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Thread: Labrador Sunset, please comment

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Labrador Sunset, please comment

    Well I didn't take the photograph: I leave it to the TS.

    And don't take this personally too:

    But, what's wrong viewing it besides rocks and water at sea? Is it just constrained to the fact that it must be portrayed as rocks at the waveline? Sense of scale is optional: in this case the my purpose to project the image that allows the viewer to draw his/her own conclusions..whatever the intent.

    Flaw over the rocks? I don't quite get what you mean. I didn't really like the framing, and I would tend to agree with you, but what flaw with the rocks? We're going to have a make up artist to correct the flaws?

    So it has to be likened as mountains and snow? Or waves washing over rocks? I'm sorry but I do not prescribe myself to such fixed prespectives when it comes to photography. If every image is expected to turn out exactly the way you expect it to be (not from the photographer's point of view: the audience), where's the art form? Why bother with 'styles' or 'experimentation' or work on 'perception'?

    Why bother to take images in the first place?

    Let me put it this way: If I was the threadstarter and I didn't title the picture, would you comment the way you did?
    Last edited by Wisp; 26th August 2006 at 09:29 AM.

  2. #42

    Default Re: Labrador Sunset, please comment

    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp
    Let's get not too profound..I'm not exactly the brightest.

    Could you simplify it?
    I thought what Zoosh said was quite simple to understand already.

  3. #43

    Default Re: Labrador Sunset, please comment

    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp
    Well I didn't take the photograph: I leave it to the TS.

    And don't take this personally too:

    But, what's wrong viewing it besides rocks and water at sea? Is it just constrained to the fact that it must be portrayed as rocks at the waveline? Sense of scale is optional: in this case the my purpose to project the image that allows the viewer to draw his/her own conclusions..whatever the intent.

    Flaw over the rocks? I don't quite get what you mean. I didn't really like the framing, and I would tend to agree with you, but what flaw with the rocks? We're going to have a make up artist to correct the flaws?

    So it has to be likened as mountains and snow? Or waves washing over rocks? I'm sorry but I do not prescribe myself to such fixed prespectives when it comes to photography. If every image is expected to turn out exactly the way you expect it to be (not from the photographer's point of view: the audience), where's the art form? Why bother with 'styles' or 'experimentation' or work on 'perception'?

    Why bother to take images in the first place?

    Let me put it this way: If I was the threadstarter and I didn't title the picture, would you comment the way you did?
    Apparently, you still don't understand what Zoosh said.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Labrador Sunset, please comment

    Quote Originally Posted by Clockunder
    I thought what Zoosh said was quite simple to understand already.
    Good for you, but I don't see how your statement is going to help me understand him.

  5. #45

    Default Re: Labrador Sunset, please comment

    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp
    Good for you, but I don't see how your statement is going to help me understand him.
    All you need to do is read and think.

  6. #46

    Default Re: Labrador Sunset, please comment

    Quote Originally Posted by philip827
    Hi,

    i hope to produce photos of similiar texture to these, the colors are smooth and doesn't look forced out from photoshop.
    http://photo.net/photodb/member-phot...user_id=264657

    Another example is photo #4 taken by Knoxknocks, i feel this is the best labrador photo.
    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthrea...light=labrador

    The colors in these photos look so much better, are there filters involved?
    I think the time of the day and weather (i.e. light condition at the time of taking the photos), besides the composition (how and how large the main subjects appear in the frame), are also important. May be you need to find out the best time to create the effect you want. As for effects, you probably need to experiment with different technqiues.

    For pictures posted in your first link, the focal points are the big big rocks and their interesting edges, forms/shapes, size, textures, details and contrasts were very prominent. They are not the usual rocks which we often see. The sea and the sands complemented the rocks. Not sure if there were extensive dodging and burning.

  7. #47

    Default Re: Labrador Sunset, please comment

    Quote Originally Posted by zoossh
    too little space around the rocks would exaggerate the flaw when only the rocks are shown. and i think when the rocks are isolated, it became quite abstract - it can be rocks in snow, or a mountain amidst the clouds.
    Yes, I agree that making the rocks the main focus point could well turn out to be another very interesting picture if the rock on the left is more away from the left edge. This means shifting the camera pointing slightly more leftwards, shoot in landscape mode, zoom in so that the horizon can't be seen and the 2 rocks become much larger in the frame to show case their shapes, details, textures and colours etc.

    Without the horizon in the frame, viewers are left to their own imagination about the rock sizes and where they actually lie and whether the whitish surrondings are clouds or water or mist/smokes. So the rocks would well be imagined by some as islands in a whitish sea and the picture was assumed to be taken from an aeroplane.. ......... i.e. become more abstract.

    As it is now, the rock on the left is too near to the left edge after the crop, giving the feeling that either the left piece of rock was not intended to be the focal point in the story when the picture was taken or the shooter doesn't know how to frame the picture if the rock was intended as the main subject.
    Last edited by Clockunder; 26th August 2006 at 10:01 AM.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Labrador Sunset, please comment

    Quote Originally Posted by Clockunder
    All you need to do is read and think.
    Same applies to my post.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Labrador Sunset, please comment

    Quote Originally Posted by zoossh
    too little space around the rocks would exaggerate the flaw when only the rocks are shown.
    just to be fair, i think the initial statement made by zoossh is grammatically unclear. since it has been cleared up no point arguing for the sake of arguing. i'm abit concerned that TS doesn't understand what's going on.

    from this thread i also see a startling fact that many people are easily attracted to pictures with high contrast and high colour saturation, regardless of composition. i think there's a need to see and not just look at the scene, and then apply what complement, and not having the post processing method in mind and apply to any scene.

    philip827, if you observe carefully the pictures from the website you provided, there is no single method to do everything. it's more important knowing why something is done, not just how something is done.

  10. #50

    Default Re: Labrador Sunset, please comment

    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp
    Same applies to my post.
    If you had read more carefully Zoosh' posts, then there is no need for your this defensive post :

    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showpost....8&postcount=41

  11. #51

    Default Re: Labrador Sunset, please comment

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin
    just to be fair, i think the initial statement made by zoossh is grammatically unclear. since it has been cleared up no point arguing for the sake of arguing. i'm abit concerned that TS doesn't understand what's going on.

    from this thread i also see a startling fact that many people are easily attracted to pictures with high contrast and high colour saturation, regardless of composition. i think there's a need to see and not just look at the scene, and then apply what complement, and not having the post processing method in mind and apply to any scene.

    philip827, if you observe carefully the pictures from the website you provided, there is no single method to do everything. it's more important knowing why something is done, not just how something is done.
    Zoosh was actually complimenting (not criticising) on the abstract perspective the cropped picture would bring. By using the word "flaw", he was merely pointing out that the rock was obviously and strikingly too close to the left edge after the crop since the original picture wasn't taken with the rock as the main focal point. In fact, he merely explained how this abstract perspective was achieved (no horizon or other things in the frame to give relative size) and wasn't saying that it was wrong to have the cropped picture with no horizon etc.

  12. #52
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    Default Re: Labrador Sunset, please comment

    Quote Originally Posted by Clockunder
    If you had read more carefully Zoosh' posts, then there is no need for your this defensive post :

    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showpost....8&postcount=41
    There's nothing defensive about it. It is simply my opinion you do not get what I'm typing about. I had simply asked zoosh to be further more explicit and expressed my own views from my own intepretation.

    As for your statement, you may have 'gotten' it in your own view, but informing me of your fait accompli does nothing to further my understanding than a little annoyance by your (unintentional?) one-upman ship.

  13. #53

    Default Re: Labrador Sunset, please comment

    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp
    There's nothing defensive about it. It is simply my opinion you do not get what I'm typing about. I had simply asked zoosh to be further more explicit and expressed my own views from my own intepretation.

    As for your statement, you may have 'gotten' it in your own view, but informing me of your fait accompli does nothing to further my understanding than a little annoyance by your (unintentional?) one-upman ship.
    If you have problems understanding and interpreting others, it's not my problem but yours.

  14. #54
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    Default Re: Labrador Sunset, please comment

    Quote Originally Posted by Clockunder
    If you have problems understanding and interpreting others, it's not my problem but yours.
    You're the one who made it your problem by interacting with me . And I am referring to his latter post where it was made clear how he views the picture, not to post 41.

  15. #55
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    Default Re: Labrador Sunset, please comment

    Quote Originally Posted by zoossh
    too little space around the rocks would exaggerate the flaw when only the rocks are shown.
    like i said, the initial statement is grammatically unclear.

    i would prefer to rewrite it like this

    ''there is insufficient space around the rocks to hold the tighter composition''


    Quote Originally Posted by zoossh
    also when we have the sea and sky crossed by the horizon with the shipyard, we know what we are looking at, and also with a sense of scale and perspective, we thus know that is the sea, and what is in front are rocks in the sea nearer to you. but when we isolate the rocks, we lost the sense of scale, and it can look like what is taken from the aeroplane down on the mountains that is surrounded by the clouds. and even at the same scale, becos the color of the sea is quite white, without the shipyard in the background, it can also resemble snow instead of water.
    no, zoossh wasn't making a compliment on abstraction.

    Clockunder, you need to read clearly and not be too impatient when answering.
    Last edited by eikin; 26th August 2006 at 10:43 AM.

  16. #56
    Senior Member zoossh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Labrador Sunset, please comment

    a foreword. there's really nothing to get frustrated about. i'm al'right with a little teasy tone at the start and didn't take it badly. and any misunderstanding simply just need to do further elaboration, no need to get personal about who understand and who does not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp
    But, what's wrong viewing it besides rocks and water at sea? Is it just constrained to the fact that it must be portrayed as rocks at the waveline? Sense of scale is optional: in this case the my purpose to project the image that allows the viewer to draw his/her own conclusions..whatever the intent.
    certain things when zoom in or not will not change - a leaf that takes up only 5% of picture and one that takes up 90% of picture still remain a recognisable object. but when the rocks are isolated, there is a loss of scale and suggestive elements around, and it will become abstract, and that depends on your intent - if you want it that way or still to be a recognisable object. of cos there is nothing wrong if you want it abstract.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp
    Flaw over the rocks? I don't quite get what you mean. I didn't really like the framing, and I would tend to agree with you, but what flaw with the rocks? We're going to have a make up artist to correct the flaws?
    sorry if i wasn't clear enough. flaw over the composition around the rocks. i think you roughly got it. so let's not dwell too much of the little bit about grammar. ok?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp
    If I was the threadstarter and I didn't title the picture, would you comment the way you did?
    i wasn't the one who commented that when the title is termed sunset, then it must be a picture with the sun and without the rocks stealing the limelight. well, i would still agree that the title is less appropriate, but i still like the rocks and think it added to a foreground interest as the sky and sea is otherwise too blend for me.

  17. #57
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    Default Re: Labrador Sunset, please comment

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin
    ''there is insufficient space around the rocks to hold the tighter composition''
    let's keep a friendly discussion. dun intend to spark up anything, but something technical about the terminologies, but i might have misunderstood or find it confusing about the "tighter composition" part. i think it would have understand it as

    ''there is insufficient space around the rocks to make the composition tight''

    and rather i think, hopefully, this is easier to understand

    ''there is insufficient space around the rocks to make a more spacious composition''

    ''there is insufficient space around the rocks and that will make the composition too tight''

  18. #58
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    Default Re: Labrador Sunset, please comment

    Quote Originally Posted by zoossh
    a foreword. there's really nothing to get frustrated about. i'm al'right with a little teasy tone at the start and didn't take it badly. and any misunderstanding simply just need to do further elaboration, no need to get personal about who understand and who does not.



    certain things when zoom in or not will not change - a leaf that takes up only 5% of picture and one that takes up 90% of picture still remain a recognisable object. but when the rocks are isolated, there is a loss of scale and suggestive elements around, and it will become abstract, and that depends on your intent - if you want it that way or still to be a recognisable object. of cos there is nothing wrong if you want it abstract.



    sorry if i wasn't clear enough. flaw over the composition around the rocks. i think you roughly got it. so let's not dwell too much of the little bit about grammar. ok?



    i wasn't the one who commented that when the title is termed sunset, then it must be a picture with the sun and without the rocks stealing the limelight. well, i would still agree that the title is less appropriate, but i still like the rocks and think it added to a foreground interest as the sky and sea is otherwise too blend for me.
    Alrighty, at least your stand is clear now. It's now less confusing.

  19. #59
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    Default Re: Labrador Sunset, please comment

    Quote Originally Posted by zoossh
    let's keep a friendly discussion. dun intend to spark up anything, but something technical about the terminologies, but i might have misunderstood or find it confusing about the "tighter composition" part. i think it would have understand it as

    ''there is insufficient space around the rocks to make the composition tight''
    of course

    the word 'tighter' is used because in the course of the thread, there is an original post to make comparison with. the altered image is tighter than what is originally posted.


    Quote Originally Posted by zoossh
    and rather i think, hopefully, this is easier to understand

    ''there is insufficient space around the rocks to make a more spacious composition''
    this i think do not explain well.

    a more spacious composition is unachievable, unless the picture is reshot.


    Quote Originally Posted by zoossh
    ''there is insufficient space around the rocks and that will make the composition too tight''
    it will make the composition too tight if the original image is further cropped


    it might sound like a troublesome exercise on words, but without proper communication there's no discussion

  20. #60
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    Default Re: Labrador Sunset, please comment

    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp
    holy cow that looks like a ice berg / tip of a mountain / antartic island taken from a helicopter.

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