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Thread: IMF World Bank Brief - My take on Photography scene in Singapore.

  1. #61

    Default Re: IMF World Bank Brief - My take on Photography scene in Singapore.

    Quote Originally Posted by oeyvind
    aiyo... if you think these will be valuable experience for you, then by all means go ahead do it. All I wanna say is make sure you u like/enjoy it, and try not being someone's slave.
    well thank u for not taking it offensively.

    anyway i believe it will be a valuable experience and most fortunately, i dun feel like being someone's slave. I volunteered, and they offered to give me pocket money, and offered the use of their latest technology (wifi and all)..guess I've nothing to complain about, yea?

    Peace.

  2. #62
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    Default Re: IMF World Bank Brief - My take on Photography scene in Singapore.

    I am amused....

    1st at the banning of Canon cameras.... must be some local Fuji head's idea.... besides how are they gonna ban press photogs? Geez!

    2nd at using student photogs with the bribe of "experience" and a lousy $50 - which is what I pay a delivery boy to drive a package from point A to B. The only experience I can think of is that you learn how to read fine prints and figure out that "experience" is double edged. Oh... you do "experience" being exploited... so you can say that there is something to be learnt after all.

    3rd at zero copyright to the pictures and zero images to bring home.... how are you gonna review your shots and learn anything?


    All the best to the IMF. And all the best to the $50 photogs. Hope you win a Pulitzer.... Oops... I forgot... you dont have the pics after all...

    Just kidding folks! I wish good things come out of the IMF.

  3. #63

    Thumbs up Re: IMF World Bank Brief - My take on Photography scene in Singapore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zplus
    I am amused....

    1st at the banning of Canon cameras.... must be some local Fuji head's idea.... besides how are they gonna ban press photogs? Geez!

    2nd at using student photogs with the bribe of "experience" and a lousy $50 - which is what I pay a delivery boy to drive a package from point A to B. The only experience I can think of is that you learn how to read fine prints and figure out that "experience" is double edged. Oh... you do "experience" being exploited... so you can say that there is something to be learnt after all.

    3rd at zero copyright to the pictures and zero images to bring home.... how are you gonna review your shots and learn anything?


    All the best to the IMF. And all the best to the $50 photogs. Hope you win a Pulitzer.... Oops... I forgot... you dont have the pics after all...

    Just kidding folks! I wish good things come out of the IMF.
    Well written

  4. #64

    Default Re: IMF World Bank Brief - My take on Photography scene in Singapore.

    Quote Originally Posted by melvinmah
    i think she meant the experience for student photographers to be involved in such a big event. Not everyone have this opportunity.

    And yes, Fuji Xerox have said they will loan out cameras.
    Yea, thou they've said they'll loan out cameras, would you take it if you're in my position?

    my question would probably be:

    1. will i be as efficient in their equipment as compared to what i have and

    2. will i have as much equipment as what i have as compared to what's loaned to us.

    if it's a resounding yes to both question, i wont be typing this thread as well =)

  5. #65

    Default Re: IMF World Bank Brief - My take on Photography scene in Singapore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stratix
    Yea, thou they've said they'll loan out cameras, would you take it if you're in my position?

    my question would probably be:

    1. will i be as efficient in their equipment as compared to what i have and

    2. will i have as much equipment as what i have as compared to what's loaned to us.

    if it's a resounding yes to both question, i wont be typing this thread as well =)
    i was just answering to someone's qn directly. He asked if Fuji will supply 'em.

    Gary, since you are questioning me now, I would say no. If I'm a Canon user like you, I would stand firm and not participate in this event. Whining so much doesn't help. Perhaps email 'em and bring up the matter instead. I'm sure they can work something out since Canon users seem to be the majority. And to your 2nd qn, equipment wise, I think they have more equipment than you.

    Does that ans your qn?

  6. #66

    Default Re: IMF World Bank Brief - My take on Photography scene in Singapore.

    Quote Originally Posted by melvinmah
    i was just answering to someone's qn directly. He asked if Fuji will supply 'em.

    Gary, since you are questioning me now, I would say no. If I'm a Canon user like you, I would stand firm and not participate in this event. Whining so much doesn't help. Perhaps email 'em and bring up the matter instead. I'm sure they can work something out since Canon users seem to be the majority. And to your 2nd qn, equipment wise, I think they have more equipment than you.

    Does that ans your qn?
    haha.

    i'll hope to get into the event as much as you do, but unfortunately, or rather, unluckly, i'm using a Canon system.

    and yes, they can have all the equipment you'll ever think of, but what about those that will actually be loaned out? some food for thought over here =)

  7. #67

    Default Re: IMF World Bank Brief - My take on Photography scene in Singapore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zplus
    I am amused....

    1st at the banning of Canon cameras.... must be some local Fuji head's idea.... besides how are they gonna ban press photogs? Geez!

    2nd at using student photogs with the bribe of "experience" and a lousy $50 - which is what I pay a delivery boy to drive a package from point A to B. The only experience I can think of is that you learn how to read fine prints and figure out that "experience" is double edged. Oh... you do "experience" being exploited... so you can say that there is something to be learnt after all.

    3rd at zero copyright to the pictures and zero images to bring home.... how are you gonna review your shots and learn anything?


    All the best to the IMF. And all the best to the $50 photogs. Hope you win a Pulitzer.... Oops... I forgot... you dont have the pics after all...

    Just kidding folks! I wish good things come out of the IMF.

    To those people who are interested in shooting for this

    Zplus has made a few good points and I'd like to add on that
    1)You don't get to keep your images.So it's not even TFCD. it's more like Trade-For-Nothing
    *TFCD= Trade for CD

    2)A big company that is handling getting photographs taken of a big scale event such as the
    IMF, can't even put aside a decent budget to pay people for photos decently. I can understand if they're a theater company with little budget, for a small event. But this is more like a big company that's eating abalone and then trying to save money by haggling witht he vegetable auntie for cheap bean sprouts.

    3) Tons and tons of people in the future will try to make you do things for free with the promise of exposure and experience.
    And tons and tons of unsuspecting people will always be ready to take up these offers, as the ones who do such things and get assraped will realise they are being exploited, and stop doing such gigs.

  8. #68

    Default Re: IMF World Bank Brief - My take on Photography scene in Singapore.

    I believe mattlock and Zplus have basically summed up how I feel about this whole thing. So to the question melvinmah asked me, "No, I don't intend to get myself exploited". Seriously, I get more of such "experience" in my regular CCA activities and actually have pictures to prove it... NPNT!

  9. #69
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    Default Re: IMF World Bank Brief - My take on Photography scene in Singapore.

    What kind of recognition do you get from this event?
    what kind of experience do you get from this event?

    Are they going to put your name on the picture or just "pic by student volunteer"? Your picture is not going to be in your portfolio so what is the use? they are hiring you for 50/day, as much as you say that is an allowance, you are still receiving for services. Cheap labour I would say, use your own equipment, you pay to go to the place, spend 1 whole day there and got nothing to show but that lousy 50 dollars. i would just go find some part time work as I can get paid more.

  10. #70

    Default Re: IMF World Bank Brief - My take on Photography scene in Singapore.

    I would like to add another point
    Especially prevalent in Singapore (Asia too perhaps) is this lack of long-term care for the professional community
    Since digital photography has become much cheaper and more prevalent, more and more people are assuming that photography is cheap. This is partly due to people offering free services or undercutting others. Each job that some photographer offers for free or cheaper than is sustainable due to his passion is just adding to the impression that photography is cheap and isn't worth paying for.
    I think that even though shooting an event like this may give you some "experience", it hurts the photographic community here in Singapore for the reasons mentioned above.

    I don't get it, people don't ask chefs to cook for them for free, and are willing to pay good money for quality.

  11. #71

    Default Re: IMF World Bank Brief - My take on Photography scene in Singapore.

    Summary:

    Fuji ask students to shoot for $50/day.
    Fuji only allow Fuji cameras to be used by them.
    Students canot keep any of the photographs.
    Students canot even view their photographs on a larger screen for review purposes.
    Students canot use any of the photographs they shot in their portfolio.
    Students do not get the copyright.
    Fuji buys the full rights to the photographs at $50/day.

    Isn't this pure exploitation?
    I feel so ashamed that I have a Fuji F30 in my bag..




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  12. #72
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    Default Re: IMF World Bank Brief - My take on Photography scene in Singapore.

    Quote Originally Posted by melvinmah
    i think she meant the experience for student photographers to be involved in such a big event. Not everyone have this opportunity.

    And yes, Fuji Xerox have said they will loan out cameras.
    if i were a student volunteer, will i be allowed to loan a S3 pro, a AF-S 200mm f2 or AF-S 300mm f2.8 for use?
    eat. drink. shoot

  13. #73

    Default Re: IMF World Bank Brief - My take on Photography scene in Singapore.

    Quote Originally Posted by AReality
    Summary:

    Fuji ask students to shoot for $50/day.
    Fuji only allow Fuji cameras to be used by them.
    Students canot keep any of the photographs.
    Students canot even view their photographs on a larger screen for review purposes.
    Students canot use any of the photographs they shot in their portfolio.
    Students do not get the copyright.
    Fuji buys the full rights to the photographs at $50/day.

    Isn't this pure exploitation?
    I feel so ashamed that I have a Fuji F30 in my bag..




    .
    I believe the rights to photos belong to MICA as stated during the briefing. The IMF meetings are organised by various goverment agencies and it makes sense for the photos to belong to them instead of a main sponsor or supporting company.

    Not sure who exactly is paying the $50/day. I'm guessing it's NYAA Council, probably not Fuji, with MAS matching the amount to NYAA's fund.
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  14. #74

    Default Re: IMF World Bank Brief - My take on Photography scene in Singapore.

    c'mon guys! these students took up the assignment on a voluntary basis. not everyone applied for it for the money. it's really sad to see that photography has come to a stage where apparently you guys are only seeing it for the money and fame, in this case.

    in the first place, these people volunteered their time so one shouldn't be expecting any form of rewards. but for this case, they're getting a $50/day allowance and top of it, the sponsors are gonna loan out the equipment. it's up to the sponsors and organizers to decide if they wanna give some recognition to these people. i don't really know how the organizers are gonna sort out those images, but i'm pretty sure there's some way if they really do it.

    since you feel that you won't gain alot from it, then of course you're better off taking up a part-time job.

    let's stop discouraging these young photographers from pursuing their passion. afterall, we all share a common interest rite? congratulations to these young photographers on being part of this event. all the best!

  15. #75

    Default Re: IMF World Bank Brief - My take on Photography scene in Singapore.

    Quote Originally Posted by CY_OH
    I believe the rights to photos belong to MICA as stated during the briefing. The IMF meetings are organised by various goverment agencies and it makes sense for the photos to belong to them instead of a main sponsor or supporting company.

    Not sure who exactly is paying the $50/day. I'm guessing it's NYAA Council, probably not Fuji, with MAS matching the amount to NYAA's fund.
    It does say something that the ministry that deals with the arts doesn't want to pay decently for photographers.
    heh heh

  16. #76

    Default Re: IMF World Bank Brief - My take on Photography scene in Singapore.

    Quote Originally Posted by irenet
    c'mon guys! these students took up the assignment on a voluntary basis. not everyone applied for it for the money. it's really sad to see that photography has come to a stage where apparently you guys are only seeing it for the money and fame, in this case.

    in the first place, these people volunteered their time so one shouldn't be expecting any form of rewards. but for this case, they're getting a $50/day allowance and top of it, the sponsors are gonna loan out the equipment. it's up to the sponsors and organizers to decide if they wanna give some recognition to these people. i don't really know how the organizers are gonna sort out those images, but i'm pretty sure there's some way if they really do it.

    since you feel that you won't gain alot from it, then of course you're better off taking up a part-time job.

    let's stop discouraging these young photographers from pursuing their passion. afterall, we all share a common interest rite? congratulations to these young photographers on being part of this event. all the best!
    we're not discouraging them from pursuing their passion
    I'm a photographer too and I'm all for passion
    People volunteer for charities because charities by their very nature have a very low budget to work with.
    What does the IMF have that is socially beneficial and for the greater good? And also is it reasonable to ask for volunteers for an event that is so high profile and related to money? What is the reason they can't afford to pay to hire people to work?
    One would think that an event that has the word MONETARY in it would have some way of coming up with a decent budget.

    The only thing this reeks of is exploitation.

  17. #77

    Smile Re: IMF World Bank Brief - My take on Photography scene in Singapore.

    preposterous! i cannot believe that media photographers cannot use Canon to cover the event.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stratix
    As a photographer whom just attended a briefing session held by MAS / MFA / MICA / Fuji Xerox, for the World Bank / IMF Meetings next month. I can’t help but to wonder, what and where photography has headed towards when it comes to our small red dot – a place we call home, Singapore.

    Because Fuji Xerox is the sponsors for the event in terms of imaging, and all related products / services, they had explicitly mentioned that no Canon cameras will be allowed on the ground during that event, because of the conflict in branding. Canon and Fuji Xerox are rivals in the imaging business. Sad to say, they encourage Fujifilm cameras, and of course Nikon (since they are housed in the same building…)

    Call me sore loser, but as a Canon user, a photographer (not a good one thou), and more importantly – a technology observer, I find this rather amusing.

    Not trying to boast about the superiority of Canon technology, but in which way are Canon less superior to the “allowed” brands?

    While there’re so much talk about anti-trusts in the States and Europe, we Singapore had also signed a FTA with them. As a result, we’ve seen more and more observations followed by the Singaporean Government – so isn’t this a blatant offense?

    Sad to say, photography had ended up into a state where brands are an issue – no longer a form of visual arts like I’ve perceived it to be.

    I’m sorry if I’ve offended anyone here, but really, I can’t help but to find even the mentioning of the “no Canon” rule amusing – especially when it holds one of the biggest communities when it comes to photography.

    End of rant. Thanks for reading. =)
    Last edited by reachme2003; 27th August 2006 at 01:01 PM.

  18. #78

    Default Re: IMF World Bank Brief - My take on Photography scene in Singapore.

    I wonder how much the other volunteers are getting paid to participate in the IMF. Remembered that there were many professionals who took leave just to participate in it, and I don't reckon they will be paid much. It's more for the experience rather than anything else. In the case of this student photographers thingy, if the details are accurate, it should be looked at in a similar way to all other IMF volunteers and nothing more, just for the experience. $ too low, then probably sit at home to bum around or go out to spend $$$$ instead.

  19. #79
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    Default Re: IMF World Bank Brief - My take on Photography scene in Singapore.

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock
    ....What does the IMF have that is socially beneficial and for the greater good? And also is it reasonable to ask for volunteers for an event that is so high profile and related to money? What is the reason they can't afford to pay to hire people to work?
    One would think that an event that has the word MONETARY in it would have some way of coming up with a decent budget.

    The only thing this reeks of is exploitation.
    Considering that the IMF and World Bank are tools used by the rich nations of the world to exploit the poorer nations (by continually keeping them in massive debt and taking their resources), think that last line is quite apt for an IMF event.

  20. #80
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    Default Re: IMF World Bank Brief - My take on Photography scene in Singapore.

    Quote Originally Posted by irenet
    c'mon guys! these students took up the assignment on a voluntary basis. not everyone applied for it for the money. it's really sad to see that photography has come to a stage where apparently you guys are only seeing it for the money and fame, in this case.

    in the first place, these people volunteered their time so one shouldn't be expecting any form of rewards. but for this case, they're getting a $50/day allowance and top of it, the sponsors are gonna loan out the equipment. it's up to the sponsors and organizers to decide if they wanna give some recognition to these people. i don't really know how the organizers are gonna sort out those images, but i'm pretty sure there's some way if they really do it.

    since you feel that you won't gain alot from it, then of course you're better off taking up a part-time job.

    let's stop discouraging these young photographers from pursuing their passion. afterall, we all share a common interest rite? congratulations to these young photographers on being part of this event. all the best!
    considering the nature of the event and the organization, this is pretty much exploitation. Charities, NDPs I can accept but then WTF is it with the IMF? I believe you still get limited rights with Charities and you still get to see what you took. From the details that is given so far, the volunteers dont even get to see what they took. Could be all sh!t for all we know. and there is a pretty high chance that the credits will be a mass credit or they **** up and got it all wrong.

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