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Thread: How to shoot banquet?

  1. #1

    Default banquet shooting tips + (offtopic jap trip)

    I've a D200 with SB800.
    attended a wedding recently and was trying to capture group shots.
    may i be advised what kind of settings is best for the d200?

    i'm shooting using flash white balance, sb800 to TLL BL FP, and program mode on my D200.
    using 18-200 vr lens.
    i notice usually the shutter speed is 60 and on F4.(when in program mode).

    what mode is best for shooting these banquets?and what do you set on your flash?
    i point the flash 45degrees upwards.is that advisable for high ceilings?my pics came out a bit underexposed.but when i point direct (with the sb800 diffuser on), pics look overexpose.. i usually use center-weighted metering.

    also, is there a way to correct the color of the background since ballroom are usually tungsten kind of lighting.this is because my subjects come out 'white'(because of flash), and yet background is like orangy(because the d200 was set to flashWB.)

    pls help.appreciated.
    Last edited by jeanie; 31st October 2006 at 05:13 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: how to shoot banquet?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeanie View Post
    I've a D200 with SB800.
    attended a wedding recently and was trying to capture group shots.
    may i be advised what kind of settings is best for the d200?

    i'm shooting using flash white balance, sb800 to TLL BL FP, and program mode on my D200.
    using 18-200 vr lens.
    i notice usually the shutter speed is 60 and on F4.(when in program mode).

    what mode is best for shooting these banquets?and what do you set on your flash?
    i point the flash 45degrees upwards.is that advisable for high ceilings?my pics came out a bit underexposed.but when i point direct (with the sb800 diffuser on), pics look overexpose.. i usually use center-weighted metering.

    also, is there a way to correct the color of the background since ballroom are usually tungsten kind of lighting.this is because my subjects come out 'white'(because of flash), and yet background is like orangy(because the d200 was set to flashWB.)

    pls help.appreciated.
    Care to show a pic so can tell the problem clearly.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Cheesecake's Avatar
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    Default Re: how to shoot banquet?

    yeaps, like wat creaxion said, we need a photo to pinpoint ur problem.
    You'll Never Walk Alone! - i have the best job in the world!

  4. #4

    Default Re: how to shoot banquet?

    wanted to post but my friend said he rather not share the pics online...
    well, got to respect his wishes.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: how to shoot banquet?

    Oh, what a pity... jz so eager to have a look coz I'm also going to take some banquet pic soon.

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    Default Re: how to shoot banquet?

    Quote Originally Posted by rhealk View Post
    Oh, what a pity... jz so eager to have a look coz I'm also going to take some banquet pic soon.
    Show some of your usual pics and we hope to be able to roughly tell u what's wrong.

  7. #7

    Default Re: how to shoot banquet?

    From experience, I'll use SB800 with stofen-omnibounce and bounce the flash 60/75 degrees. As for WB settings, you got to play around manual settings, between 3000K to 4500K if I am not wrong. The reason why your background was in orange hue was because your WB setting was too warm (Flash/Daylight ~ 5300K).

    I will advise not to use Program mode but Aperture-priority mode instead and set the aperture at f5.6. f4 is a little too shallow for the DoF and may not be able to get everyone in the group shot in focus. You will have to bump up the ISO to at least 800 so that your hands are steady enough to capture the shot as the shutter will be around 1/25s - 1/50s.

    Hope this help shed some light and provide some pointers for your next wedding shoot

  8. #8

    Default Re: how to shoot banquet?

    Quote Originally Posted by moriahphotos View Post
    From experience, I'll use SB800 with stofen-omnibounce and bounce the flash 60/75 degrees. As for WB settings, you got to play around manual settings, between 3000K to 4500K if I am not wrong. The reason why your background was in orange hue was because your WB setting was too warm (Flash/Daylight ~ 5300K).

    I will advise not to use Program mode but Aperture-priority mode instead and set the aperture at f5.6. f4 is a little too shallow for the DoF and may not be able to get everyone in the group shot in focus. You will have to bump up the ISO to at least 800 so that your hands are steady enough to capture the shot as the shutter will be around 1/25s - 1/50s.

    Hope this help shed some light and provide some pointers for your next wedding shoot

    thanks for the advice.

    1)why stofen since sb800 comes with the diffuser?any difference?i've got the lightsphere cloudy type too but didnt use it as it will come out MORE underexp for the group shots.

    2)if i use aperture priority, do i have to set to AA in the SB800?or still leave it at TTL BL?

    3)does the FP means that the shutter speed will automatically sync to 1/250 as in the manual?

    4)will ISO800 be a bit too grainy, noisy if blown to 8R?

    appreciated.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: how to shoot banquet?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeanie View Post
    thanks for the advice.

    1)why stofen since sb800 comes with the diffuser?any difference?i've got the lightsphere cloudy type too but didnt use it as it will come out MORE underexp for the group shots.

    2)if i use aperture priority, do i have to set to AA in the SB800?or still leave it at TTL BL?

    3)does the FP means that the shutter speed will automatically sync to 1/250 as in the manual?

    4)will ISO800 be a bit too grainy, noisy if blown to 8R?

    appreciated.
    Answer to 1 - Shd not underexpose unless u control the cam wrongly. Cheese is an advocator of LS

    Answer to 2 - No fixed answer. U have to try

    Answer to 3 - Flash sync if I am correct in D200 is 1/250

    Answer to 4 - Noise depends on how well expose your photo is and in what condition u shoot.

    Opinions of the last advice given. If your hand is not stable, the speed of 1/30 to 1/40 may render your image blur.

    The impression u gave me is that u are very unfamiliar with Flash photography. Hope that u are not the official photographer

  10. #10
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    Default Re: how to shoot banquet?

    1)why stofen since sb800 comes with the diffuser?any difference?i've got the lightsphere cloudy type too but didnt use it as it will come out MORE underexp for the group shots.

    The lightsphere will cause a lot of light loss as it's non-directional, and if your subject is too far away, the flash might not have enough power to light up the subject and hence the underexposure. To overcome this, use a higher ISO rating, or bigger aperture, or use the lightsphere dome and shoot direct (not too sure if the cloudy lightsphere comes with the dome).

    2)if i use aperture priority, do i have to set to AA in the SB800?or still leave it at TTL BL?

    Why do you use TTL BL? It's usually use for fill flash so it will try to expose the subject as bright as the background. Have you tried TTL mode? It might give u better results. For myself, I prefer TTL to AA mode, but others have had good results with AA mode too, so I guess both modes can be used provided you know how to handle it.

    3)does the FP means that the shutter speed will automatically sync to 1/250 as in the manual?

    FP is for syncing faster than 1/250 and you lose a lot of light with that mode. If you do not need to shoot faster than 1/250, just use the normal TTL mode.

    4)will ISO800 be a bit too grainy, noisy if blown to 8R?

    Never tried before, so cannot comment.

  11. #11

    Default Re: how to shoot banquet?

    Quote Originally Posted by CreaXion View Post
    Answer to 1 - Shd not underexpose unless u control the cam wrongly. Cheese is an advocator of LS

    Answer to 2 - No fixed answer. U have to try

    Answer to 3 - Flash sync if I am correct in D200 is 1/250

    Answer to 4 - Noise depends on how well expose your photo is and in what condition u shoot.

    Opinions of the last advice given. If your hand is not stable, the speed of 1/30 to 1/40 may render your image blur.

    The impression u gave me is that u are very unfamiliar with Flash photography. Hope that u are not the official photographer

    as for ans to (3), if flash sync is 1/250, is it different from my camera's shutter speed of say...1/60?sorry, me newbie, i dont know the diff between flashsync speed and shutter speed.

    i've tried 1/30 with VR on(without flash), and i've gotten some clear shots.so i reckon my hands are ...'ok'.

    if i'm the official photographer, then i wont be posting in thie newbies folder.
    i shoot for fun.

  12. #12

    Default Re: how to shoot banquet?

    Quote Originally Posted by frenchbean View Post
    1)why stofen since sb800 comes with the diffuser?any difference?i've got the lightsphere cloudy type too but didnt use it as it will come out MORE underexp for the group shots.

    The lightsphere will cause a lot of light loss as it's non-directional, and if your subject is too far away, the flash might not have enough power to light up the subject and hence the underexposure. To overcome this, use a higher ISO rating, or bigger aperture, or use the lightsphere dome and shoot direct (not too sure if the cloudy lightsphere comes with the dome).

    2)if i use aperture priority, do i have to set to AA in the SB800?or still leave it at TTL BL?

    Why do you use TTL BL? It's usually use for fill flash so it will try to expose the subject as bright as the background. Have you tried TTL mode? It might give u better results. For myself, I prefer TTL to AA mode, but others have had good results with AA mode too, so I guess both modes can be used provided you know how to handle it.

    3)does the FP means that the shutter speed will automatically sync to 1/250 as in the manual?

    FP is for syncing faster than 1/250 and you lose a lot of light with that mode. If you do not need to shoot faster than 1/250, just use the normal TTL mode.

    4)will ISO800 be a bit too grainy, noisy if blown to 8R?

    Never tried before, so cannot comment.

    1)yes, the lightsphere cloudy comes with the dome.have not tried shooting direct though.

    2)i use TTL BL is because i havent played with flash settings, and i could have sworn when i read the manual, it says something like when TTL is on, the BL will be there? correct me please.
    so, is TTLBL for daylight fill flash with matrix metering?

    3)my flash shows FP on.so, does that mean my shutter speed is 1/250?then how come my cam shows 1/60 at program mode?
    i'm really confused with flash sync speed and shutter speed on camera.please educate me.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: how to shoot banquet?

    2)i use TTL BL is because i havent played with flash settings, and i could have sworn when i read the manual, it says something like when TTL is on, the BL will be there? correct me please.
    so, is TTLBL for daylight fill flash with matrix metering?

    You can turn off the BL by pressing the mode button one more time. And yes, I think that's the usual application for TTL BL.

    3)my flash shows FP on.so, does that mean my shutter speed is 1/250?then how come my cam shows 1/60 at program mode?
    i'm really confused with flash sync speed and shutter speed on camera.please educate me.

    FP on does not mean the shutter speed will be 1/250. It just means that it supports flash sync beyond 1/250, which like I said before will cause a lot of light loss cuz the flash actually shoots in short pulses to overcome the high shutter speed.

    Here are some helpful websites.

    http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/syncspeed.htm
    http://www.photozone.de/3Technology/flashtec4.htm

    You can find a lot more if you google it.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: how to shoot banquet?

    Aperture priority mode, ISO 400, flash with bounce card with tilt at 75-60 degree, stand further back for lower ceiling..if ceiling really too high(>5m) use direct or 45 degree tilt flash with diffuser..bounce oni if ceiling is white, if colored ceiling forget abt bounce, u will get a color cast..

    set slowest shutter speed to 1/30 or lower but no lower than 1/8(1/4 hard to achieve steady shot, dun bother using VR, oni drain ur batteries)..

    f5.6-f8 for group shot, f3.5-f5.6 for better bokeh effects..

    Or use manual flash or auto flash
    General rule:
    aperture = GN/Distance from subject

    IIRC - FP is oni available for matrix & center weight metering, not for spot metering..
    (Edit: my mistake, FP is high speed sync, must be turn off on using ur camera)
    Last edited by blazer_workz; 2nd October 2006 at 01:39 PM.
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  15. #15

    Default Re: how to shoot banquet?

    thanks for the advice guys.i'll try all these on my DnD and i'll share the pics this time round.

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    Default Re: how to shoot banquet?

    frenchbean, .....

    My thanks to you for your elaborate explanation on TTL and/or TTL-BL.

    I'm learning a lot of stuffs already. In fact, I'm also preparing for my 1st wedding banquet shoot this coming November. I still have a lot of things to go through before the BIG DAY, (as if I'm the one who's getting married).
    Last edited by sophiandy; 2nd October 2006 at 01:29 PM.
    "A teacher is never late; he arrives precisely when he means to."

  17. #17

    Default Re: how to shoot banquet?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeanie View Post
    3)my flash shows FP on.so, does that mean my shutter speed is 1/250?then how come my cam shows 1/60 at program mode?
    i'm really confused with flash sync speed and shutter speed on camera.please educate me.
    If you are using P mode, the shutter speed is set by the camera. In your case, there is probably not enough light for higher shutter speed. The camera has set it to lowest shutter speed of 1/60s. (Lowest shutter speed can be programmed via the menus.)

    If you have the FP mode on, that means you can use the flash with higher shutter speed. You can select shutter speed >1/250s in the S or M mode. In the A or P mode, if the lighting is sufficient, the camera can select shutter speed >1/250s.

    If the FP mode is off, the upper limit of shutter speed is 1/250s.

    Do take note that if you are shooting above the sync speed of 1/250s, you will not obtain the full flash value.

    I use FP mode only when I am using fill-in flash in bright environment or when I need high shutter speed to freeze motion. Other than that, I usually do not need shutter speed >1/250s.



    TTL BL should only be used when you are using flash fill-in. Otherwise, you might end up with under-exposed photos.
    Last edited by Scaglietti; 2nd October 2006 at 03:02 PM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: how to shoot banquet?

    scaglietti,

    ur post is extremely helpful to a newbie like me.TQ very much.
    i understand liao.

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    Default Re: how to shoot banquet?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeanie View Post
    as for ans to (3), if flash sync is 1/250, is it different from my camera's shutter speed of say...1/60?sorry, me newbie, i dont know the diff between flashsync speed and shutter speed.

    i've tried 1/30 with VR on(without flash), and i've gotten some clear shots.so i reckon my hands are ...'ok'.

    if i'm the official photographer, then i wont be posting in thie newbies folder.
    i shoot for fun.
    Since u have VR, it is not an issue. I too poor cannot afford VR.

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    Default Re: how to shoot banquet?

    Quote Originally Posted by blazer_workz View Post
    Aperture priority mode, ISO 400, flash with bounce card with tilt at 75-60 degree, stand further back for lower ceiling..if ceiling really too high(>5m) use direct or 45 degree tilt flash with diffuser..bounce oni if ceiling is white, if colored ceiling forget abt bounce, u will get a color cast..

    For me, no matter what colour the ceiling is, I rather bounce the light either with the deflector or whatsover. I would rather have the colour cast than using direct. Somehow, I prefer brighter background. Maybe my direct flash skills not there yet. But so far, no complaints from customers yet

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