Scanning Contrast TXP EI1250

chgoh · 25th September 2006

I find that the scans that I do with TXP shot at EI 1250 to be lacking contrast in the straight off scans, which I typically adjust for increased contrast in Photoshop. Wondering if any of you here have a similar experience with scanning of B&W negs. These are specifics of the shooting, development and scanning:

TXP (bulked rolled) shot at EI1250 with a K2/light-yellow filter.
Souped in Diafine 3.5 min in Soln A and 3.5 min in Soln B, followed by 3.5min fixer. For all steps, 10 inversions at the beginning and after every other minute. Washing with tap water for 10-15min and "mama lemon" wetting step in the 13th min.
Scanning done on a Minolta Scan Multi Pro using Vuescan. Color channels settings are default and file format is TIFF @ 16bits. All ICE features turned off (not that it matters).

The histogram of the scans, typically shows that the tails do not go all the way to the end of the chart. So what I do in Photoshop was to pull the left and right markers towards the center in Levels and then adjust the center marker to "taste".

Anyone have any ideas to improve scanning contrast? TIA

photobum · 26th September 2006

This is a TRADITIONAL darkroom thread, not digital scanning.

Regardless, did you calibrate your scanner to the tonal range of TXP film?

Please do ask me on how to calibrate a scanner, read the instructions that comes with your scanner. I only know how to calibrate mine.

chgoh · 26th September 2006

Opps.... did not see the Scanning/Printing sub forum initially, so thought this was the most appropriate forum, since I was doing the film development myself and felt that there might be some advice on the souping to increase contrast. Anyway, will try to close this thread and move it to the scanning forum. Apologies for the wrong posting.

Wisp · 26th September 2006

Originally Posted by chgoh

Opps.... did not see the Scanning/Printing sub forum initially, so thought this was the most appropriate forum, since I was doing the film development myself and felt that there might be some advice on the souping to increase contrast. Anyway, will try to close this thread and move it to the scanning forum. Apologies for the wrong posting.

If you push your film properly, that shouldn't be the case for properly 'pushed film'. In fact you should be having a drop off in shadow details, or if you try to compensate for shadow detail, a blow out in the highlights.

If you can't get any contrast out from your negs, it sounds pretty much you may have under dev your film. Pushing film often requires a longer time or more agitation than stated on the instruction sheet itself.

How thin are your negs?

chgoh · 26th September 2006

The negs don't look thin, tones are well distributed and controlled. Not sure if you are familiar with Diafine, but it gives TXP an automatic push to 1250 or 1600. The only thing is that when scanned the tonal range does not cover the whole scale.

Wisp · 27th September 2006

Originally Posted by chgoh

The negs don't look thin, tones are well distributed and controlled. Not sure if you are familiar with Diafine, but it gives TXP an automatic push to 1250 or 1600. The only thing is that when scanned the tonal range does not cover the whole scale.

Oh that explains it. 2 Bath. Yeah usually at proper density scanners often struggle abit to hold contrast.

chgoh · 27th September 2006

Originally Posted by Wisp

Oh that explains it. 2 Bath. Yeah usually at proper density scanners often struggle abit to hold contrast.

Hmmm.... so you mean that as developed in Diafine the lower contrast effect on scanning is inherent? Maybe I should try with HC110 with a normal rated EI of 400 or maybe 320?

Ansel · 27th September 2006

Originally Posted by Wisp

If you push your film properly, that shouldn't be the case for properly 'pushed film'. In fact you should be having a drop off in shadow details, or if you try to compensate for shadow detail, a blow out in the highlights.

If you can't get any contrast out from your negs, it sounds pretty much you may have under dev your film. Pushing film often requires a longer time or more agitation than stated on the instruction sheet itself.

How thin are your negs?

He was using diafine, so there is only a single development time for all film. It will not improve no longer how long you soup it.

chgoh, are you refering to the contrast on the negative per se, or particulary to contrast of the scanned image only? As far as I know, diafine always gives me slightly more contrast than I like *on the negative*. If you are saying that the neg looks fine, but the scan turns out lacking in contrast, then it is a diff story altogether. It is probably a scanner software setting issue.

Ansel · 27th September 2006

Originally Posted by chgoh

Hmmm.... so you mean that as developed in Diafine the lower contrast effect on scanning is inherent? Maybe I should try with HC110 with a normal rated EI of 400 or maybe 320?

From my scanning experience, lower contrast negs tend to give better scans than higher contrast negs. My complain about scanning is always too high contrast and never too low contrast.

chgoh · 27th September 2006

Originally Posted by Ansel

He was using diafine, so there is only a single development time for all film. It will not improve no longer how long you soup it.

chgoh, are you refering to the contrast on the negative per se, or particulary to contrast of the scanned image only? As far as I know, diafine always gives me slightly more contrast than I like *on the negative*. If you are saying that the neg looks fine, but the scan turns out lacking in contrast, then it is a diff story altogether. It is probably a scanner software setting issue.

Oh... I was referring to the contrast of the scanned image. The negs looks okay to me. Guess I have to look into Vuescan settings to get better contrast scans.

canturn · 29th September 2006

If you intend to scan your film, diafine may not be the most ideal developer to use as it tends to give me very blown out highlights from the straight scan (I'm using a Minolta 5400 Elite). On the other hand, diafine is an excellent developer to use if you intend to print in the darkroom.

Not sure if it works for you, but adjusting it from curves by bringing down the mid tone do help to make the print look a lot more pleasant. Not sure if you want to consider removing the yellow filter in front, because contrast is actually quite high already (I've tried red filter before for diafine negs, it's crazy).

From my experience, I find negs souped in HC-110 and T-max developer very scan friendly. Ilford DD-X too if you want to push your film to TXP to 1600, but damn expensive to use.

chgoh · 29th September 2006

Originally Posted by canturn

If you intend to scan your film, diafine may not be the most ideal developer to use as it tends to give me very blown out highlights from the straight scan (I'm using a Minolta 5400 Elite). On the other hand, diafine is an excellent developer to use if you intend to print in the darkroom.

Not sure if it works for you, but adjusting it from curves by bringing down the mid tone do help to make the print look a lot more pleasant. Not sure if you want to consider removing the yellow filter in front, because contrast is actually quite high already (I've tried red filter before for diafine negs, it's crazy).

From my experience, I find negs souped in HC-110 and T-max developer very scan friendly. Ilford DD-X too if you want to push your film to TXP to 1600, but damn expensive to use.

Hmmmm.... thanks for the tip on the yellow filter. I had never printed the negs before; all of the negs that I have souped in Diafine were scan using the MultiPro. I guess I would have to try the HC-110 or Tmax developer to see if gives me a better time scanning. Thanks!

Since this thread is getting somewhere, I will try to post some of the straight and addjusted (PS) scans + the associated histograms over the course of the next few days. Hopefully this can be useful for other users as well.

Ansel · 29th September 2006

Originally Posted by chgoh

Hmmmm.... thanks for the tip on the yellow filter. I had never printed the negs before; all of the negs that I have souped in Diafine were scan using the MultiPro. I guess I would have to try the HC-110 or Tmax developer to see if gives me a better time scanning. Thanks!

I recommend HC-110 because you can use it as a one-shot developer without mixing stock solution. The concentrate can last forever according some people, if properly stored. I saw 3 bottles displayed in Ruby last Wednesday, at ard $18+. Go grab one.

More info on HC-110 here. You'll love it:

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/profe.../j24/j24.jhtml
http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/
http://mysite.verizon.net/fowler/photo/hc110.htm

chgoh · 30th September 2006

Okay, here are the scans I promised:

Image from straight scan

Histogram of straight scan in PS

Adjustment made to levels in PS

Image after applying levels in PS

So I guess would try souping with HC-110 and see how it goes. Probably push it to 1250 with the necessary extension in development to ensure it is a fait comparison.

25th September 2006	#1
chgoh Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 668	Scanning Contrast TXP EI1250 I find that the scans that I do with TXP shot at EI 1250 to be lacking contrast in the straight off scans, which I typically adjust for increased contrast in Photoshop. Wondering if any of you here have a similar experience with scanning of B&W negs. These are specifics of the shooting, development and scanning: TXP (bulked rolled) shot at EI1250 with a K2/light-yellow filter. Souped in Diafine 3.5 min in Soln A and 3.5 min in Soln B, followed by 3.5min fixer. For all steps, 10 inversions at the beginning and after every other minute. Washing with tap water for 10-15min and "mama lemon" wetting step in the 13th min. Scanning done on a Minolta Scan Multi Pro using Vuescan. Color channels settings are default and file format is TIFF @ 16bits. All ICE features turned off (not that it matters). The histogram of the scans, typically shows that the tails do not go all the way to the end of the chart. So what I do in Photoshop was to pull the left and right markers towards the center in Levels and then adjust the center marker to "taste". Anyone have any ideas to improve scanning contrast? TIA Last edited by chgoh; 29th September 2006 at 02:37 PM.

26th September 2006	#2
photobum Deregistered Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,080	Re: Scanning Contrast TXP EI1250 This is a TRADITIONAL darkroom thread, not digital scanning. Regardless, did you calibrate your scanner to the tonal range of TXP film? Please do ask me on how to calibrate a scanner, read the instructions that comes with your scanner. I only know how to calibrate mine.

26th September 2006	#3
chgoh Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 668	Re: Scanning Contrast TXP EI1250 Opps.... did not see the Scanning/Printing sub forum initially, so thought this was the most appropriate forum, since I was doing the film development myself and felt that there might be some advice on the souping to increase contrast. Anyway, will try to close this thread and move it to the scanning forum. Apologies for the wrong posting.

26th September 2006	#5
chgoh Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 668	Re: Scanning Contrast TXP EI1250 The negs don't look thin, tones are well distributed and controlled. Not sure if you are familiar with Diafine, but it gives TXP an automatic push to 1250 or 1600. The only thing is that when scanned the tonal range does not cover the whole scale.

29th September 2006	#11
canturn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: East, SG Posts: 2,706	Re: Scanning Contrast TXP EI1250 If you intend to scan your film, diafine may not be the most ideal developer to use as it tends to give me very blown out highlights from the straight scan (I'm using a Minolta 5400 Elite). On the other hand, diafine is an excellent developer to use if you intend to print in the darkroom. Not sure if it works for you, but adjusting it from curves by bringing down the mid tone do help to make the print look a lot more pleasant. Not sure if you want to consider removing the yellow filter in front, because contrast is actually quite high already (I've tried red filter before for diafine negs, it's crazy). From my experience, I find negs souped in HC-110 and T-max developer very scan friendly. Ilford DD-X too if you want to push your film to TXP to 1600, but damn expensive to use. __________________ website: Lyrical Moments Photography Facebook page here

30th September 2006	#14
chgoh Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 668	Re: Scanning Contrast TXP EI1250 Okay, here are the scans I promised: Image from straight scan Histogram of straight scan in PS Adjustment made to levels in PS Image after applying levels in PS So I guess would try souping with HC-110 and see how it goes. Probably push it to 1250 with the necessary extension in development to ensure it is a fait comparison.