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Thread: BBC: Singapore 'breaks protest deal'

  1. #21

    Default Re: BBC: Singapore 'breaks protest deal'

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwitan
    It put me to shame to be a Singaporean.
    You should be proud that in the post 9-11 world. Only Sg can have most assurance in the protection of the foreign delegates.

    And it the only country that can offer fresh flowers and 4 million smiles together with barb wire fencing.
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  2. #22

    Default Re: BBC: Singapore 'breaks protest deal'

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwitan
    Thursday i took a bus down to Suntec intending to walk across the bridge connecting the conventional centre to Marina Sq. Bus was diverted to drop outside Millenia Walk.

    While walking towards Suntec from within Marina Sq shopping centre, overheard 3 Cacausians IMF delegated commenting on how artificial Singapore is : the planting of flowers, the 4 million smile campaign all contrasting with the total ban on protests, barbed wires surrounding the convention centre and armed police and Gurkhas patrolling every where.

    It put me to shame to be a Singaporean.
    REALLY SHAMEFUL SIA!

  3. #23

    Default Re: BBC: Singapore 'breaks protest deal'

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwitan
    Thursday i took a bus down to Suntec intending to walk across the bridge connecting the conventional centre to Marina Sq. Bus was diverted to drop outside Millenia Walk.

    While walking towards Suntec from within Marina Sq shopping centre, overheard 3 Cacausians IMF delegated commenting on how artificial Singapore is : the planting of flowers, the 4 million smile campaign all contrasting with the total ban on protests, barbed wires surrounding the convention centre and armed police and Gurkhas patrolling every where.

    It put me to shame to be a Singaporean.
    Maybe it would be better they go Iraq to host the meeting. Less artificial! Free AIR all around.

  4. #24

    Default Re: BBC: Singapore 'breaks protest deal'

    Quote Originally Posted by centuryegg
    Let the big boys talk business and stop wasting time on stupid protesters that have nothing better to do. Deport, Arrest, I support that 100 percent!! I already have tons of foreigners here to wreck our homes, take away our jobs, I dont want them to come tear down trees and mess up the place with their clashes with police.
    Stupid protestors eh? I bet u wear white shirts and pants and underwear day in day out. Ever considered running for election? I'm sure *** would love to have another puppet on their side.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: BBC: Singapore 'breaks protest deal'

    Quote Originally Posted by centuryegg
    Let the big boys talk business and stop wasting time on stupid protesters that have nothing better to do. Deport, Arrest, I support that 100 percent!! I already have tons of foreigners here to wreck our homes, take away our jobs, I dont want them to come tear down trees and mess up the place with their clashes with police.
    I think what IMF/WB want is to have an alternate view on how to improve. Not all protesters are there to cause trouble, some are just the same normal people with a different opinion but still the same common goal.

    You seem xenophobic and I'm not sure if you are aware of the fact that most, if not all, delegates are foreigners as well.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: BBC: Singapore 'breaks protest deal'

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN
    You should be proud that in the post 9-11 world. Only Sg can have most assurance in the protection of the foreign delegates.
    Other countries are doing equally well if not better during post 9-11

    Japan, Taiwan and etc. ST give a rosy pic abt spore all the time
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  7. #27

    Default Re: BBC: Singapore 'breaks protest deal'

    Quote Originally Posted by centuryegg
    its just wayang... IMF and World Bank wants to show that it is encouraging "Freedom of Speech" but frankly do they really work on the comments? Singapore was chosen for a reason and they defintely knew this will be the result. Not surprised the big wigs are saying "finally a meeting without those pesky protestors that try to storm the building and fight with police!" And this year's IMF was a record attendance compared to previous years.

    Let the big boys talk business and stop wasting time on stupid protesters that have nothing better to do. Deport, Arrest, I support that 100 percent!! I already have tons of foreigners here to wreck our homes, take away our jobs, I dont want them to come tear down trees and mess up the place with their clashes with police.
    I agree with your view, IMF and World Bank's big shot have to make some noice to make like they care...........this is probably one meeting that they can sleep peacefully at night

  8. #28
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    Default Re: BBC: Singapore 'breaks protest deal'

    dunno.. should we just say IMF is wrong ? but again what should they do then? applaud Singapore for barring protestants openly ah ? obviously have to wayang abit lor.. hahaha.. i agree with century egg on this score.

    as for the caucasians who said singapore are superficial.. let them sing song play guitar lor. who cares... as if they gonna apply PR or work here meh... let them roll back after the meeting lor..

    seriously, what shall Singapore do then?
    those 'big boys' are really hard to please... aye..
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  9. #29
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    Default Re: BBC: Singapore 'breaks protest deal'

    Just my 2 cents worth. Please feel free to disagree.

    I have the fortune (or misfortunate??) to personally witness 4 separate demostrations involving hundreds and thousands of people and riot police. Believe me - it is not something you want to be caught in. Massive destruction to properties, unnecessary physical and psychological injuries to people, etc. Should a demostration happen, it will certaintly not be confined to the IMF premises, spillage to other places (HDB estates, Orchard Rd, ??) will most certainly happen. How would you feel if the demostration happen at your very doorstep, with your family members and properties at risk? Not a very comfortable thought, I am sure.

    For a small state-city like Singapore, 1 "ruptured" demostration will affect everybody. There is no two way about it. I, for one, prefer the "harsh" manner our men in blue contain the IMF fresco. What other foreigners feel? Well, that is their problem.

    BTW - the demostrations I have witnessed were in Indonesia (some housing issues), Chicago (some racist issues), Cardiff (some rugby games) and Taiwan (some political issues). My job requires me to travel to various parts of the World and hence the opportunity.

    Just my opinion. Thx for reading. Have a blessed day.
    Cheers

  10. #30

    Default Re: BBC: Singapore 'breaks protest deal'

    it probably could have been better handled. but to be fair, it is just the spore government showing consistency. after all, if not more tha 4 of us can get together for a demonstration without permission.... they cannot be seen to give broad leeway to foreigners to come here and wreak havoc.

    the IMF well knew that if they had the meetings here, it would probably be the least disruptive meetings in the entire history of the IMF... even in other moderate places, like korea japan etc, you will definitely get waaay more protests.

    no doubt, some of the "protests" by the IMF is beng offered as a sweetener to the international press... so that they wont be seen as being wholly hand in hand with how things have been organised here. but as others have said, im sure, deep inside, the majority of delegates will be qutie happy to conduct their meetings in peace and quiet.

  11. #31

    Default Re: BBC: Singapore 'breaks protest deal'

    For those who say that I am xenophobic, no I am not, I do know that the delegates are foreigners, but they are rich and paying ones. I certaintely dont want some farmer from Korea that has lost his farm or some Indonesian worker to come in masses and start throwing anything they can get their hands on at the police in clashes.

    This are facts, they have happened and have happened at every IMF meeting. Last IMF meeting in HK, the farmers tried to storm the IMF meeting venue ala commando style. Sea and land assault. You had hundreds of weapon wielding korean farmers clashing with hundreds of HK riot police and some korean farmers trying to swim across the bay to the IMF venue.

    Please tell me when you see that, and when the whole CBD goes into lock down by police for security reasons to arrest all protestors and when you are late for your date, appointment, cannot go to sale at cathay photo because it is under curfew zone. Then you come and talk to me again to see if you want protests.

    Dont be bloody naive, protests dont mean walk around with a board and shouting slogans. Protests are about buring effgies, wrecking public property and clashing with the police. Do not forget the protesters are not local, they wont give a hoot if they burn down Suntec or wreck every dustbin, tree, car they see. Its not their country anyway... at most they get arrrested and deported. but we clean up their mess..

  12. #32
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    Default Re: BBC: Singapore 'breaks protest deal'

    over kiasu syndrome hits again. When will we ever learn. Looks more like a prison camp for the delegates.
    I lup SG, but SG don't love me...

  13. #33

    Smile Re: BBC: Singapore 'breaks protest deal'

    camp guantanamo in s'pore?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sjourn
    over kiasu syndrome hits again. When will we ever learn. Looks more like a prison camp for the delegates.

  14. #34
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    Default Re: BBC: Singapore 'breaks protest deal'

    Quote Originally Posted by centuryegg
    For those who say that I am xenophobic, no I am not, I do know that the delegates are foreigners, but they are rich and paying ones. I certaintely dont want some farmer from Korea that has lost his farm or some Indonesian worker to come in masses and start throwing anything they can get their hands on at the police in clashes.

    This are facts, they have happened and have happened at every IMF meeting. Last IMF meeting in HK, the farmers tried to storm the IMF meeting venue ala commando style. Sea and land assault. You had hundreds of weapon wielding korean farmers clashing with hundreds of HK riot police and some korean farmers trying to swim across the bay to the IMF venue.

    Please tell me when you see that, and when the whole CBD goes into lock down by police for security reasons to arrest all protestors and when you are late for your date, appointment, cannot go to sale at cathay photo because it is under curfew zone. Then you come and talk to me again to see if you want protests.

    Dont be bloody naive, protests dont mean walk around with a board and shouting slogans. Protests are about buring effgies, wrecking public property and clashing with the police. Do not forget the protesters are not local, they wont give a hoot if they burn down Suntec or wreck every dustbin, tree, car they see. Its not their country anyway... at most they get arrrested and deported. but we clean up their mess..
    I think you are again exaggerating facts. The reason I used the word xenophobic is based on your sweeping use of the word "foreigner". And again in here you use a sweeping statement that anyone who "protest" are bound to cause violence. And worst, you are now refering to "them" against "us". All in all, I can sense a deep fear in what you are implying. If its not xenophobia, its still some sort of phobia.

    I still can't see how 28 WB-accredited individuals who has already been vouched by their respective governments (note that they can't be considered group at this point) can cause the examples that you have given. Of course I agree that your scenarios, however extreme, should be avoided at all cost. But this is akin to banning people from smoking but not the selling of cigarettes. Anyway, I'm not being naive. I'm just representing what I believe in without harming any innocent dustbins. If you believe in being overcautious, and I believe otherwise, I guess at the end of the day, its just a difference in opinion with the same goal of having a successful IMF event.

  15. #35

    Default Re: BBC: Singapore 'breaks protest deal'

    Quote Originally Posted by centuryegg
    For those who say that I am xenophobic, no I am not, I do know that the delegates are foreigners, but they are rich and paying ones. I certaintely dont want some farmer from Korea that has lost his farm or some Indonesian worker to come in masses and start throwing anything they can get their hands on at the police in clashes.

    This are facts, they have happened and have happened at every IMF meeting. Last IMF meeting in HK, the farmers tried to storm the IMF meeting venue ala commando style. Sea and land assault. You had hundreds of weapon wielding korean farmers clashing with hundreds of HK riot police and some korean farmers trying to swim across the bay to the IMF venue.

    Please tell me when you see that, and when the whole CBD goes into lock down by police for security reasons to arrest all protestors and when you are late for your date, appointment, cannot go to sale at cathay photo because it is under curfew zone. Then you come and talk to me again to see if you want protests.

    Dont be bloody naive, protests dont mean walk around with a board and shouting slogans. Protests are about buring effgies, wrecking public property and clashing with the police. Do not forget the protesters are not local, they wont give a hoot if they burn down Suntec or wreck every dustbin, tree, car they see. Its not their country anyway... at most they get arrrested and deported. but we clean up their mess..
    agrees with you, i dun need the crap at my doorstep.

  16. #36

    Default Re: BBC: Singapore 'breaks protest deal'

    Quote Originally Posted by dawgbyte77
    I think you are again exaggerating facts. The reason I used the word xenophobic is based on your sweeping use of the word "foreigner". And again in here you use a sweeping statement that anyone who "protest" are bound to cause violence. And worst, you are now refering to "them" against "us". All in all, I can sense a deep fear in what you are implying. If its not xenophobia, its still some sort of phobia.
    First of all, I must say tt I totally agree w the govt stance to be uptight abt security ... I dun think centuryegg meant to say tt all foreigners are violent protesters or all protesters are violent. However, we cannot dismiss the fact that the protesters are mostly foreigners and some tend towards violence (historically proven). I dun fear the protests but I dun think that we need some violent protesters waving pipes and throwing firebombs ... the people I care abt may be there and may be hurt by these. If the protesters are peaceful and civil (no pun intended), I guess the Govt is more than happy to welcome them. If you are a shop owner ard the area of a taxi driver driving pass or office worker in Suntec, would u drive pass that area and park there? Without control, most likely there would be violent demonstrations ...



    Quote Originally Posted by dawgbyte77
    I still can't see how 28 WB-accredited individuals who has already been vouched by their respective governments (note that they can't be considered group at this point) can cause the examples that you have given. Of course I agree that your scenarios, however extreme, should be avoided at all cost. But this is akin to banning people from smoking but not the selling of cigarettes. Anyway, I'm not being naive. I'm just representing what I believe in without harming any innocent dustbins. If you believe in being overcautious, and I believe otherwise, I guess at the end of the day, its just a difference in opinion with the same goal of having a successful IMF event.

    We do not know how WB accredit those individuals, do they personally know them? Vouched by their own govt? Think that the words used were "cleared" by their govt ... How does their govt clear them and does it comes with explicit understanding that these individuals do not go on a violent protest run while in Singapore? Rem Michael Fay? Spraying paint in States is considered ur "freedom of expression".

    I dun think that in all the demonstrations, everyone start off intending to be violent ... violent ringleaders start the process and lead the way, show the example and stir up anger and resentment until the people standing ard capture the same anger and injustice ... in that moment, someone start becoming violent and the spark starts the fire ...

    I think it is naive to compare violent protests to smoking ... how abt allowing serial rapists be alone with your loved ones ... u naturally dun want to take that chance, however remote ...

  17. #37
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    Default Re: BBC: Singapore 'breaks protest deal'

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda
    Just my 2 cents worth. Please feel free to disagree.

    I have the fortune (or misfortunate??) to personally witness 4 separate demostrations involving hundreds and thousands of people and riot police. Believe me - it is not something you want to be caught in. Massive destruction to properties, unnecessary physical and psychological injuries to people, etc. Should a demostration happen, it will certaintly not be confined to the IMF premises, spillage to other places (HDB estates, Orchard Rd, ??) will most certainly happen. How would you feel if the demostration happen at your very doorstep, with your family members and properties at risk? Not a very comfortable thought, I am sure.

    For a small state-city like Singapore, 1 "ruptured" demostration will affect everybody. There is no two way about it. I, for one, prefer the "harsh" manner our men in blue contain the IMF fresco. What other foreigners feel? Well, that is their problem.

    BTW - the demostrations I have witnessed were in Indonesia (some housing issues), Chicago (some racist issues), Cardiff (some rugby games) and Taiwan (some political issues). My job requires me to travel to various parts of the World and hence the opportunity.

    Just my opinion. Thx for reading. Have a blessed day.
    Cheers
    I read with admiration as to some of the views (which reflects a degree of wisdom and foresight) that has been shared and perchance, a bit of amusement for some of the others. I am not very sure how many of those (who are agree-able to protests or thinks that we are being overly kiasu when it comes to safety and security) have been to countries that are in turmoil or worse still, have experienced a full scale riot/protest but i would doubt anyone want such a scenario to take place if they have really experienced one.

    Its heartening to see everyone expressing their views in a generally objective manner and I would encourage such discussion but please do not let this degenerate into some petty name calling session or worse, a flame war.

    Thank you.
    Last edited by Wolfgang; 15th September 2006 at 01:22 PM.
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  18. #38

    Default Re: BBC: Singapore 'breaks protest deal'

    Quote Originally Posted by centuryegg
    I already have tons of foreigners here to wreck our homes, take away our jobs, I dont want them to come tear down trees and mess up the place with their clashes with police.
    Its sad that you think this way...

  19. #39

    Default Re: BBC: Singapore 'breaks protest deal'

    Actually the whole situation is simply that our Government is too kaisu..... first it tried to justify by reasoning that it is for security reason and for the delegates' own good, but nobody bought this reason and then it tried to justify it again by saying that the Government will not have double standard, ok for foreigners and not ok for local (when has it ever considered local's view in implementing things? )...
    Again the bigshots didnt buy this reason, and so we tried again, by giving a 8x8 INDOOR area .....
    Then it "banned" some activists .... haha, world community protests, then modified to not totally banned but depend on the immigration officers ( ) .....
    Come on Singapore, 4 million smiles and 4 million excuses?

    Personally I think our Government should simply accept their suggestion and go for an exception to allow these foreign activists to have a free-for-all outdoor confined protests and not defend on fine prints to say "NO, you have misread our Memorandum of Understanding, etc..", (like those with KL), There are certain advantage for this: A test of our RIOT POLICE readiness to react to real situations (they have been practising with fake protesters, and here we have free, professional and foreign quality talents). If the outdoor area is confined and controlled, as well as the no of activists, I dont think there will be too much damages done. Anyway our RIOT team is so well prepared and our hardwares are known to be world class, why fear the few tens of angmo venting their frustrations?
    I say go for it, Singpapore .... and it will provides some educational or entertainment to the young and restless, since our MM is always talking about the 50's riots which the young has never seen before. Are we really that helpless as to dare not to face some real riots? I say, go for it, Singapore and show the world how Singapore can contain real riots! Then probably we will stand another good chance to host these wayangs again.
    always the Light, .... always.

  20. #40

    Default Re: BBC: Singapore 'breaks protest deal'

    Can I say Singapore is not yet ready for MICE?


    .

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