View Poll Results: Are there too many photographer-wannabe out there?

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  • Yes!! But only a handful can make it there!

    144 52.94%
  • No!! It happens in every trade!

    128 47.06%
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Thread: Too many photographer-wannabe out there!

  1. #121
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    Default Re: Too many photographer-wannabe out there!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesecake View Post
    passion is the beginning.

    money will start to take over.

    soon, all become stale and hey, its just a job!


    how to keep the passion for photography going when u're doing it professionally(that is making $$ and a living out of it) is a challenge.
    but i'm sure most are pleased with wat they are doing.
    if its a job, one will set a limit to the expenditure...the amount of time/money spent will not exceed e money he gets.

    when its passion, it means doing it till e way it was envisioned..even if it means making a lost for the project.

    funny thing is ppl w passion and willing to go all out for the clients/ideas seldom end up dead in their business though they sometimes lose money to get the job done.

    take care of the customer and your business is taken care of...

  2. #122
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    Default Re: Too many photographer-wannabe out there!

    Quote Originally Posted by lovells19 View Post
    hmm so do you think the pros become pro because of money or passion?
    Different pp approach things differently. Really depends from pp to pp. No std answer to this.

  3. #123
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    Default Re: Too many photographer-wannabe out there!

    Quote Originally Posted by surge View Post
    if its a job, one will set a limit to the expenditure...the amount of time/money spent will not exceed e money he gets.

    when its passion, it means doing it till e way it was envisioned..even if it means making a lost for the project.

    funny thing is ppl w passion and willing to go all out for the clients/ideas seldom end up dead in their business though they sometimes lose money to get the job done.

    take care of the customer and your business is taken care of...
    I sometimes get a lesser profit just to add in things that is not in the package cause I felt that certain things are nice to give. I may so called lose profit but hey, recommendations just come in.

  4. #124
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    Default Re: Too many photographer-wannabe out there!

    Nods,

    Not many people can keep passion above the money, but its the nice customers that deserves the perks, Service shouldn't be just once sided, good customers deserves extras, cheapo ones just don't get it.

    Sometimes doing abit more does give the "job Satisfaction" when you see satisfied customers. and of cos, Being able to induge in your passion

  5. #125
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    Default Re: Too many photographer-wannabe out there!

    Quote Originally Posted by lovells19 View Post
    Nods,

    Not many people can keep passion above the money, but its the nice customers that deserves the perks, Service shouldn't be just once sided, good customers deserves extras, cheapo ones just don't get it.

    Sometimes doing abit more does give the "job Satisfaction" when you see satisfied customers. and of cos, Being able to induge in your passion
    Yup. Only nice customers receive the extra perks. Dun mind doing a bit extra.

  6. #126
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    Default Re: Too many photographer-wannabe out there!

    Quote Originally Posted by CreaXion View Post
    Yup. Only nice customers receive the extra perks. Dun mind doing a bit extra.
    i find that Singaporeans are just working to feed mouths... no longer for passions or dreams. The peer pressure from people in material wealth is so great.. that why credit card business is doing so well down there. We are becoming like HongKong.. people working 2 jobs to survive thru the standard of living ! and so are the stress induced illnesses.. maybe sudden death..

    maybe that is why it is hard to find good customer service in Singapore.. people dun smile much but grumbled a lot becos of stress of keeping ahead in a fast progressive society.

    only a few make it well to the top.

  7. #127

    Default Re: Too many photographer-wannabe out there!

    Quote Originally Posted by vernonleow View Post
    Nothing wrong with having wannabes.

    The REAL problem is Pros who are killing the industry by under charging to land a job. This results in jobs going to the cheapest guy and the market suffers. Quality stagnates as there is less incentive to compete by improving one's quality of photos. Only the dedicated ones who know that it is a life-long learning process and do it with passion.

    Remember this.

    Pro means someone who gets paid. It does NOT mean good or better photographer. Lots of photographers out there are way better.

    Equipment is a tool. Actually, the hobbyists are the ones buying the best equipment. How many pros shoot with a Leica?

    To those who feel like a pro when they use a DSLR and are upset because everyone has one, please go walk around with a HD2 39.
    I totally agree with you.
    Photography is my hobby and I have a group of friends who are alike and we buy tons of equipment. We learn from each other and have some how improve our skills over the years.
    There are certain events that we help cover (on a voluntary basis - ie. free) which strangely also hired a pro. The organisers were actually more impressed with the volunteers' photos then those taken by the pro.
    So your statement that "Pro means someone who gets paid. It does NOT mean good or better photographer" is henceforth proven.

  8. #128
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    Default Re: Too many photographer-wannabe out there!

    Quote Originally Posted by Inimatad View Post
    I totally agree with you.
    Photography is my hobby and I have a group of friends who are alike and we buy tons of equipment. We learn from each other and have some how improve our skills over the years.
    There are certain events that we help cover (on a voluntary basis - ie. free) which strangely also hired a pro. The organisers were actually more impressed with the volunteers' photos then those taken by the pro.
    So your statement that "Pro means someone who gets paid. It does NOT mean good or better photographer" is henceforth proven.
    pros take photos that can 'answer' to their clients...where got time to always think of new angle and try new lens etc. sometimes organisers pay so little...so they only get a guy to press shutter...

    'volunteers' have tons of equipment( me also guilty as charge...now am busy playing fisheye lens...) and when they get a new lens....its time to 'play' w it thinking that somehow this new lens wil add new dimension to photography!!!

    i know very well its practise i need but still end up w new lens that never leave house before yet!!

    c

  9. #129
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    Default Re: Too many photographer-wannabe out there!

    Quote Originally Posted by raincool2005 View Post
    maybe that is why it is hard to find good customer service in Singapore.. people dun smile much but grumbled a lot becos of stress of keeping ahead in a fast progressive society.
    heh, people overseas comment on why sg's look so grumpy all the time when they live in nice tropical country...
    now we know why lol

    i do get commisioned - hence paid - thus perhaps can be referred to as a pro tog, but i dont always use pro quipment [my pentax is apparently not 'pro' but i use a nikon D2 series now as well, as well as a p&s fuji zoom series before them], and i dont call myself good either.
    but the distinction in the west appears to be that anyone can be a photographer, but pro's are paid photographers [but not necessarily better in talent/technique/output].

    we get the same in other industries, i work in other creative industries and we get the hobbyists and enthusiasts who produce wonderful pieces but it isnt considered commercial - they take too long, have oddball workflows, etc or just seem incompatible or dont want to work in that field [afterall, a hobby that pays soon turns into working drudgery] - whereas those of us referred to as pro's often churn out what even we think is substandard stuff but we get paid [to do it] and thats what/why we're referred to as. not because we're better...

    c'est la vie, eh?
    *D700,D2X,D2H,Mamiya*

  10. #130
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    Default Re: Too many photographer-wannabe out there!

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn View Post
    A wannabe can be a good photographer if he makes himself eat the humble pie big time.
    A good photographer can also be a wannabe if his ego expands bigger than what his head can hold.

    50% of the time, a wannabe can never a good photographer.
    However, its almost 99% of the time that a good photographer turns into a wannabe.
    Then you have no idea my friend.

    It's not about eating humble pie or anything like that. If you're pretty good you can say all you want and nobody can budge you. Of course, it hurts the social life, but going on.

    I would say this, that to me being professional does not carry any prestige, just an occupation. Anybody could be professional: just invest. Of course, as applies in all sort of occupations, the old adage of : If you want to do anything for a living, you better be damn good in it.

    wannabe or not...I have no idea. I haven't met a good photographer who went to that stage as you said: most of them couldn't be bothered and are more interested to finding a new way of doing things.

    Too much humble pie has its own after effects. Imagine you just sucked in what everybody says and all the 'sifus' you encountered with. Honestly, you're not gonna get any better but instead be a copy, a confusing mix of all knowledge gained without any structural know how. It's better to instead go out and look in various media (e.g. books..pictures), and form your own theories and understanding of the subject matter.

    That is why over at the critique corner, I insists telling a critique seeker that 'you should go at this angle and wait till sunset bla bla bla' is not going to help. Just tell that person what you think of the photograph , not tell him how to take a better picture.

    As a matter of fact, I can't think of any 'good' photographers that was taught. They discuss, but they were never taught. Look outwards, not open mouth and swallow like a goddamn blue whale.

    As for you using your equipment as a b*tchslap well I couldn't really say you're any better than him really.
    Last edited by Wisp; 14th December 2006 at 07:57 AM.

  11. #131
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    Default Re: Too many photographer-wannabe out there!

    Quote Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
    heh, people overseas comment on why sg's look so grumpy all the time when they live in nice tropical country...
    now we know why lol

    i do get commisioned - hence paid - thus perhaps can be referred to as a pro tog, but i dont always use pro quipment [my pentax is apparently not 'pro' but i use a nikon D2 series now as well, as well as a p&s fuji zoom series before them], and i dont call myself good either.
    but the distinction in the west appears to be that anyone can be a photographer, but pro's are paid photographers [but not necessarily better in talent/technique/output].

    we get the same in other industries, i work in other creative industries and we get the hobbyists and enthusiasts who produce wonderful pieces but it isnt considered commercial - they take too long, have oddball workflows, etc or just seem incompatible or dont want to work in that field [afterall, a hobby that pays soon turns into working drudgery] - whereas those of us referred to as pro's often churn out what even we think is substandard stuff but we get paid [to do it] and thats what/why we're referred to as. not because we're better...

    c'est la vie, eh?
    I so agree with that..I took a course last sem on fine art photography with one award winning photographers as my guide and surprisingly:

    I really hated it.

    Working for a living just puts pressure on. Anything with pressure doesn't turn that enjoyable soon after I guess

  12. #132
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    Default Re: Too many photographer-wannabe out there!

    Quote Originally Posted by Inimatad View Post
    I totally agree with you.
    Photography is my hobby and I have a group of friends who are alike and we buy tons of equipment. We learn from each other and have some how improve our skills over the years.
    There are certain events that we help cover (on a voluntary basis - ie. free) which strangely also hired a pro. The organisers were actually more impressed with the volunteers' photos then those taken by the pro.
    So your statement that "Pro means someone who gets paid. It does NOT mean good or better photographer" is henceforth proven.
    Before I decided to freelance, I took for my cousin's photos of their wedding. Interestingly, my photos turn out much better than the "pros". That is why I decided to go into the money making biz but it does not make me calculative cause my ultimate aim is to challenge myself to take better photos during each job. Thus, it is really a matter of personal objectives. The money I got is just for me to invest in my hobby. If I turn full time, I am not sure whether things will still be the same though cause that will change my objectives. Can't really be sure.

  13. #133
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    Default Re: Too many photographer-wannabe out there!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp View Post
    Then you have no idea my friend.

    It's not about eating humble pie or anything like that. If you're pretty good you can say all you want and nobody can budge you. Of course, it hurts the social life, but going on.

    I would say this, that to me being professional does not carry any prestige, just an occupation. Anybody could be professional: just invest. Of course, as applies in all sort of occupations, the old adage of : If you want to do anything for a living, you better be damn good in it.

    wannabe or not...I have no idea. I haven't met a good photographer who went to that stage as you said: most of them couldn't be bothered and are more interested to finding a new way of doing things.

    Too much humble pie has its own after effects. Imagine you just sucked in what everybody says and all the 'sifus' you encountered with. Honestly, you're not gonna get any better but instead be a copy, a confusing mix of all knowledge gained without any structural know how. It's better to instead go out and look in various media (e.g. books..pictures), and form your own theories and understanding of the subject matter.

    That is why over at the critique corner, I insists telling a critique seeker that 'you should go at this angle and wait till sunset bla bla bla' is not going to help. Just tell that person what you think of the photograph , not tell him how to take a better picture.

    As a matter of fact, I can't think of any 'good' photographers that was taught. They discuss, but they were never taught. Look outwards, not open mouth and swallow like a goddamn blue whale.

    As for you using your equipment as a b*tchslap well I couldn't really say you're any better than him really.
    most of the time money goes to those who are persistant and fight for what they want. not neccessary they are the best.

    talent, brain, education etc is nothing without persistance.

    sometimes you see really poorly done wedding albums and you think like that also can make it ah....yet these ppl are making a living out of it. so again...talent is NOTHING without hardwork.

  14. #134
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    Default Re: Too many photographer-wannabe out there!

    Quote Originally Posted by surge View Post
    most of the time money goes to those who are persistant and fight for what they want. not neccessary they are the best.

    talent, brain, education etc is nothing without persistance.

    Aren't you saying exactly the same thing I'm saying? The 'best' you're talking about is more on inborn talent, but ultimately you would have to strive for it to keep ahead of the competition.
    Quote Originally Posted by surge View Post
    sometimes you see really poorly done wedding albums and you think like that also can make it ah....yet these ppl are making a living out of it. so again...talent is NOTHING without hardwork.
    And your last quote doesn't make sense..please explain.

  15. #135

    Default Re: Too many photographer-wannabe out there!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp View Post
    It's not about eating humble pie or anything like that. If you're pretty good you can say all you want and nobody can budge you. Of course, it hurts the social life, but going on.
    ah boy..... anyone, including the best professional (and wannabe like yrself) must not only eat humble pie but also must appreciate them ....
    It will help you in yr social life.
    always the Light, .... always.

  16. #136
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    Default Re: Too many photographer-wannabe out there!

    Does driving a sports car makes you a professional racer?

  17. #137

    Default Re: Too many photographer-wannabe out there!

    Sometimes those self-proclaimed pros are the one who earn. Because they bother to self-proclaim as one, even if they sucked, they are earning. Thats about turning professional nowadays for many isn't it, the material and monetary satisfaction.

    Talking about artistic values and ethics? Not in this captalistic society.

  18. #138
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    Default Re: Too many photographer-wannabe out there!

    Quote Originally Posted by shooter View Post
    Don't you agree??!!

    Every1 thought owning a dslr can make u an instant photographer!! How true is that!!
    Do you have a problem with it?

    I don't have a problem with it.
    Last edited by Sion; 26th December 2006 at 11:58 AM.

  19. #139
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    Default Re: Too many photographer-wannabe out there!

    Quote Originally Posted by shooter View Post
    Don't you agree??!!

    Every1 thought owning a dslr can make u an instant photographer!! How true is that!!
    Quote Originally Posted by shooter View Post
    Paiseh... what i meant is making $$ out of photography....another words being a PROFESSIONAL..
    I don't have any problem with that too...

    they have their way to make money, I have my way too..
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  20. #140
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    Default Re: Too many photographer-wannabe out there!

    Taking a picture, is simple, just press the biggest button at the top of the camera.

    Photography is more than that.

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