Please help with my flash problem

OlyFlyer · 7th October 2006

Hi,

I started a thread because I need some help. It is not a specific Oly problem so I placed it here:

http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthrea...59#post2518059

But since I am an E-500 owner, I would like to ask here also. Please, read and help if you can.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Mikefellh · 7th October 2006

Here (via a Google search):
http://www.testreports.co.uk/photogr...0AutoZoom.html
http://www.oldtimercameras.com/manua...a-manuals.html

Personally though since this is (presumably) a standard auto flash you'd be better off on looking on the basics of flash photography, either online or a book from the library. Instruction manuals are like the manuals you get with a new car...it teaches you where the controls are but it doesn't teach you how to drive.

The only thing with the E-500 is you CAN'T go above 1/180th of a second shutter speed (due to the nature of the focal plane shutter).

You will eventually want to get an FL-36 or FL-50, not only because you can go faster than 1/180 (in FP flash mode), you also have a much better (less annoying) focus assist beam than what you have currently on the camera.

OlyFlyer · 7th October 2006

Thanks. That and similar sites I have also found. The problem is I am not prepared to pay another $14.40 plus shiping. I don't think there is any flash manual worth that much anyway. For that price I can find another flash with manual also.

As for the basics of flash photography, I have more basics than anyone needs after 30 years of SLR photography. Being an engineer, I like to have instruction manuals for my cars, microwave ovens and everything else technical. I actually belong to the few who also reads those. After all these years I have enough books (all read) about photography, so it is not the teaching part of the manual I am after. It is true, the manual of my car does not teach me how to drive nor do I expect it to try to, but it teaches me other stuff I want to know.

The E-500 can definitely go beyond 1/180s if you are not using the built in flash or other similar to FL36/50 (except in super FP mode). If the camera is set to M you can set any speed you like and the camera does not care if you use flash or not. How well it turns out depends on your flash. My old Olympus T32 can handle 1/250s. This have been tested on my camera taking several hundred test shots with different distances and zooms. but the manual says 1/60s sync speed for that flash. My Metz 30BCT4 can only sync up to 1/125s (manual says 1/60 only). I think old flashes are much better than what their manual says because when they have been created the precision of mechanical shutters were not as good as the modern electronically controlled ones, so manufacturers had to set a lower sync limit to avoid trouble with complaining customers.

You are right, one day I may want an FL-something. Not the FL-36 because that is too weak and slow. The FL-50 is too old and too expensive. I don't think it will outperform any of my flashes anyway, except in FP-mode. The only thing I envy on that one is the AF light. I don't like the modern flashes TTL technology which uses pre-flash. That has caused me a few blinking eyes and funny faces. I did not understand from the beginning why I suddenly catch those faces until I learned about this stupid pre-flash. Ever since then, I try to avoid the built in flash, especially for people. I found the AF-assist useless and that is disabled ever since my first few test shots after receiving my camera. So, yes, FL-something for me is FL-XX, the successor of FL-50.

Thanks anyway, I appreciate your effort.

Mikefellh · 7th October 2006

You definately know more than enough (repliers always assume little or no knowledge for this type of question)...you sound like the type of person who never reads the manual.

So since you are experienced, why do you need a manual...what do you want to know about the flash that experience hasn't taught you?

OlyFlyer · 7th October 2006

Originally Posted by Mikefellh

You definately know more than enough (repliers always assume little or no knowledge for this type of question)...you sound like the type of person who never reads the manual.

I don't understand what you mean by that. Did I say somewhere I never read the manual? Quite the opposite, I always try to remind people to read the manual before posting a question and I often post quotes from the E-500 manual if I reply to a question which has an answer in the Advanced Manual. Manuals are not always very clear on everything (or I am stupid) and happens that I miss things, but I always read them. It also happens that some people misunderstands my questions and answers to the ones I never asked.

Originally Posted by Mikefellh

So since you are experienced, why do you need a manual...what do you want to know about the flash that experience hasn't taught you?

I don't know what I find there since I have not seen the flash nor have I read the manual. A few technical details like GN, coverage angle, flash duration, recycling time and may be a few other things is a good start. I could guess GN=30 from the model name and could measure the flash duration and some other things, still I think it is good to have in writing.

Mikefellh · 8th October 2006

First off the trigger voltage of that flash is 246v (very close to the voltage threshold of the E-1, much too high for consumer E's)...in any case you should use something like a Wein SafeSync to protect your camera. Here's some specs from an eBay auction for the flash (automatically translated from Italian):

Number guides with film 100 ASA: 30 (in meters) 100 (in feet)
BCPS: 1770
With NiCad batteries:
number of the flash 45-(700 *)
Time of recharges: 0,3-5 second
With Alkaline batteries:
number of the flash: 90-(1800 *)
Time of recharges: 0,3-10 second
With local p0wer source Sunpak 510 V
Powerpack (NOT SUPPLIED):
number of the flash: 500-(10.000 *)
Time of recharges: 0,3-1 second
With net local power source (NOT FO4RNITO):
Time of recharges: 0,3-5 second
Capacity of the computer: 0,5-7,5 meters
Duration of the lightning bolt: 1/1.000-1/50.000 of second
Angle of reading of the sensor: 28 degrees
Angle of lighting system: 45 degrees horizontal x 60 degrees vertical
Temperature of color: 5500 degrees Kelvin
Dimensions: 45x110x115 milimeter.
Weight: 445 gr.

OlyFlyer · 8th October 2006

Thank you Mike. That sounds better than I expected. I mean the recharge time and the flash duration. The flash duration is actually better than the T32 with it's 1/40.000 sec as the shortest. Reacharge time is just a tiny 0.1 sec longer for the Sunpak but still very fast. As for the trigger voltage, the information I received from an Oly technician is that my E-500 is safe up to 300V (but not recomanded). That is not printed in the manual for reasons that they do not want us to use any non-Oly flashes, or they at least should be low voltage type. All Oly flashes since about 1980 have less than or around 12V, which was very unique at that time. Just another Oly invention. I have no problem to trigger it with external trigger, that was my original plan anyway. I also do that with my Metz since that is also a high voltage type. The only one I trigger directly from the camera is my T32.

Color temperature and coverage angle is better for my T32 but the Sunpak is still OK for my use, other than that it seems to be a very good flash, easy to position in any angle and usable without tripod also, due to it's design.

Thank you once again for your continued hunting and for going through trouble of auto-translation. I have no problems with reading many languages, of which Italian is one, but I guess there may be others who also want to read what you and I are discussing here.

OlyFlyer · 11th October 2006

If anybody is interested...

I have received the flash. It is definitely a good one well worth it's price many times over. If the calculator panel is right than GN = 32 not 30. I measured the trigger voltage and that is "only" 190V. Still, it is just like with my Metz, never going to connect directly to any modern camera, I am going to build another trigger dedicated to this flash. Since I still have no manual, I'll have to measure flash light duration in all settings. Anyway, I tested it and it works great. I love the way the flash head is designed, twistable in almost every possible way and the flash is easy to place without tripod on any flat surface which makes it easy to use as a slave flash.

Now I have four flashes to play with...

microcosm · 12th October 2006

Thanks guys, I have been reading this and realised that there are so much more possibilities with other makes of strobes that are much cheaper than the Olympus ones. I have the FL-36 and 50, but there are times when I need multiple strobes to light my shoot(I am one of those silly ones who refuses to use studio strobes because I like traveling light).

Now I can experiment.

By the way, I am a little confused about the strobe triggers you mentioned. Can I see a picture and how you go about constructing them? I love to do a little DIY in my own time. But I know strobes can be dangerous because of the voltage.

microcosm · 12th October 2006

Originally Posted by Mikefellh

Duration of the lightning bolt: 1/1.000-1/50.000 of second

Translations can kill me sometimes...

OlyFlyer · 20th October 2006

Originally Posted by microcosm

Translations can kill me sometimes...

Yes, well, we can't expect too much from computers for many years to come...

BTW Sorry for not looking after my thread. Here are some pics of my triggers.

This one can only be used on low voltage trigger flashes like my T32. It has no delays or anything fancy, but it is very small, build into a small mike case.

Here on top of my ancient Olympus T32

This one has sound or light trigger possibilities and adjustable delay. When delay is set to mid delay range it triggers on the E-500 main flash, ignoring the pre flash. It can be used on both low and high trigger voltage flashes.

I am going to make yet another one, this time based on a Microchip PIC microcontroller. That one I will be dedicated mainly to my "new" ancient flash. If I like it I'll make three more.

Some more reading regarding previous flash discussions if you are interested:

http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthrea...ht=slave+flash

http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthrea...ighlight=flash

7th October 2006	#1
OlyFlyer Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Europe, Sweden, outside Lund Posts: 2,038	Please help with my flash problem Hi, I started a thread because I need some help. It is not a specific Oly problem so I placed it here: http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthrea...59#post2518059 But since I am an E-500 owner, I would like to ask here also. Please, read and help if you can. Thanks in advance for your help.

7th October 2006	#2
Mikefellh Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,460	Re: Please help with my flash problem Here (via a Google search): http://www.testreports.co.uk/photogr...0AutoZoom.html http://www.oldtimercameras.com/manua...a-manuals.html Personally though since this is (presumably) a standard auto flash you'd be better off on looking on the basics of flash photography, either online or a book from the library. Instruction manuals are like the manuals you get with a new car...it teaches you where the controls are but it doesn't teach you how to drive. The only thing with the E-500 is you CAN'T go above 1/180th of a second shutter speed (due to the nature of the focal plane shutter). You will eventually want to get an FL-36 or FL-50, not only because you can go faster than 1/180 (in FP flash mode), you also have a much better (less annoying) focus assist beam than what you have currently on the camera.

7th October 2006	#3
OlyFlyer Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Europe, Sweden, outside Lund Posts: 2,038	Re: Please help with my flash problem Thanks. That and similar sites I have also found. The problem is I am not prepared to pay another $14.40 plus shiping. I don't think there is any flash manual worth that much anyway. For that price I can find another flash with manual also. As for the basics of flash photography, I have more basics than anyone needs after 30 years of SLR photography. Being an engineer, I like to have instruction manuals for my cars, microwave ovens and everything else technical. I actually belong to the few who also reads those. After all these years I have enough books (all read) about photography, so it is not the teaching part of the manual I am after. It is true, the manual of my car does not teach me how to drive nor do I expect it to try to, but it teaches me other stuff I want to know. The E-500 can definitely go beyond 1/180s if you are not using the built in flash or other similar to FL36/50 (except in super FP mode). If the camera is set to M you can set any speed you like and the camera does not care if you use flash or not. How well it turns out depends on your flash. My old Olympus T32 can handle 1/250s. This have been tested on my camera taking several hundred test shots with different distances and zooms. but the manual says 1/60s sync speed for that flash. My Metz 30BCT4 can only sync up to 1/125s (manual says 1/60 only). I think old flashes are much better than what their manual says because when they have been created the precision of mechanical shutters were not as good as the modern electronically controlled ones, so manufacturers had to set a lower sync limit to avoid trouble with complaining customers. You are right, one day I may want an FL-something. Not the FL-36 because that is too weak and slow. The FL-50 is too old and too expensive. I don't think it will outperform any of my flashes anyway, except in FP-mode. The only thing I envy on that one is the AF light. I don't like the modern flashes TTL technology which uses pre-flash. That has caused me a few blinking eyes and funny faces. I did not understand from the beginning why I suddenly catch those faces until I learned about this stupid pre-flash. Ever since then, I try to avoid the built in flash, especially for people. I found the AF-assist useless and that is disabled ever since my first few test shots after receiving my camera. So, yes, FL-something for me is FL-XX, the successor of FL-50. Thanks anyway, I appreciate your effort.

7th October 2006	#4
Mikefellh Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,460	Re: Please help with my flash problem You definately know more than enough (repliers always assume little or no knowledge for this type of question)...you sound like the type of person who never reads the manual. So since you are experienced, why do you need a manual...what do you want to know about the flash that experience hasn't taught you?

8th October 2006	#6
Mikefellh Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,460	Re: Please help with my flash problem First off the trigger voltage of that flash is 246v (very close to the voltage threshold of the E-1, much too high for consumer E's)...in any case you should use something like a Wein SafeSync to protect your camera. Here's some specs from an eBay auction for the flash (automatically translated from Italian): Number guides with film 100 ASA: 30 (in meters) 100 (in feet) BCPS: 1770 With NiCad batteries: number of the flash 45-(700 ) Time of recharges: 0,3-5 second With Alkaline batteries: number of the flash: 90-(1800 ) Time of recharges: 0,3-10 second With local p0wer source Sunpak 510 V Powerpack (NOT SUPPLIED): number of the flash: 500-(10.000 *) Time of recharges: 0,3-1 second With net local power source (NOT FO4RNITO): Time of recharges: 0,3-5 second Capacity of the computer: 0,5-7,5 meters Duration of the lightning bolt: 1/1.000-1/50.000 of second Angle of reading of the sensor: 28 degrees Angle of lighting system: 45 degrees horizontal x 60 degrees vertical Temperature of color: 5500 degrees Kelvin Dimensions: 45x110x115 milimeter. Weight: 445 gr.

11th October 2006	#8
OlyFlyer Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Europe, Sweden, outside Lund Posts: 2,038	Re: Please help with my flash problem If anybody is interested... I have received the flash. It is definitely a good one well worth it's price many times over. If the calculator panel is right than GN = 32 not 30. I measured the trigger voltage and that is "only" 190V. Still, it is just like with my Metz, never going to connect directly to any modern camera, I am going to build another trigger dedicated to this flash. Since I still have no manual, I'll have to measure flash light duration in all settings. Anyway, I tested it and it works great. I love the way the flash head is designed, twistable in almost every possible way and the flash is easy to place without tripod on any flat surface which makes it easy to use as a slave flash. Now I have four flashes to play with...

12th October 2006	#9
microcosm Moderator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 8,016	Re: Please help with my flash problem Thanks guys, I have been reading this and realised that there are so much more possibilities with other makes of strobes that are much cheaper than the Olympus ones. I have the FL-36 and 50, but there are times when I need multiple strobes to light my shoot(I am one of those silly ones who refuses to use studio strobes because I like traveling light). Now I can experiment. By the way, I am a little confused about the strobe triggers you mentioned. Can I see a picture and how you go about constructing them? I love to do a little DIY in my own time. But I know strobes can be dangerous because of the voltage.