter-arguments.

    It's like when someone says an expensive camera lens takes better pictures than a kit lens.
    Then we will hear the over-used argument "Even a pro can take better pictures with a point and shoot compared to a newbie with L lenses. It's the photographer, not the camera." This is an unfair statement cos you are comparing apples to oranges. (What if both are pros with equal standards?) And we don't often see people who make that statement use kit lenses or point-and-shoots if they have a choice to use their $2k lens! What should be said is that expensive lenses are better optically and in almost every aspect where quality is concered, but the final image is more than just equipment.

    Maybe for this thread, it's better to phrase the subject as "Men tend to be more interested in photogrpahy and there are more females as subjects". If that's the case, I must surely agree with it 100%. You can't deny that certain professions, hobbies and interests attract more men, and others have more women. Soccer, cricket, cars, electronic gadgets, photography are some egs for men. For women, nursing, baking, shopping, human resource work are other egs.

    As for models... I have a simple theory. It's easier for women to LOOK good than for men. For women, if you are short, people say you are a petite cutie-pie. If you are tall, they gawk at you and say "HOT GAL! U can be a model!" For guys, if you are short, sorry man... Unless you have killer looks, eg Tom Cruise.

    For women, don't underestimate the power of makeups and hair styling. We have seen how an ordinary face can be transformed from a plain Jane to an attractive one. Guys? How much make up can u put? Mascara? No way! Hair? Limited styles u can do compared to women.

    Body wise... Women can easily starve and diet themselves. When they look thin, people look at them in admiration. Guys? If u are thin, u'll be better off wearing layers of clothing to hide the sticking bones! Women if they are fair, men will gawk and go "Wow!" Like a well-preserved treaure. Men who are fair... Oh my... U look weak. Women who are tanned -- Wow, she's a sporty babe!

    Assets... Women who are lucky to be well-endowed (genetics -- nothing much for u to control unless u are rich enough to pay for silicons)... What can I say. half the battle is won. Flaunt them! (Nevermind if the face is quite average-looking.) Strobes will go off like crazy. Men? U wanna show off your assets... Sure... Proper diet, 4-5x/wk in the gym, get that 6-pack abs, bulging biceps, huge pecs then we can talk. It's a lot of hard work. Women don't have to go thru all that sweat and pain. Unless of cos they are body-builders.

    So no surprises we hardly find any male models in CS. And no surprises too that newbies pay female wannabe models to pose in awkward, unflattering positions whose final images are junk or probably will be more suitable for mere ogling.

    Next time u identify those images, bear in mind what I mention in the above statements. There might be some truths in them!
    That's a most dumbass analysis I'd ever seen. I'm fair, I'm thin but I still could get girls. I've seen fat girls get the hot guys. I've seen fat men with beautiful chicks. And I've, and so have many others I know dated girls taller than me or them before.

    The world isn't so general as you think. In the end , it's all *taps the temple..*
    Last edited by Wisp; 17th October 2006 at 12:05 AM.

  11. #111

    Default Re: Men are better Photographer and Women better subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp View Post
    That's a most dumbass analysis I'd ever seen. I'm fair, I'm thin but I still could get girls. I've seen fat girls get the hot guys. I've seen fat men with beautiful chicks. And I've, and so have many others I know dated girls taller than me or them before.

    The world isn't so general as you think. In the end , it's all *taps the temple..*
    Wow, Dumb** is a strong word to use, my friend. Maybe if u followed the thread more closely, u'd realize your folly.

    The topic is on models. Not on whether u can get gals or not if u are thin and fair or *tap temple" if u have a Ph.D in whatever.

  12. #112
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    Default Re: Men are better Photographer and Women better subject.

    I am speaking solely on your analytical skills, not on the TS intent. Your evidence of comparison to substantiate your logic does not provide provisions for any variance in reality, but rather just general absolute statements on your perception

  13. #113
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    Default Re: Men are better Photographer and Women better subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silence Sky View Post
    Hello Wisp:

    Haha, I read your post before you deleted it. It is ok, my friend. You've got a point to make, then make it big. It is good that we all communicate our feelings here, let people understand and see things from another perspective.

    Why, got caught in between the fences, not sure which side to fall on? Haha.
    No, not caught between the fences. I feel getting involved in shark bait is just going to make me exercise my fingers for nothing.

  14. #114
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    Default Re: Men are better Photographer and Women better subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post

    As for models... I have a simple theory. It's easier for women to LOOK good than for men. For women, if you are short, people say you are a petite cutie-pie. If you are tall, they gawk at you and say "HOT GAL! U can be a model!" For guys, if you are short, sorry man... Unless you have killer looks, eg Tom Cruise.

    For women, don't underestimate the power of makeups and hair styling. We have seen how an ordinary face can be transformed from a plain Jane to an attractive one. Guys? How much make up can u put? Mascara? No way! Hair? Limited styles u can do compared to women.

    Body wise... Women can easily starve and diet themselves. When they look thin, people look at them in admiration. Guys? If u are thin, u'll be better off wearing layers of clothing to hide the sticking bones! Women if they are fair, men will gawk and go "Wow!" Like a well-preserved treaure. Men who are fair... Oh my... U look weak. Women who are tanned -- Wow, she's a sporty babe!

    Assets... Women who are lucky to be well-endowed (genetics -- nothing much for u to control unless u are rich enough to pay for silicons)... What can I say. half the battle is won. Flaunt them! (Nevermind if the face is quite average-looking.) Strobes will go off like crazy. Men? U wanna show off your assets... Sure... Proper diet, 4-5x/wk in the gym, get that 6-pack abs, bulging biceps, huge pecs then we can talk. It's a lot of hard work. Women don't have to go thru all that sweat and pain. Unless of cos they are body-builders.

    So no surprises we hardly find any male models in CS. And no surprises too that newbies pay female wannabe models to pose in awkward, unflattering positions whose final images are junk or probably will be more suitable for mere ogling.

    Next time u identify those images, bear in mind what I mention in the above statements. There might be some truths in them!
    Now I shall be very brutally honest: Only desperate men will subscribe to your description of how men will react to a lady.

  15. #115

    Default Re: Men are better Photographer and Women better subject.

    Male and female can be good models.

    Male and female can be good photograhers.

    And this topie is getting very old. It is like every guy (not all guys) will come up with this kind of topie like guys are better then girls and etc.

    boring! get a life.

    Chose other kind of topie to talk about

    Zaren is uncle or aunty still? I think zaren is aunty :P

  16. #116
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    Default Re: Men are better Photographer and Women better subject.

    Yes this topic is pointless.

    However, I would point this out in club snap: Demand and supply.

    For men, most of us got into photography probably because of good marketing creating a demand. The manufacturers repeatedly use machoism synonymns in order to sell their products, such as 'tough', 'reliable', 'speed'.

    Sad to say, few ever enter it soley because they want good photographs. Then again, that's very much my opinion.

    Ever heard of a nikon or canon DSLR labelled 'sleek', 'sexy', or anything else?

    And as goes, there is a DEMAND for female models by men who have these machines. So of course the modelling agencies would arrange for more girls to flaunt their stuff instead of guys. Do women demand model agencies for guys? They probably could get the men themselves.

    Hence this topic is a dead horse. There is nothing to support the theory that women love to flaunt and men are more inclined to be gifted in shooting than simple demand and supply. The latter is pretty much simplified of course, but it's not an analysis. Just an observation.

  17. #117

    Default Re: Men are better Photographer and Women better subject.

    Wisp, ok point taken. That's just a tongue-in-cheek analysis. Perosnal theory. I'm sure in life, people often differ in opinions about zillion things. Else we won't have such things called "debates". Yeah, it's pointless to go on over this topic. Moreover on the Net, it's too difficult to write everything on how one feels.

    But just to continue a little further, I'm still maintaining that my emphasis is on how more difficult it is for guys to be rated a "solid" model compared to women. I'm implying women have more factors or leeway to play around with. They can maximize many parts of their bodies if they need to bring out their beauty. For guys it's very telling. If looks is set aside, your body and built are the features that people will look at a lot. You look at some of the images posted here. Not all the female models are pretty. But they have good curves (may or may not be due to exercise) and/or assets. They can use makeups. Maybe dress in bikinis. (Look at how some newbie photographer guys go ga-ga and look at how the ladies pose awkwardly in some of the shoots. Are they taking good photos or just something else??) So all those factors sometimes do compensate for a lack in facial features.

    Of cos models are models... You can take pics of an ordinary lad and consider him a model. You can be fat and consider yourself a model. It's individual perception. But here, I'm talking about models that people (like some fellow CS members) would pay to take pics on a Sat afternoon, say, and post them on CS.

    I'm not demeaning ladies in anyway, neither is the topic on if plump ladies or short guys can't get attached to good people in life. Neither if it's about males are better photographers than women.

    For those who disagree, it's really ok. It's just a theory. I respect every individual and I don't judge a person's worth bcos of body size or looks. I'm just offering a very different perspective why there are hardly any images of male models here in CS here compared to women.

    Ok maybe this theory will be proven faulty and after some who read this, there will be more male models! Anyway, I come in peace and I don't wish to offend anyone. So I will try not to dwell too much into this sensitive topic anymore.

    Cheers!
    Last edited by David; 17th October 2006 at 07:05 AM.

  18. #118
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    Default Re: Men are better Photographer and Women better subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    Wisp, ok point taken. That's just a tongue-in-cheek analysis. Perosnal theory. I'm sure in life, people often differ in opinions about zillion things. Else we won't have such things called "debates". Yeah, it's pointless to go on over this topic. Moreover on the Net, it's too difficult to write everything on how one feels.

    But just to continue a little further, I'm still maintaining that my emphasis is on how more difficult it is for guys to be rated a "solid" model compared to women. I'm implying women have more factors or leeway to play around with. They can maximize many parts of their bodies if they need to bring out their beauty. For guys it's very telling. If looks is set aside, your body and built are the features that people will look at a lot. You look at some of the images posted here. Not all the female models are pretty. But they have good curves (may or may not be due to exercise) and/or assets. They can use makeups. Maybe dress in bikinis. (Look at how some newbie photographer guys go ga-ga and look at how the ladies pose awkwardly in some of the shoots. Are they taking good photos or just something else??) So all those factors sometimes do compensate for a lack in facial features.

    Of cos models are models... You can take pics of an ordinary lad and consider him a model. You can be fat and consider yourself a model. It's individual perception. But here, I'm talking about models that people (like some fellow CS members) would pay to take pics on a Sat afternoon, say, and post them on CS.

    I'm not demeaning ladies in anyway, neither is the topic on if plump ladies or short guys can't get attached to good people in life. Neither if it's about males are better photographers than women.

    For those who disagree, it's really ok. It's just a theory. I respect every individual and I don't judge a person's worth bcos of body size or looks. I'm just offering a very different perspective why there are hardly any images of male models here in CS here compared to women.

    Ok maybe this theory will be proven faulty and after some who read this, there will be more male models! Anyway, I come in peace and I don't wish to offend anyone. So I will try not to dwell too much into this sensitive topic anymore.

    Cheers!
    Alright, your stand is clear now. I guess if its in tongue and cheek I could back down abit, but still putting it in such a manner is very open to mis intepretation.

  19. #119

    Default Re: Men are better Photographer and Women better subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp View Post
    That's a most dumbass analysis I'd ever seen. I'm fair, I'm thin but I still could get girls. I've seen fat girls get the hot guys. I've seen fat men with beautiful chicks. And I've, and so have many others I know dated girls taller than me or them before.

    The world isn't so general as you think. In the end , it's all *taps the temple..*
    i disagree. the world is general. you are always exploiting those rare examples and making use of them to defunct peoples arguement. rare examples do not prove anything, it only states exceptions of a theory. this is not like a physics theory where rare abnormalies would make the theory void.

  20. #120
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    Default Re: Men are better Photographer and Women better subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin View Post
    if you want to have something for practice, let me give you one.

    your signature

    'Though a picture is silence, it always seems trying to tell me something.'

    does the picture try to tell you something or is it you who is trying to read into the picture?

    have fun!
    If you meditate long enough a picture always will tell you something. Sometimes even gives you an inspiration for a lucky 4D number.

    It is the same as if you grill a piece of meat on a stick long enough it will turn into satay.

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