View Poll Results: Body upgrade 1st or Prime Lens 1st

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  • Go for the 1Dmk2

    8 15.69%
  • Go for the Prime Lens

    35 68.63%
  • Quit Birding and stay on general photography

    8 15.69%
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Thread: Body 1st or Lens 1st

  1. #21

    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    Quote Originally Posted by DeSwitch View Post
    I belief you tape the pins on the TC to be able to use AF cos 10D would not be able to AF at f8. I tape the pins too with a canon 1.4X mk2 TC to get 560mm f8 but its too slow and needs excellent lighting to get the AF to works.
    nope... I use Sigma lens and sigma 1.4x. No need to tape pins leh. Even when I tried canon 2x TC on 28-135 IS. AF still works but hunt like siao.
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  2. #22

    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    Quote Originally Posted by DeSwitch View Post
    The accessories you mentioned is in my gears inventory already. Good CF tripod with Gimbal head. even the camo is already in. what is the benifite of getting say a 500mm f4 and use it on my 350D. The 350D will make the investment of the 500mm looks stupid. Now the mid level XXD, why should i go halfway and later i still need to upgrade to the 1 series. I was thinking of bitting the bullet now, get the 1 series now and use it with my existing lens. den slowly get the 500mmf4 while keeping my 100-400 for flight shots.

    At least the 1 series focusing is sharper than the 350D not forgeting the bigger viewfinder.
    what makes you think 350D on a 500mm looks stupid?

    Agree with not going halfway to get the 1 body tho.
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  3. #23

    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    BTW... I also same as you... but ended up choosing option 3 instead.... at least until funds are OK for me to upgrade my setup.
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  4. #24
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    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    Quote Originally Posted by Garion View Post
    Brother Calvin,

    It is a tough choice. (everything in life is about tough choices lol). You should know my stand on this. (see my sig lol) I was once exactly in your shoes, and asking the exact same question. I was advised some time ago by one experienced nature photographer to get the lens first. Body later. I did the exact opposite and now have really mixed feelings about my choice.

    First off, lets consider the benefits of either one. A pro body is truly a wonderful thing coz it has the AF speed, buffer and fps which allows you to capture the shots more easily. In wildlife and nature photography, speed is the key as crucial moments can happen very quickly. The main factor is AF speed (i.e. the time it takes for cam to lock onto the subject). Yes lens does play a part too, but usually the body is the main culprit here. With non pro bodies, focusing tends to be slower and takes longer to lock on (i.e. it hunts). It can be extremely frustrating sometimes, the bird could be merrily displaying in front of you but your focus is hunting all over the shop! By the time it locks the bugger has already disappeared.

    Now the lens. A long telephoto lens is truly the most important tool in any serious wildlife photographers's bag. Why? It offers superb image quality and most importantly, reach. Which negates the need to stack teleconverters and also maintain a safe working distance from the subject. It takes some time to master yes, but with the proper hands it can produce excellent results with just any body, no matter 1 series or your 350D.

    Here's my suggestion. You might possibly consider this path which is more cost effective than just upgrading both lens + body to your desired combo which will be a killer to your bank account. Sell off your 350D, perhaps a couple of other gears you feel you do not use that much, maybe even your 100-400L, and put the money on a 2nd hand 20D or 30D. The AF is better than the one on 350D, more robust body, and also 5 fps, with this body it is a very decent combo for bird photography. You also keep the 1.6x crop factor for added reach. Then, go for the 300mm f2.8 or 500mm f4. The pro body can wait till later, as prices are falling all the time, but at least for the time being you will have a decent working combo in your hands.

    This is almost a given. Most bird photographers I know who end up in this money and time sucking hobby end up with this combo. This poison has no known cure.
    Hi Garion, like every birder, the final distination is a 1 series with either 500mm or 600mm. so i dont see the point of getting the XXD series. Might as well go straight into 1 series. My 350D is really crap for birding. The focusing sensor is not sharp enough. My 500mm will come in sooner or later but not now. You know my story...I have to convince my CFO to appreciate birding first. The african presentation post had already make my Visa easier to obtain. Now i need to show some result before i can put the monster lens at home.

    I did consider the 20D or the 30D but becos of 2 reasons that make me go for the 1Dmk2 instead. The 8.5fps for action (I misses a lot of good shot due to slow speed like birds flying in/out of their nest..opps) and the min f8 AF so that i can get slower and less expensive lense if my 500mm f4 dont materialise. I have a friend offering his under utilised 1dmk2 body in almost mint condition. BTW, how to check shutter count on the 1dmk2? According to him he only shoot 5 events with it so that about 5k shutter max. I was with hie for 2 event and we shot only ard 300 photos each. He is going for FF cos he is not a birder.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    Quote Originally Posted by DeSwitch View Post
    The accessories you mentioned is in my gears inventory already. Good CF tripod with Gimbal head. even the camo is already in. what is the benifite of getting say a 500mm f4 and use it on my 350D. The 350D will make the investment of the 500mm looks stupid. Now the mid level XXD, why should i go halfway and later i still need to upgrade to the 1 series. I was thinking of bitting the bullet now, get the 1 series now and use it with my existing lens. den slowly get the 500mmf4 while keeping my 100-400 for flight shots.

    At least the 1 series focusing is sharper than the 350D not forgeting the bigger viewfinder.
    Good that you already got some if not most of the accessories.

    What i think most of us would mention / stress is that - at the end of the day - a body is just a body - its still a tool. Its how you use it and whether you have the technique, and like what CYRN mentioned - shutter discipline. No use having 8.5fps cocking up shuttercount when not even 1 shot is sharp and your AF hunts like mad which cannot keep up with the shutter also. Coming from the xxxD series, i know the feeling of looking through a 5D / 1 series VF. Its a breath of fresh air.

    I've been living with a 300D for 2 years shooting drifts recently and pushing the limits of my camera and myself. (I even killed the shutter trigger in the process) ... but at the end of the day, i see the photos i really want and i'm happy. Its how you want to live with your current body and not be "peer pressured" into buying something you'll end up coughing a whole lot of blood for.

    500 is no joke seriously. I've had kopi with "uncle" garion before... was telling him the pros and cons ... especially transporting the bugger - Wakeboard last weekend already i witnessed how an nice european chap with a nikon 500 F4 lug his gear about. .. mind you he travelled by bus and mrt, the bag was easily 3/4 his size...

  6. #26

    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    Quote Originally Posted by DeSwitch View Post
    I have a friend offering his under utilised 1dmk2 body in almost mint condition. BTW, how to check shutter count on the 1dmk2? According to him he only shoot 5 events with it so that about 5k shutter max. I was with hie for 2 event and we shot only ard 300 photos each. He is going for FF cos he is not a birder.
    This changes the whole consideration.
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  7. #27
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    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    Quote Originally Posted by DeSwitch View Post
    I did consider the 20D or the 30D but becos of 2 reasons that make me go for the 1Dmk2 instead. The 8.5fps for action (I misses a lot of good shot due to slow speed like birds flying in/out of their nest..opps) and the min f8 AF so that i can get slower and less expensive lense if my 500mm f4 dont materialise. I have a friend offering his under utilised 1dmk2 body in almost mint condition. BTW, how to check shutter count on the 1dmk2? According to him he only shoot 5 events with it so that about 5k shutter max. I was with hie for 2 event and we shot only ard 300 photos each. He is going for FF cos he is not a birder.
    Ah .. seems like you're also heading the same direction as me ... jumped from the xxxD series ... but you're going to miss the 1.6x crop and the 20D / 30D does not disappoint in the AF... check with garion ...

    If its a mint set with a nice price, then get it. Lug a laptop along with the cancount software to check the shuttercount of the camera before confirming the purchase.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    OK for the shutter disipline.. I could manage that with almost still subjects like birds perching on branches etc. But when it comes to flights and more difficult shots like landing and taking off, its so fast paced that its either you are dammm lucky to get the perfect 1 shot 1 kill photo or you will never have the chance again. I tried shooting a 3fps on my 350d, Bird leaving the nest but only got 1 shot out of 3 with the bird visible. and the damm wing is not in a good pose. I waited for the next hour and tried and tried until i gave up. each time either the bird is halfway out or total miss. Maybe i still dont have the skill to shoot this special shots but i belief the fast continuous shoot will give me more chance of landing a good shot.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    Quote Originally Posted by dEthANGeL View Post
    Ah .. seems like you're also heading the same direction as me ... jumped from the xxxD series ... but you're going to miss the 1.6x crop and the 20D / 30D does not disappoint in the AF... check with garion ...

    If its a mint set with a nice price, then get it. Lug a laptop along with the cancount software to check the shuttercount of the camera before confirming the purchase.
    hehe...you finally admit you move from 1.6x crop

  10. #30

    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    Quote Originally Posted by DeSwitch View Post
    OK for the shutter disipline.. I could manage that with almost still subjects like birds perching on branches etc. But when it comes to flights and more difficult shots like landing and taking off, its so fast paced that its either you are dammm lucky to get the perfect 1 shot 1 kill photo or you will never have the chance again. I tried shooting a 3fps on my 350d, Bird leaving the nest but only got 1 shot out of 3 with the bird visible. and the damm wing is not in a good pose. I waited for the next hour and tried and tried until i gave up. each time either the bird is halfway out or total miss. Maybe i still dont have the skill to shoot this special shots but i belief the fast continuous shoot will give me more chance of landing a good shot.
    i think you already know what you want. go get it

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    Quote Originally Posted by madmacs View Post
    hehe...you finally admit you move from 1.6x crop
    Shhh .. don't OT people's thread.

    DeSwitch:

    Know what you mean, garion was also telling me this "critical" moment kind of thing which calls for this feature. (but then again i'm wondering why he's beginning to love the 20D ) Birding is simply not easy - really need alot of patience and wasted trips.


    Think you should know what to get already since you've been offered. A good offer is hard to come by ... and I got it ... Good luck with yours...

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    i think you have already made up your mind and just want us to confirm your decision.

    "Get the body first, you can still use it to shoot other stuff while saving for the 500mm"
    i think the above is what you are looking for?

  13. #33

    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    i think you have already made up your mind and just want us to confirm your decision.

    "Get the body first, you can still use it to shoot other stuff while saving for the 500mm"
    i think the above is what you are looking for?
    well...in his case it looks like it doesnt make a difference anymore. so he can buy the body first

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    Quote Originally Posted by madmacs View Post
    well...in his case it looks like it doesnt make a difference anymore. so he can buy the body first
    MTL BBB

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    Quote Originally Posted by DeSwitch View Post
    The 350D will make the investment of the 500mm looks stupid. Now the mid level XXD, why should i go halfway and later i still need to upgrade to the 1 series. I was thinking of bitting the bullet now, get the 1 series now and use it with my existing lens. den slowly get the 500mmf4 while keeping my 100-400 for flight shots.

    At least the 1 series focusing is sharper than the 350D not forgeting the bigger viewfinder.
    Why the 350D make investment of 500mm look stupid? Have you seen the shots of Romy Ocon (a.k.a Liquidstone?) He used a 350D to take some of the shots.

    http://www.pbase.com/liquidstone/image/52817418

    The shot above is proof that glass matters and not body.

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    Quote Originally Posted by DeSwitch View Post
    Hi Garion, like every birder, the final distination is a 1 series with either 500mm or 600mm. so i dont see the point of getting the XXD series. Might as well go straight into 1 series. My 350D is really crap for birding. The focusing sensor is not sharp enough. My 500mm will come in sooner or later but not now. You know my story...I have to convince my CFO to appreciate birding first. The african presentation post had already make my Visa easier to obtain. Now i need to show some result before i can put the monster lens at home.

    I did consider the 20D or the 30D but becos of 2 reasons that make me go for the 1Dmk2 instead. The 8.5fps for action (I misses a lot of good shot due to slow speed like birds flying in/out of their nest..opps) and the min f8 AF so that i can get slower and less expensive lense if my 500mm f4 dont materialise. I have a friend offering his under utilised 1dmk2 body in almost mint condition. BTW, how to check shutter count on the 1dmk2? According to him he only shoot 5 events with it so that about 5k shutter max. I was with hie for 2 event and we shot only ard 300 photos each. He is going for FF cos he is not a birder.
    Since you are really convinced that 1 series is the way to go, I can't really change your mind. Yes it is good definitely and a big step up from your 350D but still it is the man behind that counts.

    As dEthANGeL had said, camera is just a tool. Again, I stress this pt., with the right pair of hands and good eye, any camera can give great results. Its all about working with what you have, and maximizing it to the best of your abilities. The crucial part is still the lens though. Coz with the 100-400 IS, your 1DMk2 may not have enough reach, and you put a TC on that lens would result in slower AF and lousy IQ. Perhaps you can consider selling your 100-400 IS for a 400mm f5.6L to use for the time being before getting your 500mm. Pretty sharp and works well with 1.4x TC. Sonix is using this combo and he has great results using it.

    There is a software called CanCount that can extract shutter count from EXIF info of files taken with the 1 series body. PM me for more info.

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    that is a stunning shot, with a sigmonster @ 1/2s, i am truly impressed

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    that is a stunning shot, with a sigmonster @ 1/2s, i am truly impressed
    Yes it is downright amazing, dunno how he manages to do it... And the pic still so sharp.

  19. #39

    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    heh.. he never post his tripod set up...
    skali got some super rig..

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    See the little pix in my profile?
    The seagull was taken using a 350D, single shot. Point is one doen't need a top end camera is to get good shots.
    Last edited by creampuff; 4th October 2006 at 01:17 PM.

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