View Poll Results: Body upgrade 1st or Prime Lens 1st

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  • Go for the 1Dmk2

    8 15.69%
  • Go for the Prime Lens

    35 68.63%
  • Quit Birding and stay on general photography

    8 15.69%
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Thread: Body 1st or Lens 1st

  1. #1
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    Default Body 1st or Lens 1st

    For Birding, I have the following gears

    EOS350D body
    100-400mmL lens


    Question is should I get a 1Dmk2 body first or just stick to my 350D and get better prime lens first?

    I need the 8fps continous mode and also to add TC to my lens to have the reach and speed in taking action of birds. reason to justify to upgrade to 1dmk2

    If I stick to 350D, I need to get either a 500mm f4 or 300mm f2.8

    However eventually i think i will end up with a 1 series and 500mm f4

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    get the lens first

    if you go for body then you still don't have the reach
    but if you go for the lens then you can at least take some pictures while saving up for a body

  3. #3

    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    Quote Originally Posted by DeSwitch View Post
    For Birding, I have the following gears

    EOS350D body
    100-400mmL lens


    Question is should I get a 1Dmk2 body first or just stick to my 350D and get better prime lens first?

    I need the 8fps continous mode and also to add TC to my lens to have the reach and speed in taking action of birds. reason to justify to upgrade to 1dmk2

    If I stick to 350D, I need to get either a 500mm f4 or 300mm f2.8

    However eventually i think i will end up with a 1 series and 500mm f4
    i would say get the lens first but seems like you more or less made up your mind with those statements.

    you are right though. eventually you will end up with 1dm2 + 500mm

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    get the lens first

    if you go for body then you still don't have the reach
    but if you go for the lens then you can at least take some pictures while saving up for a body
    Whats the point. I will miss a lot of good action the 350D is too slow at 3fps only. my 350D focusing speed is damm slow.

    I still think getting the body 1st is better cos of the speed and saving by getting f4 lens instead of f2.8 lens

    just buying 2 or 3 pieces of f4 lens vs f2.8 lens will save enough to buy the 1dmk2 body. My 100-400 plus TC on the 1dmk2 will also give me the reach.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    Quote Originally Posted by DeSwitch View Post
    Whats the point. I will miss a lot of good action the 350D is too slow at 3fps only. my 350D focusing speed is damm slow.

    I still think getting the body 1st is better cos of the speed and saving by getting f4 lens instead of f2.8 lens

    just buying 2 or 3 pieces of f4 lens vs f2.8 lens will save enough to buy the 1dmk2 body. My 100-400 plus TC on the 1dmk2 will also give me the reach.
    remember the old days of manual focus cams? photographers still managed to get good birding shots. i think its about knowing your subject and anticipating it. difficult but not impossible.

  6. #6
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    i shoot flying bees with manual focus
    i also shoot sports with manual focus

    use the force, don't blame the equipment

  7. #7

    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    heh.. i no need to say one... u know my views already..

  8. #8

    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    Quote Originally Posted by jdredd View Post
    heh.. i no need to say one... u know my views already..
    which is? buy both ah?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    go for the lens now and hope that the price for the one series comes down....

  10. #10

    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    Quote Originally Posted by justshot View Post
    go for the lens now and hope that the price for the one series comes down....
    speaking of price... have to remember that the body depreciated a lot faster than the lens. go for the lens!

  11. #11

    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    I would say the body can wait, lens up first. The 8.5fps is the 1D Mark II N I think.
    5D MII w/16-35L,Sigma 28-70&Nikkors(35f2,85f1.4,105f2.5,180f2.8ED)

  12. #12

    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    Remember that one is 35mm and the other is APS size sensor. You will lose the "longer reach" of the telephoto lens on a 35mm sensor.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    Quote Originally Posted by Scaglietti View Post
    Remember that one is 35mm and the other is APS size sensor. You will lose the "longer reach" of the telephoto lens on a 35mm sensor.
    its just a "reach" like you said. nothing you can achieve with photoshop.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    Brother Calvin,

    It is a tough choice. (everything in life is about tough choices lol). You should know my stand on this. (see my sig lol) I was once exactly in your shoes, and asking the exact same question. I was advised some time ago by one experienced nature photographer to get the lens first. Body later. I did the exact opposite and now have really mixed feelings about my choice.

    First off, lets consider the benefits of either one. A pro body is truly a wonderful thing coz it has the AF speed, buffer and fps which allows you to capture the shots more easily. In wildlife and nature photography, speed is the key as crucial moments can happen very quickly. The main factor is AF speed (i.e. the time it takes for cam to lock onto the subject). Yes lens does play a part too, but usually the body is the main culprit here. With non pro bodies, focusing tends to be slower and takes longer to lock on (i.e. it hunts). It can be extremely frustrating sometimes, the bird could be merrily displaying in front of you but your focus is hunting all over the shop! By the time it locks the bugger has already disappeared.

    Now the lens. A long telephoto lens is truly the most important tool in any serious wildlife photographers's bag. Why? It offers superb image quality and most importantly, reach. Which negates the need to stack teleconverters and also maintain a safe working distance from the subject. It takes some time to master yes, but with the proper hands it can produce excellent results with just any body, no matter 1 series or your 350D.

    Here's my suggestion. You might possibly consider this path which is more cost effective than just upgrading both lens + body to your desired combo which will be a killer to your bank account. Sell off your 350D, perhaps a couple of other gears you feel you do not use that much, maybe even your 100-400L, and put the money on a 2nd hand 20D or 30D. The AF is better than the one on 350D, more robust body, and also 5 fps, with this body it is a very decent combo for bird photography. You also keep the 1.6x crop factor for added reach. Then, go for the 300mm f2.8 or 500mm f4. The pro body can wait till later, as prices are falling all the time, but at least for the time being you will have a decent working combo in your hands.

    Quote Originally Posted by madmacs View Post
    you are right though. eventually you will end up with 1dm2 + 500mm
    This is almost a given. Most bird photographers I know who end up in this money and time sucking hobby end up with this combo. This poison has no known cure.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    Quote Originally Posted by Scaglietti View Post
    Remember that one is 35mm and the other is APS size sensor. You will lose the "longer reach" of the telephoto lens on a 35mm sensor.
    1DMkIIN has a 1.3x crop sensor. Its not full frame. 1Ds MkII is though. But yeah, you have a valid point too.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    No offense, but seems to me you guys are really passionate and print lots of money at home.
    These stuff are bloody expensive...
    But wat the hell.

    Anyway, i agree with Garion. Go with the lens. I believe with a good company of lens, the body can wait. I believe once you have a variety of lens, the only thing that you probably need to upgrade would be the body. (I rarely see the price of a lens drop... only by a mild amount...)

    And about the bigger burst capacity, if you have lots of patience, you will find the shot that you want and the bigger burst capacity wouldn't matter.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    I'd say go for the lens too. Save and you'll get it in due time - patience is always good.

    I've always gone for lenses first. Body later. As tempting as it may seem (Now is 1DMk2 dumping season) just concentrate on gettting the lens of your dreams. Though you may miss out certain shots - try try again, you've got to put more effort in getting the shot ,though a xxD / 1 series will make it look peanuts...

    Nature photography is UBER expensive. You still need to set aside funds for "accessories" - Looking @ the usual gear (Gitzo tripod + Gimbal + Wimberly + Markins / Acratech / Arca Swiss) Lens raincoat for those rainy days ... its seriously scary.

    The 100-400 would do you good for now - I know how DeSwitch feels as I've paired a 300D + 100-400 ... and the AF crawls / hunts on certain situations ...

    Another thing is - 1DMk2 + 1.4x TC + 100-400 will give you the reach but AF will still be hell slow. Believe me, i've tried it and it hunts in certain situations and it'll piss you off even more and you'll be restricted to the center AF PT ...
    Last edited by dEthANGeL; 3rd October 2006 at 07:53 PM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    You dun need 8.5 fps... if you dun understand you subjects or dun have shutter disipline.. you'll juz end up wif more unwanted frames anyway.

    All you really need is a 1.4x TC on your 100-400. Believe me, my 10D can AF track on a flying bird using 1.4xTC on a 400 f5.6. 30D now gives me slight improvement (less hunting) in AF over my 10D.
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  19. #19
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    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN View Post
    You dun need 8.5 fps... if you dun understand you subjects or dun have shutter disipline.. you'll juz end up wif more unwanted frames anyway.

    All you really need is a 1.4x TC on your 100-400. Believe me, my 10D can AF track on a flying bird using 1.4xTC on a 400 f5.6. 30D now gives me slight improvement (less hunting) in AF over my 10D.
    I belief you tape the pins on the TC to be able to use AF cos 10D would not be able to AF at f8. I tape the pins too with a canon 1.4X mk2 TC to get 560mm f8 but its too slow and needs excellent lighting to get the AF to works.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Body 1st or Lens 1st

    Quote Originally Posted by dEthANGeL View Post
    I'd say go for the lens too. Save and you'll get it in due time - patience is always good.

    I've always gone for lenses first. Body later. As tempting as it may seem (Now is 1DMk2 dumping season) just concentrate on gettting the lens of your dreams. Though you may miss out certain shots - try try again, you've got to put more effort in getting the shot ,though a xxD / 1 series will make it look peanuts...

    Nature photography is UBER expensive. You still need to set aside funds for "accessories" - Looking @ the usual gear (Gitzo tripod + Gimbal + Wimberly + Markins / Acratech / Arca Swiss) Lens raincoat for those rainy days ... its seriously scary.

    The 100-400 would do you good for now - I know how DeSwitch feels as I've paired a 300D + 100-400 ... and the AF crawls / hunts on certain situations ...

    Another thing is - 1DMk2 + 1.4x TC + 100-400 will give you the reach but AF will still be hell slow. Believe me, i've tried it and it hunts in certain situations and it'll piss you off even more and you'll be restricted to the center AF PT ...

    The accessories you mentioned is in my gears inventory already. Good CF tripod with Gimbal head. even the camo is already in. what is the benifite of getting say a 500mm f4 and use it on my 350D. The 350D will make the investment of the 500mm looks stupid. Now the mid level XXD, why should i go halfway and later i still need to upgrade to the 1 series. I was thinking of bitting the bullet now, get the 1 series now and use it with my existing lens. den slowly get the 500mmf4 while keeping my 100-400 for flight shots.

    At least the 1 series focusing is sharper than the 350D not forgeting the bigger viewfinder.

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