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Thread: Cycling on the pavement, who has the right of way?

  1. #101
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    Default Re: Cycling on the pavement, who has the right of way?

    Quote Originally Posted by StreetShooter View Post
    Indeed.

    Well, I'm not. What I am arguing for is the right for cyclists to use the pavement.
    get a petition done and send it to MOT? though i doubt that'll be of much use, that's the only way things might change. Can ask for road signs to include bicycle signages and get pathways to be painted with bicycle signs as well, that'll effectively create the awareness that bicycle users are part of 'road' or 'path' users. but i'm guessing it'll be rejected base on reasons such as number of bicycle users being too low to justify such projects.

  2. #102
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    Default Re: Cycling on the pavement, who has the right of way?

    Quote Originally Posted by StreetShooter View Post
    Absolutely. You've hit the nail on the head. Cyclists have been marginalized. The true mark of a society's greatness is how it treats its underclass.
    S$6000 to S$16000 for a bicycle does not say underclass

  3. #103

    Default Re: Cycling on the pavement, who has the right of way?

    Quote Originally Posted by StreetShooter View Post
    Indeed.

    Well, I'm not. What I am arguing for is the right for cyclists to use the pavement.
    You are fully entitled to argue for the right of cyclists to use the pavement. And I think you should. I do not cycle, and as a driver, I wish there is a way to keep cyclists off roads. Hopefully with sound lobbying, that would be a possibility to keep cyclists off roads, perhaps with a pavement/track for cyclists.

    But that would be the future, won't it?

    Until then, what is the regulation? Even if you do not agree with it? You yourself know the legislation NOW.

    We are talking NOW, are we not?

    Until then, is it the right of cyclists to tell pedestrians to "siam!"? Or is it more like cyclists are "guests" on pavement?

  4. #104

    Default Re: Cycling on the pavement, who has the right of way?

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    the law is not enforced, so it is a non issue
    The law is being enforced, as testified to by one of the thread contributors. It is NOT a non-issue, because I should be free to cycle on the pavement (which I don't, for the record, except for purposes of taking photographs to make a point) without feeling as though I'm a criminal.

    If I should cause an accident on the pavement, then I should be judged according to the circumstances of the accident, and not found guilty by default simply because I was not supposed to be on the pavement (again, for the record, there's never been even a near-accident).

    Otherwise, any time a car knocks down a pedestrian on the road, it would automatically be the pedestrian's fault because the road was meant for the cars, and pedestrians belong on the pavement.

  5. #105
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    Default Re: Cycling on the pavement, who has the right of way?

    Quote Originally Posted by StreetShooter View Post
    Otherwise, any time a car knocks down a pedestrian on the road, it would automatically be the pedestrian's fault because the road was meant for the cars, and pedestrians belong on the pavement.
    nope, it is nearly always the drivers fault, even if the pedestrian was in the wrong

    cars are banned from the pavement you know

  6. #106

    Default Re: Cycling on the pavement, who has the right of way?

    There are laws against speeding and reckless driving, for the purpose of preventing accidents. The way to prevent accidents on pavements is to introduce and enforce those same laws applied to cyclists riding on the pavement, not an outright ban, which puts cyclists between a rock and a hard place: break the law or risk their lives.

    Yes there are ya-ya cyclists with expensive bikes, but for many, it is a cheap and healthy form of transportation (cheap if you're not fined, and healthy if you don't get killed, that is)

    I have hopes that Irene Ng (is she still in Parliament?) may change things yet. Time will tell.

  7. #107
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    Default Re: Cycling on the pavement, who has the right of way?

    and wider pavements as well

  8. #108
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    Default Re: Cycling on the pavement, who has the right of way?

    Quote Originally Posted by StreetShooter View Post
    The way to prevent accidents on pavements is to introduce and enforce those same laws applied to cyclists riding on the pavement, not an outright ban, which puts cyclists between a rock and a hard place: break the law or risk their lives.

    Yes there are ya-ya cyclists with expensive bikes, but for many, it is a cheap and healthy form of transportation (cheap if you're not fined, and healthy if you don't get killed, that is)

    I have hopes that Irene Ng (is she still in Parliament?) may change things yet. Time will tell.
    having speedmeters on bicycles? what's a good speed on pedestrian pathways? this is not solving the issue at the right spot.

    the problem is that bicycle users are not recognised as equal to pedestrians, because fundamentally the pathways are not designed with bicycle users in mind.

  9. #109
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    Default Re: Cycling on the pavement, who has the right of way?

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    and wider pavements as well
    no need. the pathways are way narrower in Japan, and pedestrains and bicycle users don't have any problem with each other. the society recognise cycling as a valid mode of transport, so does the transportation authority. pathways here are clearly indicated that they are meant for pedestrains and bicycle users alike, the rest is up to respect and courtesy ... and alot of common sense.

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    Default Re: Cycling on the pavement, who has the right of way?

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin View Post
    no need. the pathways are way narrower in Japan, and pedestrains and bicycle users don't have any problem with each other. the society recognise cycling as a valid mode of transport, so does the transportation authority. pathways here are clearly indicated that they are meant for pedestrains and bicycle users alike, the rest is up to respect and courtesy ... and alot of common sense.
    if that is the case then i'd think we in spore will have a long way to go

    respect and courtesy is not our strong points

  11. #111
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    Default Re: Cycling on the pavement, who has the right of way?

    One of the reasons is because cars are licensed, whereas bicycles are not. Being licensed brings greater accoutability and trackability.

    Quote Originally Posted by StreetShooter View Post
    if cars are not banned because of bad drivers, then why should cyclists be banned because of bad cyclists?

  12. #112
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    Default Re: Cycling on the pavement, who has the right of way?

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    if that is the case then i'd think we in spore will have a long way to go

    respect and courtesy is not our strong points
    well, be glad that Singapore don't have MRT packed like Japanese trains

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    Default Re: Cycling on the pavement, who has the right of way?

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin View Post
    well, be glad that Singapore don't have MRT packed like Japanese trains
    ahh, that is a different case, we are not preverted, well most of us anyway

  14. #114
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    Default Re: Cycling on the pavement, who has the right of way?

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    ahh, that is a different case, we are not preverted, well most of us anyway
    hey, is that meant to be racists? thuogh i thnik tehre are smoe lmiited turth in taht ... that's why in the morning i don't take trains after 6.30am

  15. #115
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    Default Re: Cycling on the pavement, who has the right of way?

    spore is multi racial

    and we don't need to have female only cars on trains/mrt

  16. #116
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    Default Re: Cycling on the pavement, who has the right of way?

    This thread still going on?

  17. #117
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    Default Re: Cycling on the pavement, who has the right of way?

    Quote Originally Posted by gary wong View Post
    i guess there are cyclists and there are anti-cyclists. if singapore is ruled by the anti-cyclists, we would have one set of rules. Aleoca would problably closed down. Mr Goh and Han would problably sell something else.

    I just find it weird to see so many fervert anti-cyclists here. Really no middle ground is it? funny thing i have been knocked down by bikes before. scratches. maybe blue black. that's it. the impact of the bike tyre is there but not much, the momentum is not really that high. mass X velocity. Assuming it is a alloy bike weight of the rider combined with bike maybe 14 kg, person 65kg.
    79 X 3 m/s = 237 kgm/s

    compared to get hit by a 3 tonner ( really unlucky )

    3000 X 13.89 m/s ( avg 50km/hr ) = 41670 kgm/s

    which is more fatal? Seriously i have been knocked down before and i actually helped the guy who fell off the bike. cyclist would understand, it is the cyclist that get hurt more. really. the scenario is usually: you suddenly lose control, your crouch hit the top tube first and you fall palm first on the floor, the bike then crashes behind you. the impact is the bike hitting yourself. tour de france cyclists die because of this. roadies would understand.

    lets look at the tyre size, the biggest impact area is 2.5 inch. I am assuming it is a downhiller, comparing to a car or bus, the area of impact really is minimum. well if singapore is ruled by cyclists, we will have another set of rules.
    you mean a pregnent woman (in the 8th month) will only get scratches when beng by your bike at 237kgm/s? how sure she wont fall down? so if she falls and suffer mis-carriage it is her own fault, who ask her to fall and why the heck are they happen walking on the pavement that you are riding your bike????

    you mean to say a person (young people / old people, man and woman alike) carrying a baby, got beng by you will never let go of the baby due to shock? and if they do let go of the baby, falling from a average height of 1.2m, will only get scratches? and it is their fault because they happen to be walking on the pavement that you are riding your bike, it is also their fault that they let go the baby???

    some kind of logic you have there!!!
    Last edited by denniskee; 8th October 2006 at 12:31 AM.
    photography makes one sees things from all angles.

  18. #118
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    Default Re: Cycling on the pavement, who has the right of way?

    Quote Originally Posted by denniskee View Post
    you mean a pregnent woman (in the 8th month) will only get scratches when beng by your bike at 237kgm/s? how sure she wont fall down? so if she falls and suffer mis-carriage it is her own fault, who ask her to fall and why the heck are they happen walking on the pavement that you are riding your bike????

    you mean to say a person (young people / old people, man and woman alike) carrying a baby, got beng by you will never let go of the baby due to shock? and if they do let go of the baby, falling from a average height of 1.2m, will only get scratches? and it is their fault because they happen to be walking on the pavement that you are riding your bike, it is also their fault that they let go the baby???

    some kind of logic you have there!!!
    it is because, he rather bang other ppl than to get bang by a car

  19. #119
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    Default Re: Cycling on the pavement, who has the right of way?

    oic, he can go bang bang in bumper car in carnival lar, that way safer for everyone.
    Last edited by denniskee; 8th October 2006 at 12:45 AM.
    photography makes one sees things from all angles.

  20. #120

    Default Re: Cycling on the pavement, who has the right of way?

    I don't get it. Why is it so hard for both cyclists and drivers in Singapore to be considerate to each other and give way?

    Is Sg society and it's mindset so geared to chasing the almighty dollar that simple common courtesy/grace cannot be practised?

    What is the bloody rush/hurry?

    Will being delayed a few seconds kill you so much that you should throw all regard for human life out the window (esp from some that should know better)?
    I just read in the Togoparts forum about the road death of a cyclist at the hands of a bus driver (who gave him the finger shortly before running him down).

    Geez people, get a grip! Especially the car drivers and bus drivers. Share and share alike. You don't own the bloody roads. And cyclists you don't own the bloody pavements! These roads and pavement will damn well be bloody if you don't show more consideration to each other and to the pedestrians.
    Good GRIEF!!! Some of what has been written here is despicable.

    I drive too BTW.
    Last edited by Tetrode; 8th October 2006 at 01:38 AM.

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