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Thread: Dear Wisp and Reliance: The Word "Creampie"

  1. #61
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    Default Re: Dear Wisp and Reliance: The Word "Creampie"

    Quote Originally Posted by fattyboonboon
    *yadda-yadda-yadda*
    You brought a gun to a fist-fight, and you are calling me foul when i pull out mine?
    If he did brought a gun to a fist-fight, I guess he would have used it before u pulled out urs.
    "Wonders of the Human Mind. Unfathomable to the highest degree."

  2. #62
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    Default Re: Dear Wisp and Reliance: The Word "Creampie"

    what's all these about? fattyboonboon, let's rewind abit and look at what happened ...

    below quoted from the thread in question ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp
    Sorry to say..but do you know what creampie actually means!?

    *note: Look under porn terminology*
    Quote Originally Posted by fattyboonboon
    Sorry to say.... but i do not know what creampie actually means. Infact, the word does not exist in dictionary.com. Here, let me point you in that direction:

    http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=creampie

    Apparently, Merriam-Webster does not know what it means either:

    http://www.webster.com/dictionary/creampie

    So besides making a mistake in choosing a word that does not exist, i do not see any other problems.

    *note: And yes, because we use terminologies in the porn industry as the standard for proper english.*

    Sorry to OT, but please apply a little common sense people. Clubsnap is a respectable forum with intelligent people, not a bunch of monkeys, so i am sure we all know that is not what the OP is getting at when he used the word "creampie".
    fattyboonboon, seriously, there's nothing wrong with Wisp's post. he was giving a warning to the TS* of the thread in question. in fact DP was the first to point out the potential problem of the usage of that word:



    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet
    10 photog? How to shoot?

    by the way, why use creampie as an adjective? found it degrading!
    from what i see, you created the entire problem yourself by suggesting that Wisp and those who agree with him as lacking common sense.



    Quote Originally Posted by fattyboonboon
    Sorry to OT, but please apply a little common sense people. Clubsnap is a respectable forum with intelligent people, not a bunch of monkeys, so i am sure we all know that is not what the OP is getting at when he used the word "creampie".

    lastly, what do you exactly mean by OT and OP?


    TS* - TS refers to Thread Starter, as acknowledged by a couple of CS** members and probably other forums on the internet.

    CS** - CS refers to 'Clubsnap', as acknowledged by members of the internet forum 'Clubsnap.'
    Last edited by eikin; 21st September 2006 at 06:13 PM.

  3. #63
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Dear Wisp and Reliance: The Word "Creampie"

    FBB:

    Two comments,

    So with this long post, do you admit that your initial argument about the meaning of creampie is now invalid? And now you're only fighting vigilante behaviour? Please confirm so that we can focus the discussion.

    Second, I would be grateful if you could point out where there were "Demands" that the title be removed. From what I see, they were just saying it is inappropriate.

  4. #64
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    Default Re: Dear Wisp and Reliance: The Word "Creampie"

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn
    How abt runways, bumps, raisins, seaweed, oyster sauce, camel and toes den?
    you forgot peanuts..

    camels, toes and toads came to mind again:

    http://www.snopes.com/risque/tattled/cameltoad.asp

    lol
    *D700,D2X,D2H,Mamiya*

  5. #65

    Default Re: Dear Wisp and Reliance: The Word "Creampie"

    Quote Originally Posted by student
    I know that there will be unlikely to be agreement. But since you wrote that you advocate freedom, and do like to carry on a discussion on a logical and intelligent basis, against my better judgement, I will pen my thoughts on this.

    You wrote that you were brought up on proper English. To be fair, anyone with a reasonable "education" in proper schools will have some grounding in "proper English". Standards might differ, and mine is particularly atrocious, although I did win a literature prize quoting MacBeth while I was in my kampong school. Not that my English was good, but the standards then was really bad!

    You assert that the word "creampie" does not exist. And you quoted several references to support your assertion.

    I did not check your references, but will accept what you found to be true and accurate - that the word creampie does not exist in these references.

    However.... please see my reply to your next quote



    Here you wrote that the word "creampie" was coined by the sex industry - with certain purposes in mind - to sell sex products. Money of course! And you concluded that the word does not exist, either in the formal language or in what you termed as "artificial" meaning - because the word was only coined by the sex industry - not by acceptable language authorities which you can recognise, respect, and acknowledge.

    Here I will state my position on the existence of the word "creampie".

    #1 Based on your findings, the word does not exist in the formal languages.

    #2 But it does exist in another level of language usage - which formal English tries to ignore. But formal language cannot ignore it, because the word has taken on a life of its own, through channels which certain segments of society try to ostracise..

    The fact is, this discussion will not have surfaced if a certain photoshoot organiser did not use it in the first place, which generated much discussions. Where did he get the word from? Where did he first hear it? I submit that the source might not be pornsites or magazines.

    The fact is, that the word is used widely in the sex industry. Lots of people use it! An ENTIRE industry (a HUGE one at that!) uses it.

    The fact is, you yourself acknowledged that it exists in the sex industry - that this was coined by the sex industry. If a coin was coined, does it not exist?

    Therefore, the word "creampie" does exist - not in formal references, but in usage, and the meaning of this word is understood - albeit with rather derogatory connotations.

    The fact that the word "creampie" does not exist in formal languages means just that. Nothing more. Nothing less. It does not exist in formal languages.

    This does not mean it does not exist in usage - artificial or not.

    Whether it exists in formal language or not is irrelevant. For the time being, the formal references do not have this word and they reject this word.. But the English language has a wonderful history of incorporating "new words" when they could finally not ignore their existence. This is one of the reasons why the English dictionary is expanding all the time - thanks to Dr Samuel Johnson.
    Dear Dr.C! I hope you dont mind me addressing you like that. We met briefly before at Shaila's shoot. You were very kind to show me your medium format camera then, and at that time, i am still very new to photography and dont even know what medium format looks like! (I am still pretty new, sadly! ) How you doing? Hope all is well!

    Anyway, i welcome you to the debate.

    Haha, like i stated earlier here http://forums.clubsnap.org/showpost....7&postcount=58
    my english too definitely belong in the atrocious category. Dont think quoting MacBeth is going to save me from this ditch!

    In fact, i agree with most things that you say. And it seems like you have a very similar stand as me. So i am not sure whether we are chasing each other's tails.

    I definitely did not deny that the word does exist in the sex industry, and i dont think anywhere in the article i stated that. However, i am not in the sex industry. And if Clubsnap runs by sex industry standard, i can tell you right now, i am definitely in the wrong.

    The only differing perspective i have with you is: just because alot of people uses a "word", does not automatically make it universal. This is tricky, because while utilitarianism can be useful, it is not always correct. It merely just reflects the thinking of the masses. The most common question that can be raised is, where exactly do we draw the line? When half the population +1 uses some random word they coined, it makes it a word that everyone must know? And that the remaining population are totally discounted and are considered "ignorant"?

    Just because a selected group of people in some nation comes up with a conspiracy theory about weapon of mass destruction does not justify them marching into a country and rolling them over.

    If the word does exist in usage like you claimed, please consider there is a faction of people who may not know/subscribe to the same thinking. Are they to be discounted? Must they bend to submit to the ideas of this group of people when nothing in black and white is written, where ambiguity is bound to arise!

    You wrote:
    But formal language cannot ignore it, because the word has taken on a life of its own, through channels which certain segments of society try to ostracise..
    So now we go from ostracising that certain segments of society to ostracising the segment of society that subscibes to formal language. Hardly fair.

    I can come up with a unique unit called Xiega, which is = 3.456 metre, particularly useful for whatever research(hypothetical of course) i am dabbling since i work with multiples of 3.456. It is totally valid because i have defined what it is. Does it mean Xiega as a unit exists? To me it does. To you? Probably not. As we amass people on both sides to fight our cause, and i manage to get half the world population +1 on my side, does it mean Xiega automatically exists then?

    S.I. units exist for a reason, so does the dictionary. Whatever else we have created, we should keep them to ourselves, and definitely, not impose on others.

    That is very true. Whatever standard we have created are constantly being re-evaluated, and that is a good thing. Until "creampie" is accepted, i stand by my view.

    Just friendly exchanges with you, you are more than welcome to prove me wrong. In the meantime, take care and hope to see you soon.

    Edit: I dont understand why your quote dont show up. It is like big patch of whiteness there. Hahaha, anyway, only noticed your quote when i reread your post! Hahaha, i have a good laugh at the way you play out my name. Very innovative. Fattyboobboob, WHY didnt i think of that? I was giggling like a school girl when i saw that. Very very clever. Fatty boobs! But i seriously doubt the admin or mods will allow me to keep a name like that.
    Last edited by fattyboonboon; 21st September 2006 at 09:34 PM.

  6. #66

    Default Re: Dear Wisp and Reliance: The Word "Creampie"

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn
    How abt runways, bumps, raisins, seaweed, oyster sauce, camel and toes den?
    I think this thread needs abit of milk to liven it up



    guys, chill out

    otherwise you're gonna force me to do a picture about creampies
    Last edited by mattlock; 21st September 2006 at 09:04 PM.

  7. #67

    Default Re: Dear Wisp and Reliance: The Word "Creampie"

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123
    Just a short thought - just because a word cannot be found in the dictionary does not mean that it doesn't exist or that it cannot be understood by the relevant public. There are numerous words out there that are not found in the dictionary but which can be understood by the relevant public due to its use in the industry, or in general.

    It is therefore a flaw to base your arguments on the fact that it is not an ordinary dictionary word .
    Pardon me for bolding some of your argument. I just want to point out that those arguments are flawed in their own way too.

    First of all, the keyword is relevant. And that means? The general public? Or public in that specific industry?

    If it is public in the specific industry, oh man, you better know your stuff! You got to do your homework when you are in that field!

    But if you are referring to the general public, which means everyone else, the autie serving you coffee in the cafe to the boy serving you your happy meal in Mc Donalds, then you argument is flawed too, the same way as you insisted that mine is.

    Just because certain word is created by a specific industry, does not justify the assumption that everyone else must know that word exists. What happen to those that do not? They must automatically be ignorant then?

    In fact, when you said:
    There are numerous words out there that are not found in the dictionary but which can be understood by the relevant public due to its use in the industry, or in general.

    The way you used "in general" is in fact a very big assumption contributed on your part. I work in the scientific industry and there are many big words, which can actually be found in the dictionary, that i do not even use in real life. Why? Because i dont automatically assume everyone knows what i am talking about. If i am ever forced to use it, at least in my heart i know the general public has a dictionary to fall back on.

    It is therefore a flaw to base your arguments on the fact that because a word exists in certain industry, we must all keep ourselves to date with it even when they have no real purpose in real life, and those that cannot keep up, are discarded and branded as ignorant.

  8. #68

    Default Re: Dear Wisp and Reliance: The Word "Creampie"

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123
    This argument is also flawed - words must be read in the context it is made.

    IF someone says "I am going to the grocery store to buy sugar to make a cake" you won't think he is using the word sugar to mean LSD.

    However, if he says "I'm going to the downtown back alleys to get me some weed to get high" - do you think he is going to get some unwanted grass and plants?

    In this context, a beautiful model was portrayed - on a balance of probabilities, do you think it is going to be read as as a confectionery item filled with cream that you eat as a snack, or the meaning which others have attributed to it.
    Very good point. So since the thread was posted in the context of Clubsnap, which i checked this morning, is a Photography forum. Contexual meaning? Like none? I am a newbie in photography, is there a meaning for creampie in the photography context? I am still struggling with the fact that a big value of F means a smaller aperture!

  9. #69

    Default Re: Dear Wisp and Reliance: The Word "Creampie"

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock
    I think this thread needs abit of milk to liven it up



    guys, chill out

    otherwise you're gonna force me to do a picture about creampies
    Thanks mattlock. Always admire your work, in fact, i regretted not going for your exhibition.

    I think everyone is very chill out here, so dont worry about it. It is a friendly debate right everyone? So dont get so worked up!

    Alamak, i stopped at #27, not even half yet. Need to time off guys, got some work i need to do. So, i will continue tomorrow. See you guys tomorrow! Go easy on me in the meantime coz if it hits 8 pages, that means i am only 1/4 way through!

    Thanks to those who agree with me, and those who dont. Please keep ideas free-flowing. It is bad to keep a box around ideas, it is worse to then put that box on others.

  10. #70
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    Default Re: Dear Wisp and Reliance: The Word "Creampie"

    Quote Originally Posted by fattyboonboon
    However, it seems to be starting like wildfire, with people jumping in to condemn and demand that the title be removed, as if they are desperate to find someone to be crucified on the cross. People behaving like vigilantes, fixated on their cause, trying to strong-arm people into submitting to what they think is right.

    If you can be a vigilante, so can i.

    If you can come out valiantly and insist that others are wrong and demand that they must change to suit you, so can i. I will come out to challenge your belief which you hold so dear, repaying the same "kindness" you have bestowed on others by demanding that you change to suit me!

    In fact, I am You.

    Where am i coming from you say? I will tell you honestly, i dont give a rat's ass what you think "Creampie" means. It is the mob mentality here that disgusts me, with big bullies with big post count lynching new junior members, behaviors you see displayed by 15 yr old on gaming forums.

    You brought a gun to a fist-fight, and you are calling me foul when i pull out mine?
    Good grief! You write 1,000 word posts and then hide behind your low post count and paint yourself a victim getting lynched? Puhleez!

    The fact is, your continued presence in this debate shows that you already attach that same meaning to "c......." that you so vehemently deny. Don't think so? Try this....

    Hypothetically, say a few years from now, your daughter, in her early teens, in all her innocence comes to you and says "Hey, I received an e-mail from c....... girls website asking me to sign up as a model, what do you think?"

    What is your reaction? If you reject the use of the word as it is applied in the porn industry, then you would be all nonchalance, yes? "Oh, go ahead honey, must be trying to teach you to bake some pastries." would be your reply, would it not?

    Unfortunately, your more likely response would be- "Get the h... out of there! I'm banning you from the internet for the rest of your life!". I.e., like it or not, you have already been made aware of the negative connotations of the word and by proxy, accept that it has that meaning. How could you not have? You already know what its intended use is and the next time the 'c' word is used you know exactly what people are talking about. You see the conundrum?

    Look, I know how you feel. Nobody here is trying to strong arm you into accepting anything. Most people would accept that the word had been used in innocence and let it pass. Unfortunately, its your absurd position of "It can't be because I say it isn't so." that is fanning the fire in this thread.
    Last edited by dkw; 21st September 2006 at 09:32 PM.

  11. #71

    Default Re: Dear Wisp and Reliance: The Word "Creampie"

    Quote Originally Posted by fattyboonboon
    Very good point. So since the thread was posted in the context of Clubsnap, which i checked this morning, is a Photography forum. Contexual meaning? Like none? I am a newbie in photography, is there a meaning for creampie in the photography context?
    Dude, the word creampie was (presumably) used figuratively to describe the model. That's the context. The model happens to be a female at that. Someone point out another figurative meaning that's demeaning. Why are you fighting so hard to defend the innocence of the word? The negative connotation of the word exists, regardless of what you say. To some people, it's innocent. To some people, it's demeaning. That's reality. If you care enough about the model's image and the image of the shoot, then consider the feelings of those who found it demeaning. If you don't care for the image of the model and the shoot in these people's (who know the 'other' meaning for creampie) eyes, then just ignore them.

    Btw, it is not my fault that I know the derogatory meaning for creampie, and and that I was immediately offended by the thread title. But wat the heck, offence isn't intended, so there's no offence?

  12. #72
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    Default Re: Dear Wisp and Reliance: The Word "Creampie"

    Quote Originally Posted by fattyboonboon
    To know whether you are on my side or somewhere else, do this checklist:

    1) Have you even been forced to do something against your will because people enforced it upon you, while declaring only they can be right? If Yes, do you like that feeling? Why?

    2) If the other thread title still holds and it still says "Brazilian Creampie Anyone?" now, are you

    (a) one of those who will jump on and post a message to demand that the OP takes it down, insisting that creampie is exactly what you think it is?

    (b) receptive, and that the OP has made an honest mistake. Since a gentleman has already pointed it out to the OP, we shall move on.
    My answers:
    1) Yeah my mom loves to do that to me. But can I say no to her?
    2) Where`s option C? There is no mistake in the title, it is totally acceptable and there is only a group of people making a mountain out of a freaking "creampie".

    Jeez what is the commotion over a freaking word? It can refer to ladies decently, some use it on their GFs(seen/heard while in college), internet porn sites and RA jokes on the web. So which version are you going to use is up to you.

  13. #73
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    Default Re: Dear Wisp and Reliance: The Word "Creampie"

    I didn't know about that thread until eiks pointed it out to me. Ignorance is, or was rather, bliss, as they say.

    *Chuckle* As to fattyboonboon, I'm terribly amused by what you said. Yes I have a dirty mind, and yes I'm partial to the opposite sex.

    Yes I'm vulgar, to the point. And yes I 'm pretty blunt so a point when I look back I felt I went too far (the deadpoet saga is one of those).

    And yes, I did think you were abit of a congenital half wit. However after this thread you changed my mind! You convinced me you're a fully fledged one at that!

    Alright, I'd be more realistic. You're not a congenital halfwit. I simply think you have a big ego that you see a need to patch up.

    However I believe idiots won't become idiots for long. Some of them even became smarter than me =/. So I'm willing to take my words back if you decide to go along that path.

    I simply couldn't believe it when I saw this..in fact I'm not gonna refute you at all. If ya believe you're right and have a need for a public debate (though it's more like washing dirty linen) go right ahead! I don't have the stellar results in my O level english, I'm from a polytechnic and plus I'm an engineering university student! I simply couldn't argue with you (or qualified) to argue with you in any sort of way since my 'formal' english vocabulary isn't that extrapolative enough!


    I was just simply trying to point out that people may view the word in another manner and warn the thread starter as so.

    And hey doc, how many admirers have you been garnering lately!?!? *Ponders whether purchase a bunch of books for you to autograph for CS-ers when he comes back in July next year*

  14. #74
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    Default Re: Dear Wisp and Reliance: The Word "Creampie"

    Quote Originally Posted by fattyboonboon
    Edit: I dont understand why your quote dont show up. It is like big patch of whiteness there. Hahaha, anyway, only noticed your quote when i reread your post! Hahaha, i have a good laugh at the way you play out my name. Very innovative. Fattyboobboob, WHY didnt i think of that? I was giggling like a school girl when i saw that. Very very clever. Fatty boobs! But i seriously doubt the admin or mods will allow me to keep a name like that.
    (I can't resist this, but this sounds so much like over the top deliberate ingraiting. )

    Hey, Doc isn't Chairman Mao..he doesn't need that much flattery (or at all in fact). Just show you're willing to learn on your own and excel, and he'd gladly help you out.

  15. #75

    Default Re: Dear Wisp and Reliance: The Word "Creampie"

    can we all make out and get on with life? if u don't like what u see, just walk away. better still unplug the power supply to your pc.

  16. #76
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Dear Wisp and Reliance: The Word "Creampie"

    First, you have subtly changed your ground from the word not being in existence, to whether there are sufficient people who know about it in order for it to be understood.

    Second, by your stand, if 100% of people don't know a particular word, no one can use that word.

    See anything wrong there?

    Quote Originally Posted by fattyboonboon
    Pardon me for bolding some of your argument. I just want to point out that those arguments are flawed in their own way too.

    First of all, the keyword is relevant. And that means? The general public? Or public in that specific industry?

    If it is public in the specific industry, oh man, you better know your stuff! You got to do your homework when you are in that field!

    But if you are referring to the general public, which means everyone else, the autie serving you coffee in the cafe to the boy serving you your happy meal in Mc Donalds, then you argument is flawed too, the same way as you insisted that mine is.

    Just because certain word is created by a specific industry, does not justify the assumption that everyone else must know that word exists. What happen to those that do not? They must automatically be ignorant then?

    In fact, when you said:
    There are numerous words out there that are not found in the dictionary but which can be understood by the relevant public due to its use in the industry, or in general.

    The way you used "in general" is in fact a very big assumption contributed on your part. I work in the scientific industry and there are many big words, which can actually be found in the dictionary, that i do not even use in real life. Why? Because i dont automatically assume everyone knows what i am talking about. If i am ever forced to use it, at least in my heart i know the general public has a dictionary to fall back on.

    It is therefore a flaw to base your arguments on the fact that because a word exists in certain industry, we must all keep ourselves to date with it even when they have no real purpose in real life, and those that cannot keep up, are discarded and branded as ignorant.

  17. #77

    Default Re: Dear Wisp and Reliance: The Word "Creampie"

    Funny thread to liven up my boring day.

    .

  18. #78
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    Default Re: Dear Wisp and Reliance: The Word "Creampie"

    from no headache become got headache liao..
    sigh.

  19. #79
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    Default Re: Dear Wisp and Reliance: The Word "Creampie"

    Quote Originally Posted by AReality
    Funny thread to liven up my boring day.

    .
    I'm glad it liven up your day! It really made mine too. I just managed to get in the house after locking myself out for 3 hours in 20C on the top of my house, so I was pretty grouchy till I saw this thread.

    (P.S: I knew it was a stupid idea to climb up the pipe just to check whether the balcony door is open..)

  20. #80
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    Default Re: Dear Wisp and Reliance: The Word "Creampie"

    Quote Originally Posted by pokiemon
    can we all make out and get on with life? if u don't like what u see, just walk away. better still unplug the power supply to your pc.
    uhh...HUH!?!?!??! *major sweat drop*

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