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Thread: CS "critics" suck?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Pablo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Charby's Photo Sessions: Veron

    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp View Post
    lee...I know you're a newbie, and I think overall the forum had been very kind to you ever since the stephanie and yiming thread..but

    Just a note:

    I believe all shots is about respect. Respect towards the model, towards your skills as a photographer. In short, treat your pictures with respect, do Quality Checks, do your best to make her look the way you wanted to look (minus the primal urges and needs).

    I know she's pretty, she's vivacious and so on..but doesn't mean you have to flood us with a ton of photographs that we could see you didn't bother to QC or even research how to make it even better for EACH photograph. To me, and many others, that's disrespect, firstly to yourself and secondly towards the model. Photography is not simply snap and shoot and tada! Masterpiece! Even if you're a newbie, effort is often shown through photographs, we could see.

    By the way,
    Could I be unrestrained?

    What in hell is this? 34 pictures of her showing her in awkward postures, harsh flashes to the point I could see sweat pores on her face literally. Guide her to show what you think its her best features, not blasely point and shoot. If she poses, think how it could be further manipulated to reflect what you think about her. Frankly all I see is just speaks 'sex'. And even that is not refined further except you probably got too excited pressing the shutter.

    Sorry to say, but I shall adopt DP persona (sorry doc):

    All those pics belong in the bin. They suck.

    Put . in. the . effort. to make her look good.
    Put . in. the . effort. to make sure each photograph you post LOOKS good to you.
    Put . in. the . effort. to go to the point where you feel you did your damn best and you don't care what others say.

    Show her , and yourself respect.
    Hello Wisp,

    And might I add all else that use the term "SUCK".

    I can't speak for others, but I find this term "sucks" a very degrading view.

    Ok, so you want to put your view across and believe in freedom of speach (blah blah blah).

    But words such as this are like saying " you should'nt have a camera because your works are sh1t".

    Ok, so you have a point of view. Why not try to find an alternative way of expressing your view.

    I am shure that some of your earlier works you may look upon as sub-standard, but how would you feel if someone you showed them to said, "your work SUCKS".

    Put yourself in the place of those you are commenting on please

    Sorry Wisp, I am not directing this at you alone. It is a general request.

    We are all learners here... those that profess to be "PRO" should qualify themselves as such before making such harsh statements.

    Ok... flame me... I am just a drummer
    Time, is an effortless construction :)

  2. #2

    Default Re: Charby's Photo Sessions: Veron

    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo View Post
    Hello Wisp,

    And might I add all else that use the term "SUCK".

    I can't speak for others, but I find this term "sucks" a very degrading view.

    Ok, so you want to put your view across and believe in freedom of speach (blah blah blah).

    But words such as this are like saying " you should'nt have a camera because your works are sh1t".

    Ok, so you have a point of view. Why not try to find an alternative way of expressing your view.

    I am shure that some of your earlier works you may look upon as sub-standard, but how would you feel if someone you showed them to said, "your work SUCKS".

    Put yourself in the place of those you are commenting on please

    Sorry Wisp, I am not directing this at you alone. It is a general request.

    We are all learners here... those that profess to be "PRO" should qualify themselves as such before making such harsh statements.

    Ok... flame me... I am just a drummer
    Come on pablo, grow up. If the works posted are so bad, they suck, then what is the problem of calling them as they are. they suck!

    If my picture is that bad, and you say it's suck, well, I deserve it.
    deadpoet
    my portfolio

  3. #3
    Senior Member Pablo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Charby's Photo Sessions: Veron

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    Come on pablo, grow up. If the works posted are so bad, they suck, then what is the problem of calling them as they are. they suck!

    If my picture is that bad, and you say it's suck, well, I deserve it.
    Hi Deadpoet,

    I decided to remove you from my "ignore list as I still get to see what you wright in replies".

    As you know, I have never met you.
    We could have many things to share if I did meet you over there

    But.

    My view on teaching someone about photography or anything else for that matter, is not helpfull by being downright insulting.

    Ok, if you don't like something, say you dont' like it.

    Give some usefull information....

    I have never commented on your works (never seen any recently), but if I was to, if I didn't like it I wouldn't say,"it sucks".

    I have more respect for both you and others.

    We are all here to share and learn. Why degrade someone in the process

    I can't imagine "Pro's" that do works for (Life,Inside, etc) drop by and critisise works posted here with words such as "SUCKS".

    Such Criticism seems to come from those that are "want to be's but arn't"

    As I have said," I don't know you personally" and who knows, we might be good friends if we met.
    But, unless you are reviewing photo's that are being presented to you for your magazine etc.
    Please try to be tactfull.

    Cheers
    Time, is an effortless construction :)

  4. #4

    Default Re: Charby's Photo Sessions: Veron

    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo View Post
    Hi Deadpoet,

    I decided to remove you from my "ignore list as I still get to see what you wright in replies".

    As you know, I have never met you.
    We could have many things to share if I did meet you over there

    But.

    My view on teaching someone about photography or anything else for that matter, is not helpfull by being downright insulting.

    Ok, if you don't like something, say you dont' like it.

    Give some usefull information....

    I have never commented on your works (never seen any recently), but if I was to, if I didn't like it I wouldn't say,"it sucks".

    I have more respect for both you and others.

    We are all here to share and learn. Why degrade someone in the process

    I can't imagine "Pro's" that do works for (Life,Inside, etc) drop by and critisise works posted here with words such as "SUCKS".

    Such Criticism seems to come from those that are "want to be's but arn't"

    As I have said," I don't know you personally" and who knows, we might be good friends if we met.
    But, unless you are reviewing photo's that are being presented to you for your magazine etc.
    Please try to be tactfull.

    Cheers
    I never degrade anyone, I damn well will degrade a photograph or even a photographer, but not the person.

    the problem here, is we are too nice, too sensitive, poster at the end of the day have no idea how bad the pictures really are. It's much kinder to let them know the hard reality.

    Again, who knows what my pictures look like, maybe you are right, they suck. but when I criticise, the pictures are bad, and the worse one, they drop into my "SUCK" catagory, and I won't mince word.

    Sorry Pablo, you are not bad enough for me to put you in my ignore list.
    deadpoet
    my portfolio

  5. #5

    Default Re: Charby's Photo Sessions: Veron

    How shall I put it?

    Perhaps nobody looks at Roget's Thesaurus anymore? Perhaps I am not tuned into the "Now and In" generation?

    Are there no alternatives to words?

    How about

    "These images are really terrible",

    or

    "If I were you, I will put them into a place not to be shown to anyone"

    No. It seems that to be crude and unfeeling is "cool". It seems that to be crass is something that one can be proud of.

    Birds of the same feathers flock together.

    Can birds of different plumage flock together?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Charby's Photo Sessions: Veron

    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo View Post
    As I have said," I don't know you personally" and who knows, we might be good friends if we met.
    But, unless you are reviewing photo's that are being presented to you for your magazine etc.
    Please try to be tactfull.

    Cheers
    Brudder, i think by now you should realise that no matter how you try telling our poet or his student about his commenting style, he is not gonna change a bit .... so dont waste your energy trying ....

    I have come to realise that if there is no DP's comment in an image, then the image can either be OK or the image sucks so badly that he doesnt even bother to make any comment. And for those images which has his comment, i guess, to him at least, there is still some hope/room for improvement. So let's look at the positive side of things.....

    But frankly, it is still so much better to read his comments than to have those blood-brothers making those flowery supporting comments. - which i feel is very pathetic when it is obvious that some of the images really suck big time! But when the image is really good, of course such support statements are welcome.
    always the Light, .... always.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Charby's Photo Sessions: Veron

    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo View Post
    Hello Wisp,

    And might I add all else that use the term "SUCK".

    I can't speak for others, but I find this term "sucks" a very degrading view.

    Ok, so you want to put your view across and believe in freedom of speach (blah blah blah).

    But words such as this are like saying " you should'nt have a camera because your works are sh1t".

    Ok, so you have a point of view. Why not try to find an alternative way of expressing your view.

    I am shure that some of your earlier works you may look upon as sub-standard, but how would you feel if someone you showed them to said, "your work SUCKS".

    Put yourself in the place of those you are commenting on please

    Sorry Wisp, I am not directing this at you alone. It is a general request.

    We are all learners here... those that profess to be "PRO" should qualify themselves as such before making such harsh statements.

    Ok... flame me... I am just a drummer
    *sigh* Nah, you aren't a bad guy. Just your opinion. I won't take back my words though.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Charby's Photo Sessions: Veron

    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo View Post
    Hi Deadpoet,

    I decided to remove you from my "ignore list as I still get to see what you wright in replies".

    As you know, I have never met you.
    We could have many things to share if I did meet you over there

    But.

    My view on teaching someone about photography or anything else for that matter, is not helpfull by being downright insulting.

    Ok, if you don't like something, say you dont' like it.

    Give some usefull information....

    I have never commented on your works (never seen any recently), but if I was to, if I didn't like it I wouldn't say,"it sucks".

    I have more respect for both you and others.

    We are all here to share and learn. Why degrade someone in the process

    I can't imagine "Pro's" that do works for (Life,Inside, etc) drop by and critisise works posted here with words such as "SUCKS".

    Such Criticism seems to come from those that are "want to be's but arn't"

    As I have said," I don't know you personally" and who knows, we might be good friends if we met.
    But, unless you are reviewing photo's that are being presented to you for your magazine etc.
    Please try to be tactfull.

    Cheers

    this issue surfaces so often that it's so difficult to make comments alot of times.

    what i believe in is that when a comment is handed out on a picture, it is directed at the picture. the only time a negative comment turns into an insult is when the creator of the picture equates himself/herself to the picture. as such i cannot understand how comments such as 'the picture sucks' should cause the picture creator to become insulted. as such you're welcomed to label my pictures as sucky pictures, anyway i know they are, and i'm not satisfied with what i've produced.

    as for those who truly equate themselves to their pictures, having such strong attachment to them, don't post the pictures. if not, it's always wise to include inside the thread a phrase like

    'strictly for viewing only' or 'this is personal'

    i don't believe in commenting on personal things, no matter how horrible they seem.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Charby's Photo Sessions: Veron

    Can I say the "critics" here in CS forum suck?

    Just like old school shaolin temple masters, they only know how to bellow "You suck! Fock off my mountain!"

    Hardly enough efforts are seen from the critics to provide insights to guide the TS. Yeah, you could say "Underexposed! Bad poses! Bad this and that...", but has anyone even provided the TS with good sample pictures or explanations to help him understand the problems?

    If one claims "underexposed!" for example, how about providing him a reference for him to compare? How about editing his work to show him? (with permission from him of course).

    Yeah, everyone can be a critic. But a good critic is one who not only criticise technically but also one who can provide inspirations and motivations.

    The manners of some of the critics here only me laugh. When I need some kind of solace, I simply come into the critiques corner for some entertainment!

  10. #10

    Default Re: Charby's Photo Sessions: Veron

    Quote Originally Posted by canongrapherL View Post
    Can I say the "critics" here in CS forum suck?

    Just like old school shaolin temple masters, they only know how to bellow "You suck! Fock off my mountain!"

    Hardly enough efforts are seen from the critics to provide insights to guide the TS. Yeah, you could say "Underexposed! Bad poses! Bad this and that...", but has anyone even provided the TS with good sample pictures or explanations to help him understand the problems?

    If one claims "underexposed!" for example, how about providing him a reference for him to compare? How about editing his work to show him? (with permission from him of course).

    Yeah, everyone can be a critic. But a good critic is one who not only criticise technically but also one who can provide inspirations and motivations.

    The manners of some of the critics here only me laugh. When I need some kind of solace, I simply come into the critiques corner for some entertainment!

    Well said!

    Unfortunately the harshest critics are often those who do not demonstrate what good photographs are.

    In such a subject like photography which is basically visual, many here chose to talk rather than demonstrate, illustrate, inspire, and motivate with good visual guidance.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Charby's Photo Sessions: Veron

    Quote Originally Posted by student View Post
    Well said!

    Unfortunately the harshest critics are often those who do not demonstrate what good photographs are.

    In such a subject like photography which is basically visual, many here chose to talk rather than demonstrate, illustrate, inspire, and motivate with good visual guidance.
    well, i look forward to your examples of what a good bikini shoot should look like then..

  12. #12

    Default Re: Charby's Photo Sessions: Veron

    Quote Originally Posted by jdredd View Post
    well, i look forward to your examples of what a good bikini shoot should look like then..
    It you have eyes and assuming you can read, you will notice that I never give comments of ladies in bikinis. Whatever comments I make in threads with bikinis are general comments relating to photography and photography "education" at large. And I seldom give critiques anyway.

    And assuming you have eyes and you can read, you will also notice that unlike some people who never post, or posted only once, I chose to show my views of people photography through my pictures. Whether people like my viewpoints is of secondary concern.

    I notice that the most vociferous in criticising others are also those who have the least to show. I wonder why?

    Half empty cans make the most noise?

  13. #13

    Default Re: Charby's Photo Sessions: Veron

    Quote Originally Posted by canongrapherL View Post
    Can I say the "critics" here in CS forum suck?


    If one claims "underexposed!" for example, how about providing him a reference for him to compare? How about editing his work to show him? (with permission from him of course).

    Yeah, everyone can be a critic. But a good critic is one who not only criticise technically but also one who can provide inspirations and motivations.
    that is the most inane comment ive heard all day.

    if we apply your rather twisted logic. that means..
    no point reading movie reviews, if the reviewer cant point to a movie he directed.
    no point reading car reviews, if the car reviewer cant show us a car he made.
    no point reading book review, if the book reviewer cant show us a book he wrote.
    and one can go on like this.. for practically any other form of review or criticism.

    it is not a prerequisite, to being a critic, to be good in the medium that you are criticising.
    someone can appreciate photographs, by just looking at them. and from there, you form a view as to what constitutes good photographs, and what constitutes bad photographs.

    dont get me wrong, if you have an example, then by all means post it. but it doesnt mean, if we dont have a body of our own work that we can show to illustrate our points, that we should be precluded from doing so.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Charby's Photo Sessions: Veron

    wait a minute. what movie he directed and car rubbish???

    When I said "provide a reference to the TS" doesnt necessary means it must be the critic's work!!!

    It can a fabulous famous picture, it can be a weblink, it can be a reference to another thread of portraiture images and written article. It can be a reference to a famous photography book. Nobody said it must be the critic's own masterpiece! Get the picture dude? The problem here is that it is all talks only which does not provide proper guidance to the TS!



    Quote Originally Posted by jdredd View Post
    that is the most inane comment ive heard all day.

    if we apply your rather twisted logic. that means..
    no point reading movie reviews, if the reviewer cant point to a movie he directed.
    no point reading car reviews, if the car reviewer cant show us a car he made.
    no point reading book review, if the book reviewer cant show us a book he wrote.
    and one can go on like this.. for practically any other form of review or criticism.

    it is not a prerequisite, to being a critic, to be good in the medium that you are criticising.
    someone can appreciate photographs, by just looking at them. and from there, you form a view as to what constitutes good photographs, and what constitutes bad photographs.

    dont get me wrong, if you have an example, then by all means post it. but it doesnt mean, if we dont have a body of our own work that we can show to illustrate our points, that we should be precluded from doing so.
    Last edited by canongrapherL; 3rd October 2006 at 10:35 AM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Charby's Photo Sessions: Veron

    Quote Originally Posted by canongrapherL View Post
    wait a minute. what movie he directed and car rubbish???

    When I said "provide a reference to the TS" doesnt necessary means it must be the critic's work!!!

    It can a fabulous famous picture, it can be a weblink, it can be a reference to another thread of portraiture images. It can be a reference to a famous photography book. Nobody said it must be the critic's own masterpiece! Get the picture dude?
    if he has eyes, and a mouse button and a couple of working fingers, then pray, tell me, why should i spoonfeed someone when he can just surf the net and look for himself?
    theres many good sites where you can see brilliant examples of all different types of genres...
    e.g. photosig... flickr...

    in any event, ive yet to see any TS, in a response to C&C, say, oh, i dont understand what you mean, can you please illustrate?

    underexposure, is underexposure. doesnt take a genius to figure it out.

    but maybe you need help yourself? in which case, if you feel you want good illustrations to help your own photography, do let me know and ill bemore than happy to guide you on the right path.
    Last edited by jdredd; 3rd October 2006 at 10:33 AM.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Charby's Photo Sessions: Veron

    Quote Originally Posted by jdredd View Post
    if he has eyes, and a mouse button and a couple of working fingers, then pray, tell me, why should i spoonfeed someone when he can just surf the net and look for himself?
    theres many good sites where you can see brilliant examples of all different types of genres...
    e.g. photosig... flickr...

    in any event, ive yet to see any TS, in a response to C&C, say, oh, i dont understand what you mean, can you please illustrate?

    underexposure, is underexposure. doesnt take a genius to figure it out.

    but maybe you need help yourself? in which case, if you feel you want good illustrations to help your own photography, do let me know and ill bemore than happy to guide you on the right path.
    Well, obviously with your logic, it would be more helpfull to tell a newbie that his work "sucks" than to give him example of do and don't do.

    This will motivate him more by humiliating him than by showing him the way.

    That's true that, because all of us are so smart, we don't need to be spoonfed and understand his error and correct them on the spot !!!
    It's so obvious that, everybody here has been improving so much by himself that he's able to produce some Herb Ritz or Helmut Newton shots anytime.

    After 15 years amateur photography, I still enjoy taking courses where teachers uses masterpieces to support their explanations.

    Again, and to come back to the origin of the problem, DP IS able to provide constructive comment and I often share his point. But it's taking him a lot to avoid taking the shortest way to vulgarity. That's what I find sad.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Charby's Photo Sessions: Veron

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiip View Post
    Well, obviously with your logic, it would be more helpfull to tell a newbie that his work "sucks" than to give him example of do and don't do.

    This will motivate him more by humiliating him than by showing him the way.
    i dont think i said that. im all for constructive C&C, and definitely more so than just saying "it sucks". but where i draw the line, is having to plough through and post illustrations to make my points.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Charby's Photo Sessions: Veron

    Quote Originally Posted by canongrapherL View Post
    wait a minute. what movie he directed and car rubbish???

    When I said "provide a reference to the TS" doesnt necessary means it must be the critic's work!!!

    It can a fabulous famous picture, it can be a weblink, it can be a reference to another thread of portraiture images and written article. It can be a reference to a famous photography book. Nobody said it must be the critic's own masterpiece! Get the picture dude? The problem here is that it is all talks only which does not provide proper guidance to the TS!
    Again, you clarified things for me! Thanks.

    In actual fact, I had previously took pains to search images from books and the net, well known images from acknowledged masters to illustrate certain points. Down load these images or scan them.

    The result from such efforts?

    I was accused of being insecure! That I showed such images are something not to be desired!

    Such is the twisted mind of these people that to talk logic to them is like singing to pigs!

  19. #19

    Default CS "critics" suck?

    Quote Originally Posted by canongrapherL View Post
    Can I say the "critics" here in CS forum suck?

    Just like old school shaolin temple masters, they only know how to bellow "You suck! Fock off my mountain!"

    Hardly enough efforts are seen from the critics to provide insights to guide the TS. Yeah, you could say "Underexposed! Bad poses! Bad this and that...", but has anyone even provided the TS with good sample pictures or explanations to help him understand the problems?

    If one claims "underexposed!" for example, how about providing him a reference for him to compare? How about editing his work to show him? (with permission from him of course).

    Yeah, everyone can be a critic. But a good critic is one who not only criticise technically but also one who can provide inspirations and motivations.

    The manners of some of the critics here only me laugh. When I need some kind of solace, I simply come into the critiques corner for some entertainment!
    I invite all members who want to have a say please come here instead of messing with other people's threads in the Portraits and Posses section.
    This is a carried forward thread from here ...
    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthrea...=226294&page=3
    always the Light, .... always.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Charby's Photo Sessions: Veron

    Quote Originally Posted by student View Post
    Again, you clarified things for me! Thanks.

    In actual fact, I had previously took pains to search images from books and the net, well known images from acknowledged masters to illustrate certain points. Down load these images or scan them.

    The result from such efforts?

    I was accused of being insecure! That I showed such images are something not to be desired!

    Such is the twisted mind of these people that to talk logic to them is like singing to pigs!
    student, how do u expect anyone to take you seriously, when you resort to language no better than a fishmonger's wife?

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