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Thread: Just a casual question (about outdoor portraiture)

  1. #21

    Default Re: just a casual question (about outdoor portraiture)

    A photographer wants to shoot a model wearing lingerie, and a model willing to pose in lingerie, that simple.

    jeanie, you or your friend are just trying to see and to dig too deeply into this whole thing.
    deadpoet
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  2. #22

    Default Re: just a casual question (about outdoor portraiture)

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    A photographer wants to shoot a model wearing lingerie, and a model willing to pose in lingerie, that simple.

    jeanie, you or your friend are just trying to see and to dig too deeply into this whole thing.
    wow!i'm so honoured deadpoet posted in my thread!
    thanks!
    have been reading your kenlim's critics.very interesting.

    no lah.it's just a casual question my friend posed, that's all.

  3. #23

    Default Re: just a casual question (about outdoor portraiture)

    Quote Originally Posted by reachme2003 View Post
    nobody twists a model's arm to get her to dress and pose in a lingerie. in other words, do it only if one feels confident and comfortable about it.
    really makes me wonder, how confident can one be in lingerie?
    yes, devil's figure(direct translation from mandarin), that will make a gal confident.

    but to pose for 3-5 photographers pointing 2.8 lenses at them, how confident can a gal be?

    maybe i havent reach that stage of modelling yet.
    anyway, this is out of topic.

    topic is about dilapidated houses and lingerie.
    also, how to SET the mood when there's tons of bugs in those places?

    maybe i'm opening a can of worms lah.but like i said, i'm just curious and wants to know the answer to this simple-relevance query my friend asked.

  4. #24

    Default Re: just a casual question (about outdoor portraiture)

    Quote Originally Posted by jeanie View Post
    really makes me wonder, how confident can one be in lingerie?
    yes, devil's figure(direct translation from mandarin), that will make a gal confident.

    but to pose for 3-5 photographers pointing 2.8 lenses at them, how confident can a gal be?

    maybe i havent reach that stage of modelling yet.
    anyway, this is out of topic.

    topic is about dilapidated houses and lingerie.
    also, how to SET the mood when there's tons of bugs in those places?

    maybe i'm opening a can of worms lah.but like i said, i'm just curious and wants to know the answer to this simple-relevance query my friend asked.
    I have shot subjects who are extremely confident nomatter what they are wearing or not wearing, and I have shot too many, nomatter what they wear, they are not confident. Comes with experience.

    I personally love to shoot models in old broken down houses or places, whether they are wearing lingerie or not. The contrast between the soft (model) and the hard (th eenviroment) is beautiful.

    Mood, it's up to the photographer to work with the model to create. Just wearing lingerie in a bedroom set, real bedroom or a studio makes no difference, with 6 strobes pointing at you, is not a very mood inducing enviroment. However, again, the photographer needs to work the model to create the mood.

    Bugs, there is bug spray mah.

    Now you brought it up, wanna to do a shoot? Lingerie or not, I don't care. It's fun to experience both ends of the lens.
    Last edited by Deadpoet; 13th October 2006 at 01:58 PM.
    deadpoet
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  5. #25

    Default Re: just a casual question (about outdoor portraiture)

    am i dreaming or what?
    deadpoet wans to shoot me?

    i dont mind telling you, i have ZERO experience in posing.
    i wont consider myself pai kua , but i'm in NO WAY comparable to SOME of the models i've seen in CS.
    IMHO, in order for your pics to turn out good, your model MUST in the very least, be good looking and presentable.
    i hope i can be as frank as your comments are

    some of the models i've seen in gallery, i wont even take a second look.so, in order for a portraiture to 'look good', the photography must be good, and the model must be good too.

    i know i will be flamed for such comments, but this is really my point of view, and i've share with some close male friends of mine, and they share my sentiments.in fact, they told me they wont even bother tfcding for gals who..(I HATE TO SAY THIS...CMI).

    but then again, the way guys view gals are very much different from how gals view gals.so maybe it's me.

  6. #26

    Default Re: just a casual question (about outdoor portraiture)

    btw, how do you find a HARD setting?eg, dilapidated house? i mean...how do you actually tell the difference between a HARD setting vs a SOFT one?

    and as for models wearing lingerie, how do you classify them as soft?if they are wearing BDSM gear, are they hard or are they soft?

    when u mention soft models,the very first thing that comes into mind is a soft focus cokin.but that will make the subject and background 'soft' right?

    if i'm in lingerie, i will definitely prefer to lie on bed, with aircon in optimal temp.lights or no lights wont matter, and i'll rather stick to 1 photographer.

    which brings me to my next question...with 6 photographers pointing their guns at you, how do you 'work' with the photographers?i'm sure they have different opinions, poses, as well as characters(which is important in communicating with you right?)

    and bug spray...u mean repellent or baygon?
    if repellent, they are sticky and will it gives a shinier skin tone?
    insecticide are carcinogenic(cancer causing) rite?and given sgp's humid weather, stuffy+insecticide...wah piang eh...i respect the models siah...
    Last edited by jeanie; 13th October 2006 at 02:15 PM.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: just a casual question (about outdoor portraiture)

    Quote Originally Posted by jeanie View Post
    yes, i definitely agree lingerie should be in bedroom, or studio.

    moreover, getting the models to strip outdoors, are they against the law if caught?
    also, what protects these models' modesty?
    what if 'bad guys' appear?will the photographers/organisers protect these models with their life?of course, i'm talking about extreme cases, eg rape.

    i understand these outdoor shoots are organised by organisers
    but without demand, will there be supply?


    i'm definitely not against these shoots.it's just that it aroused my curiousity when my friend asked me about the relevance btwn lingerie and dilapidated houses.
    About demand and supply part => You just let the guys know about having almost naked girls who's there for them to shoot, there will always be the despos.

    As to your initial question - Psychologically speaking, I'd say it has alot to do with guy's sexual fantasies. A young almost naked girl in an old dilapidated house, with the guy (photographer) in pseudo "total" control of her... you get the idea. It's the closest thing to shooting pornography that they can show off and boast to their peers and raise envy that they got to shoot an almost naked place in an isolated place. I wouldn't know, but some story tellers may just leave the rest to imagination.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: just a casual question (about outdoor portraiture)

    Quote Originally Posted by jeanie View Post
    which brings me to my next question...with 6 photographers pointing their guns at you, how do you 'work' with the photographers?i'm sure they have different opinions, poses, as well as characters(which is important in communicating with you right?)
    The mass orgy shoots popularized by CS isn't exactly for creating wonderful works. By and large, it's an avenue for guys to shoot girls. If you attend a CS ""model" shoot", chances are you won't be able to get any particularly stunning piece of work.

    Model shoots in the most literal sense of the word. There's a model, you get to shoot the model. There's not much difference in shooting some of those show girls. They're models because they pose for your camera, and you get to mass-orgy shoot with many other photographers, you don't really get to control the mood etc etc. Of course, once in a while a better photographer will start posing the models because the rest are basically there just to shoot, and you get to have more time to shoot them. I'd say that's about the only difference.

    I wouldn't go so far as to call them models. Many of them are basically just girls off the street. There's a bee for every flower, so I wouldn't comment on how some of them look.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: just a casual question (about outdoor portraiture)

    may be as you can join the shoot as a female photographer and explore what is it all about?
    But probably you may shoot differently to other males do.
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  10. #30
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    Default Re: just a casual question (about outdoor portraiture)

    Ayah, its just another outdoor place that provides a measure of privacy mah. Better 6 people than 60 right? Anyway, there's also something about creating tension through the unexpected by juxtoposing two completely different elements in one picture. If you put a scantily clad lady in a bedroom or other similarly familiar surrounding, then its boring and becomes nothing more than soft porn. Like this, at least there is an element of art. Sound logical?

  11. #31

    Default Re: just a casual question (about outdoor portraiture)

    Such simple questions, with rather "interestingly responses".

    My comments: (and just in case - I am not imposing any values!)

    Before I start, the questions have nothing to do with "willing seller" and "willing buyer" kind of situation. Some people just do not have the mental capacity to read, comprehend, and go deeper. Some are just shallow. The original questions also have nothing to do with model's confidence and how well the shoot was executed.

    #1 One question was the "appropriateness of photographing lingerie in dilapidated houses".

    I can see at least two scenarios why people may want to photograph models with lingerie in dilapidated houses.

    The first has got to do with "artistic" intentions. For example, the photographer/artist may like to make a statement about contrast. Softness of the model and dress (lingerie) with hardness of buildings and decay, etc. I hope you get what I mean.

    The second is what someone had already mentioned. That of a "cheap" thrill to see half naked ladies under the pretext of "art". Fantasies at an affordable price. I think this is a high probablilty, but I will not be so daft to point my fingers at anyone. Attitude is known to the photographer himself.

    #2 The next issue is "why lingerie?"

    My simple answer is: Sex sells.


    Let us be realistic about this. Professional photographers usually do not join such shoots. The primary purpose of such shoots are not to make great images. The purpose is to have fun, take some images, improve one's photography, make friends, and along the way, indulge in some secret fantasies.

    For the models (well, I call them models, even though they may not be professionals), they get paid. They get to be photographed. Maybe they too have their fantasies. And hopefully, they can get to have some nice pictures to keep.
    Last edited by student; 13th October 2006 at 05:17 PM.

  12. #32
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    Default Re: just a casual question (about outdoor portraiture)

    i guess an abandoned dilapidated house is probably better than middle of orchard road, at least where the public is concerned?

  13. #33
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    Default Re: just a casual question (about outdoor portraiture)

    Why a lingerie shoot in a dilapidated house?

    Simple.

    Lingerie shoot because sex sells ( as pointed out by student ).

    And why in a dilapidated house? Because a lingerie shoot need to be shot away from the public and you don't have to pay for the use of a dilapidated house as such max.ing profit for the model/org.er.
    Use anywhere else ( a studio/nice house/hotel ) and you have to pay, so less profit.

    Simple.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  14. #34

    Default Re: just a casual question (about outdoor portraiture)

    my goodness.......................................... ................pls see a doctor..............
    Eat breath LIVERPOOL!!!

  15. #35

    Default Re: just a casual question (about outdoor portraiture)

    i'm really impressed by the honesty in you guys' opinions.
    no doubt about it.sex sells.but are the 'models' really that desperate for cash?
    stripping down to undies, lacybras, posing for 'ART'...
    in the end, where will your picture end up?on the toilet door for target practise?
    pardon me for being crude and i'm definitely NOT degrading the models who have been involved in such shoots.
    in fact, i admire their courage very much.and like all gals, youth=beauty=capital(qing chun jiu shi ben chien).and once you hit mid20s to 30, a gal's 'youth' is over...sad but true.

    that having said, i've seen EXCELLENT works of lingerie shots in the gallery by some members.

    i have to agree too that when you attend such shoots(irregardless of locations), you will not get to set the poses, moods and such.the only way i see possible is a ONE on ONE shoot.but then again, i reckon it will be expensive, and also 'dangerous' for the model involved.(think about it...stranger see you in lingerie?how do you tell if he's a maniac or not? )

    oh well....i guess this is a controversial thread where there's no specific answers.

  16. #36

    Default Re: just a casual question (about outdoor portraiture)

    I think you are getting it.

    Sex, lies and DVD sells these days.
    You got the same thing, babes to promo stuffs.
    Cars, wine, liquor in advertisement, road show..

    Hence most sales team I met during my work are knockers.
    Its sad, but the truth, nothing to do with location, backgroud, lingerie or wat.
    All in the sad mind, unfortunately, I belong to this sad group - sometimes..
    Put in a good way, I likes to appreciate pretty things. keke..

    Not a pervert, but hanging around with friends, its logical you do your part.
    (instance wading thru JB alleys to makan or Geylang, make sure the ladies are safe n not harassed.)

    Same thing for the model, if I do attend the shot.
    Canon EOS 50D 24-105mm f4 L IS 70-200mm f/4 IS L 50mm f/1.8

  17. #37

    Default Re: just a casual question (about outdoor portraiture)

    Quote Originally Posted by jeanie View Post
    sex sells.but are the 'models' really that desperate for cash?
    stripping down to undies, lacybras, posing for 'ART'...
    I think the reason why models pose in lingerie is only known to the models. And personally I will not question that.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeanie
    that having said, i've seen EXCELLENT works of lingerie shots in the gallery by some members.
    Perspectives are different.

    I have never seen (or maybe I have not seen enough!) any lingerie shots in CS that I can consider good, let alone excellent.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeanie
    the only way i see possible is a ONE on ONE shoot.but then again, i reckon it will be expensive, and also 'dangerous' for the model involved.(think about it...stranger see you in lingerie?how do you tell if he's a maniac or not? )
    This is where the reputation of the photographer comes in. But in doubt, get a chaperon, who might not be seeing the shooting (because some photographers do not like others to be around), but in the immediate vicinity. And I think for those types of glamour lingerie shots, there will be a MUA anyway!

    Remember, it is also "dangerous" for the photographer, because the model can also make up all kinds of story!

  18. #38
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    Default Re: just a casual question (about outdoor portraiture)

    Quote Originally Posted by jeanie View Post
    i'm really impressed by the honesty in you guys' opinions.
    no doubt about it.sex sells.but are the 'models' really that desperate for cash?
    To the models it is just another job, nothing about desperate for cash. Models have been known to do bikini shows in pubs, nightspots, etc where sometimes what they wear have less material that a lingerie. Nothing wrong with that. Of course some models will not do lingerie/bikini shoot but for those who do, it's part and parcel of the modeling world.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeanie View Post
    the only way i see possible is a ONE on ONE shoot.but then again, i reckon it will be expensive, and also 'dangerous' for the model involved.(think about it...stranger see you in lingerie?how do you tell if he's a maniac or not? )
    Expensive? So far, I've yet to pay to shoot a 1 to 1 with a model/newbie model, and I don't charge high when I ask the model to pay me.
    Dangerous? I think it is more dangerous for the photographer. In SG the law is always on the side of the victim. It all depends on how the photographer conducts himself, how professional he is in his work as well as his reputation.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  19. #39
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    Default Re: just a casual question (about outdoor portraiture)

    Quote Originally Posted by jeanie View Post
    i'm really impressed by the honesty in you guys' opinions.
    no doubt about it.sex sells.but are the 'models' really that desperate for cash?
    stripping down to undies, lacybras, posing for 'ART'...
    It all depends on the model doesn't it? Some models I know don't think much about it, it's just a job. However, I also know of models who are willing to pose nude to earn a measly % of what the organiser charges 1 person in a mass shoot, because they're really short of cash.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeanie View Post
    i have to agree too that when you attend such shoots(irregardless of locations), you will not get to set the poses, moods and such.the only way i see possible is a ONE on ONE shoot.but then again, i reckon it will be expensive, and also 'dangerous' for the model involved.(think about it...stranger see you in lingerie?how do you tell if he's a maniac or not? )
    A major generalization here - It's hard to pin down your definition of maniac: Those who think bad thoughts, or those who act them out.
    Those people who are out for art/great photos will know that they can't get any good photos out from mass shoots, and generally won't be attending those mass orgy shoots.

  20. #40
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    Default Re: just a casual question (about outdoor portraiture)

    Quote Originally Posted by jeanie View Post
    but without demand, will there be supply?
    it's a chicken and egg thing. There may also be cases whereby "since there's the supply, why not demand for it/ go for it?" photographers who join in. It may even be voyeuristic for some and it can't stop one from wondering, lingerie in such settings? i think we'll only see them on some mags trying to play out to readers as end of the day, it's all about money to these mags, they have to sell and "suppliers" are out to earn money, nothing else, models same, easy money for them so long they'll be willing to wear little and who cares where these guys shoot me at.

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