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Thread: A case of double standard

  1. #1

    Default A case of double standard

    Came across this thread recently: http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthrea...80#post2384380

    I quote from the moderator: "Taking of nesting birds are not encouraged at all and it is does more harm to the bird.
    Nesting birds are most vulnerable and any disturbance to the nest may force the parents to abandon the nest and even their chicks. Hence such shots are not encouraged at all."

    But when I clicked on the link to his gallery, I see this: http://www.pbase.com/chngpe01/baya_weaver&page=all

    Photographs of nesting birds not encouraged?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: A case of double standard

    seems like he means taking them with 50mm lenses r not advised, but can shoot with big big 500mm lens.

    is tat the double standard u mean?

  3. #3

    Default Re: A case of double standard

    Quote Originally Posted by joeyao
    Came across this thread recently: http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthrea...80#post2384380

    I quote from the moderator: "Taking of nesting birds are not encouraged at all and it is does more harm to the bird.
    Nesting birds are most vulnerable and any disturbance to the nest may force the parents to abandon the nest and even their chicks. Hence such shots are not encouraged at all."

    But when I clicked on the link to his gallery, I see this: http://www.pbase.com/chngpe01/baya_weaver&page=all

    Photographs of nesting birds not encouraged?
    Next time please quote in full context of the case you referring to. Missing information (which I highlighted in bold below) are always the cause of misunderstanding.

    Quote Originally Posted by chngpe01
    This must have been taken very close using a 50mm lens. Taking of nesting birds are not encouraged at all and it is does more harm to the bird.
    Nesting birds are most vulnerable and any disturbance to the nest may force the parents to abandon the nest and even their chicks. Hence such shots are not encouraged at all.

    I understand you are a newbie hence it is good to take note of this.

    CS together with other nature photography forum and birding groups and Nparks are drafting a code of ethics for nature photographers or photographers when taking pictures of birds and animal. We will be posting this soon in this forum.

    I will lock this thread
    Hope this clears up your "double standards" concern.

  4. #4
    Moderator chngpe01's Avatar
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    Default Re: A case of double standard

    Hi Joe

    I know you always have issues with me. And have been stalking me, my website etc. I guess it is probably out of jealousy etc or the desire to be a better nature photographer(than me) but unable to become one because of the lack of whatever it takes.

    In the early years I was actually kind enough to give you encouragement and comments when you posted your crappy pictures in CS but this is the type of things you give back.

    Actually the main reason why I have not been taking nature photo for quite some time was precisely of ppl like you.

    Anyway the key word is "not encouraged"

    Apparently you still do not understand nature photography enough to post this type of comments.

    1. In the recent picture in CS ( http://forums.clubsnap.com/showthread.php?t=215638 )the nest was taken with a 50mm lens imagine how close it is. Any photographer will know how close this is, not to mention an experienced nature photographer like you ( no wonder you still have a long way to go in nature photography )

    As a moderator and the TS being new, I took the responsibility to guide the TS, instead of doing nothing or worse still finding fault with the one(me) who try to create awareness to newbies


    As for my pictures:

    1. If you can read exif files those were taken more than 1 years ago and was using a 500mm lens with tele-converters too, (for newbies and some experienced nature photographer who do not know about lenses; this is a long super tele-photo lens that allow you to take from a further distance about 15m or more away for a small subject like a bird).

    Even that, since last year-till now, I have chosen not to take any pictures of Baya Weaver or nesting birds, because I learn from others about not being encouraged to take nesting birds. Though many have flocked to take nesting birds at various sites and trample the grounds at the various nature reserves in Singapore.


    Anyway, Thank You for opening this thread and giving me the opportunity to show my pbase site as well as reveal what type of person you are and I am.

    Post what you may here in your reply as I will and having been ignoring you since a quite some time ago.

    To the other readers, my stand is clear as with other nature forums, getting a guide on posting of nesting birds. ie. posting of nesting birds are "Not Encouraged"

    To many aspiring nature photographers take note that the welfare of the subject is more important than getting the image. And that in nature photography there are also the ugly side of it as you have just witness ie. the politics of nature photography.

    Have a good day (that does to you too Joe)

    Thank You

    PE
    Last edited by chngpe01; 15th August 2006 at 08:56 AM.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: A case of double standard

    chngpe01... my sympathy to you, to wake up early in the morning to read such accusations... must have woke up from the wrong side of the bed...
    Logging Off. "You have 2,631 messages stored, of a total 400 allowed." don't PM me.

  6. #6

    Default Re: A case of double standard

    Some jokers don't realise why they feel 'hate' or 'dislike' for others. They don't think enough, or they are just delusional with some mental imbalances plus low IQ. I recommend they check themselves into a mental hospital.
    Last edited by benedium; 15th August 2006 at 09:16 AM.

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    Default Re: A case of double standard

    Perhaps Joe didn't "see" the "50mm" or else I'm sure he could not have posted this.

    This could all be just a misunderstanding.
    Last edited by mervin; 15th August 2006 at 11:05 AM.
    06Jan2009, 1035hrs - My Oldest Friend has passed on............

  8. #8

    Default Re: A case of double standard

    CS is full of people who for whatever reasons, whether justified or not, stalk others for the purpose to try to ridicule and insult others.

    I wonder if CS has a policy to deal with these types?

  9. #9

    Default Re: A case of double standard

    Quote Originally Posted by student
    CS is full of people who for whatever reasons, whether justified or not, stalk others for the purpose to try to ridicule and insult others.

    I wonder if CS has a policy to deal with these types?
    Hope you don't mean me...?

  10. #10

    Default Re: A case of double standard

    Quote Originally Posted by benedium
    Hope you don't mean me...?

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

    Not at all!

    But there are types who do just that!

    Not so much to give alternative viewpoints/differring opinions/comments, but to denigrate others!

  11. #11
    Senior Member zac08's Avatar
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    Default Re: A case of double standard

    Hmmmm... this is a sad thing. Why dun some ppl understand the difference of shooting close-range and shooting from a distance??

    I normally would not encourage anyone trying to snap bird nests closer than 5m away. You may frighten them away and they may abandon the nest...
    Michael Lim
    My Flickr Site

  12. #12

    Default Re: A case of double standard

    From another POV, if the bird's nest is in your house, should we stand 15m away from it, or ignore it, or remove it?

    I once had a nest outside my door, didn't know wat to do with it.


    .

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    Default Re: A case of double standard

    Quote Originally Posted by AReality
    From another POV, if the bird's nest is in your house, should we stand 15m away from it, or ignore it, or remove it?

    I once had a nest outside my door, didn't know wat to do with it.


    .
    next time put in a cage, then feed it, and then train it to sing some songs... otherwise, ask them to spit more, u can have the bird's nest.
    Logging Off. "You have 2,631 messages stored, of a total 400 allowed." don't PM me.

  14. #14
    Senior Member zac08's Avatar
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    Default Re: A case of double standard

    Quote Originally Posted by AReality
    From another POV, if the bird's nest is in your house, should we stand 15m away from it, or ignore it, or remove it?

    I once had a nest outside my door, didn't know wat to do with it.


    .
    If it's IN YOUR HOUSE, then you decide what to do with it. But those in the wild, please do respect it's privacy and allow it it's space...
    Michael Lim
    My Flickr Site

  15. #15

    Default Re: A case of double standard

    Quote Originally Posted by zac08
    If it's IN YOUR HOUSE, then you decide what to do with it. But those in the wild, please do respect it's privacy and allow it it's space...
    It was there for a few days, then everything suddenly disappeared. Think someone removed it while cleaning the area.

    Should've kept it though.


    .

  16. #16
    Senior Member redstone's Avatar
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    Default Re: A case of double standard

    Still I don't think that thread should had been locked

  17. #17
    Senior Member jOhO's Avatar
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    Default Re: A case of double standard

    ahaha another idiot shooting himself in the foot...

    *yawn*

  18. #18
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    Default Re: A case of double standard

    Quote Originally Posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt
    next time put in a cage, then feed it, and then train it to sing some songs...
    And turn it into a Singapore Bird Idol?

  19. #19
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    Default Re: A case of double standard

    Quote Originally Posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt
    next time put in a cage, then feed it, and then train it to sing some songs... otherwise, ask them to spit more, u can have the bird's nest.
    hey i got bird's nest leh when i was young there was a huge bougainvillea tree (yes not bush!) at the corridor infront of my flat, then some humming birds came to nest. but later on the flat needed to be painted and the plant had to be cut, so i kept the nest lor, very interesting, all kinds of stuff in the nest

  20. #20

    Default Re: A case of double standard

    I never expected my comments to give rise to such strong emotions, reactions and wrath.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Ho
    Next time please quote in full context of the case you referring to. Missing information (which I highlighted in bold below) are always the cause of misunderstanding.



    Hope this clears up your "double standards" concern.
    I have read and re-read PE's comments. Perhaps my grasp of the English language is not so good but I did not find any link between this statement "This must have been taken very close using a 50mm lens." and the rest of his comments. I interpret this statement "This must have been taken very close using a 50mm lens." as a stand alone statement. Of course, I may be wrong. In the entire context of his comments, the statements "Taking of nesting birds are not encouraged at all and it is does more harm to the bird.
    Nesting birds are most vulnerable and any disturbance to the nest may force the parents to abandon the nest and even their chicks. Hence such shots are not encouraged at all."
    has to be read separately. If not he would have written "Taking of nesting birds up close or with short lenses are not encouraged at all and it is does more harm to the bird."

    Therefore I did not mislead in any way when I left out the statement "This must have been taken very close using a 50mm lens."

    Quote Originally Posted by chngpe01
    I know you always have issues with me. And have been stalking me, my website etc. I guess it is probably out of jealousy etc or the desire to be a better nature photographer(than me) but unable to become one because of the lack of whatever it takes.
    Only once regarding the BTBE location at Marina Cove. Avian photography is only a hobby to me and I certainly do not have any intention to usurp you. In fact a fellow avian photog commented recently that my skill is crap and that some of my pics looked so so because of technology. Jealousy? Nah...

    Quote Originally Posted by chngpe01
    In the early years I was actually kind enough to give you encouragement and comments when you posted your crappy pictures in CS but this is the type of things you give back.
    Thank you. Indeed your images had inspired me to better my skills.

    Quote Originally Posted by chngpe01
    Actually the main reason why I have not been taking nature photo for quite some time was precisely of ppl like you.
    Its a pity then. Your excellent images can inspire other budding avian photogs just as they had inspired me. Wow! a crappy photog like me caused you to stop your love for avian photography?

    Quote Originally Posted by chngpe01
    Anyway the key word is "not encouraged"
    Meaning we still can shoot nesting birds?

    Well, it is good to know that you are now convicted not to shoot any nesting birds be it far or near. As for me, my conviction is that it is all right to shoot them if you do not endanger them and not destroy the habitat in order to shoot them.

    If you truly from hence forth will not shoot nesting birds, I salute and apologise to you.

    For those who think nesting birds will be spooked because we get too close to them, here is something for you guys to ponder:

    Shot with 16-35mm lens: 4 White-Rumped Shama chicks


    All 4 chicks fledged and flew off
    Last edited by joeyao; 15th August 2006 at 10:07 PM.

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