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Thread: So what is a reasonable amt to pay ....?

  1. #41

    Default Re: So what is a reasonable amt to pay ....?

    From my own personal experiences, I think wedding, events and funeral/wakes are tough jobs and worth the amounts these photographers are asking here, coz I know it usually take me at least a couple of days "to recover" from such shoots, including those time I will spend to choose and develop images for these people.
    Like some ppl here said, there are ppl (including the rich) who will forgo any photography but given a chance they will want a photographer to cover their events, especially when they know they will be giving only an ang pow (and trust me, the ang pow will NEVER exceed $80!)!
    Now I know it is actually an expensive affair to engage a decent photographer for such events .....
    always the Light, .... always.

  2. #42

    Default Re: So what is a reasonable amt to pay ....?

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights
    if you really really want to give discount to them, decide it after seeing thier newly wed room.
    haha ..... that's really a good one

    I shot one of my close friend's wedding and dinner (literally 2 days + 1 night!), and decided to shoot for free coz he was like telling me how broke he was, and how much he needed for the wedding expenses, how much instalment is his NEW Colt costing him, how much it costs for his new wed room's renovation, how bad business is now, etc.. In the end all i received from him was an ang pow for $80, a lot of "thank you brother", "really appreciate it very much" - (all these no cost right?) and I have to give him a $100 ang pow for dinner (which I never actually did take completely), etc...
    I did feel a bit disappointed when i handed him 300 4R + albums at costs at his newly renovated house when he showed me his $5,000 hardcase A3 size Korean/Taiwan made customised wed coffee book by a local studio!
    Last edited by Canonised; 29th July 2006 at 05:01 PM.
    always the Light, .... always.

  3. #43
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: So what is a reasonable amt to pay ....?

    Quote Originally Posted by G-man
    Ok as an amateur, ........................... I hope for a day when photographers, like hotels, will band together and put a stop to all this undercutting.
    It wouldn't happen..

    Many photographers are very poor in business sense, and many refuse to admit it, if a photographer can't convince himself about pricing, how you expect him to convince couple that he is able to command a decent rate for his service?

    I hate people talk about passion on photography to me, like just trying to deceive me,
    yes, a photographer need passion to drive on, to persuade his vision, but can't just live on passion only.

    Nobody can use passion to maintain your family, pay housing loan, medical bills, utility bills, grocery expense, transport expense....etc.

    The next person talk to me about passion again, I will tell him that I need a lot of money to replenish my passion for photography. So, please pay me handsomely.
    Last edited by catchlights; 29th July 2006 at 04:55 PM.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  4. #44
    Senior Member G-man's Avatar
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    Default Re: So what is a reasonable amt to pay ....?

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights
    It wouldn't happen..

    Many photographers are very poor in business sense, and many refuse to admit it, if a photographer can't convince himself about pricing, how you expect him to convince couple that he is able to command a decent rate for his service?

    I hate people talk about passion on photography to me, like just trying to deceive me,
    yes, a photographer need passion to drive on, to persuade his vision, but can't just live on passion only.

    Nobody can use passion to maintain your family, pay housing loan, medical bills, utility bills, grocery expense, transport expense....etc.

    The next person talk to me about passion again, I will tell him that I need a lot of money to replenish my passion for photography. So, please pay me handsomely.
    I agree. Passion is one thing. Passion can sustain one in hard times and provide the driving force needed to weather the tough times BUT passion alone cannot put food on the table.

    It's sad to see how the creative industry is going through the signs of straw clutching, slashing prices to meet unreasonable demands. I for one hope it doesn't come to that for me one day.

  5. #45

    Default Re: So what is a reasonable amt to pay ....?

    Blessed is him who are gifted in talent of Creativity and Innovation.

    Prosperity is him who are profess in Marketing and Sales.

    A High Achiever is him who is GOOD at Both


    - - - -

    A man who play with his cameras and toys is still a Child-at-heart, who enjoy his little world of self discovery and self expression. He is spending time talking about the next best camera models upgrades he is planning, and hanging out with Buddies he calls friends that share his little private joy and collections. Top-of-the-Models and Big Guns lenses are in his Bags, but these never really put to good use or ever see the lights, after a few outings.


    A man uses his cameras for money is a craftman and a 'hard' labourer, for he see his tool of his trade merely a handy gadget that get the work done in resonably good time and effeciently. He rarely make any cameras or equipement purchases, unless his works is paying for it. More often than not, He uses the semi-pro models or 'amatuer models' to make his dough, which are more than enough 'power' to do the job, and get the Job done professionally.

    Submitting and winning photo competitions are rarely his interests, unless he knew the Competition is an open and international Ones, whereby international well-knowned judges are on the panel. For he knew it is better making some money from the time spend shooting for their loyal customers, than shooting for Organisers awarding winning entries for trigger-happy photogs shooting over-rated portraits of 'sons & daugthers sitting on their grand father's laps' and 'childrens playing in the water fountains and pools'.



    Nick Goh | www.nickgoh.com
    Last edited by Enchanted; 29th July 2006 at 06:07 PM.

  6. #46

    Default Re: So what is a reasonable amt to pay ....?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canonised
    haha ..... that's really a good one

    I shot one of my close friend's wedding and dinner (literally 2 days + 1 night!), and decided to shoot for free coz he was like telling me how broke he was, and how much he needed for the wedding expenses, how much instalment is his NEW Colt costing him, how much it costs for his new wed room's renovation, how bad business is now, etc.. In the end all i received from him was an ang pow for $80, a lot of "thank you brother", "really appreciate it very much" - (all these no cost right?) and I have to give him a $100 ang pow for dinner (which I never actually did take completely), etc...
    I did feel a bit disappointed when i handed him 300 4R + albums at costs at his newly renovated house when he showed me his $5,000 hardcase A3 size Korean/Taiwan made customised wed coffee book by a local studio!
    You're not the first, and definitely won't be the last. There are lots of kind hearted souls who don't mind helping the "needy", only to find that they don't "need" it as much as they make themselves appear.

    $80/hr is freelance rate for events. Shoot, minimal/zero processing, burn CD for client. Wedding is a 10 hour event at least. Up to 16 hours for some. For a 10 hour wedding, that's already $800. For a 16 hour one, that's $1280. I don't understand how people can even bundle coffee table, 4R prints, customised albums at 800, do DI work, send for print, sort out photos, arrange albums etc etc. And no, I'm not talking abt equipment depreciation/wear and tear, operating costs, time and stuff. Just talking abt the rate alone.

    What I understand is after some time, these photogs will realise that their photos aren't really appreciated, and then move on to other better-paying photography jobs. New people will enter the industry to fill the gap, charge the low rate, and move on after they find the low-profitability. And the brides will continue to enjoy the same price level. If photogs don't come together and keep using the low-price 'weapon' to close the deal.
    Last edited by shinken; 29th July 2006 at 06:11 PM.

  7. #47

    Default Re: So what is a reasonable amt to pay ....?

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights
    agreed with you.

    So people, don't listen to them when they tell you no budget, don't ever accept a $500 wedding, you sure will bang your head to the wall when you see the groom come with a Rolls to fatch the bride, if you really really want to give discount to them, decide it after seeing thier newly wed room.

    nope, no discounts, unless its a uniform planned, does ppl who ask for discounts, are just trying their luck.

  8. #48

    Default Re: So what is a reasonable amt to pay ....?

    I do know of AD photographers charging abt $3-400 whole day. No prints only CD.
    Work is reasonably good and knows how to pose couple and guests, is polite, etc.

    So my point is, theres no 'standard' fee or even related to quality.
    Its all up to individual. Spoil mkt? Well, if my Sis is getting married and on budget, I'll still recommend him. Simply because I know what he can deliver and paying $3000 does not mean the photos will come out any better.

    Anyway, some studios show portfolios where the actual photographers probably left years ago. What u see may not be what you get...

  9. #49
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    Default Re: So what is a reasonable amt to pay ....?

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights
    I

    Many photographers are very poor in business sense, and many refuse to admit it, if a photographer can't convince himself about pricing, how you expect him to convince couple that he is able to command a decent rate for his service?
    any 'course' on marketing ?

    I sux at it

  10. #50
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: So what is a reasonable amt to pay ....?

    Quote Originally Posted by firestone
    I do know of AD photographers charging abt $3-400 whole day. No prints only CD.
    Work is reasonably good and knows how to pose couple and guests, is polite, etc.

    So my point is, theres no 'standard' fee or even related to quality.
    Its all up to individual. Spoil mkt? Well, if my Sis is getting married and on budget, I'll still recommend him. Simply because I know what he can deliver and paying $3000 does not mean the photos will come out any better.

    Anyway, some studios show portfolios where the actual photographers probably left years ago. What u see may not be what you get...
    To a certain point, you are right.

    but if you think in this way, for $3~400 for a whole day wedding, how many weddings he need to make a living?

    If any photographers shoot weddings after weddings, you will find all the shots are the same, will he be a happy photographer? no, I don't think so, cos I been thru it, and the works will show also.

    some photographers don't mind doing it, even after so many years, why?

    cos like this don't have to do sales, don't have to meet couples, don't have to perpare samples, the best things, don't have to find new customers, and don't have to think about new ideas, what for?

    every couples are the same, during the shoot, just tell the couple stand there look at the camera, smile! now look at each other, smile! now look at the sky, smile! now look at the ground, smile! see, what so difficult, like this already have 4 shots liao! sitting down on the chair, do the same thing again, see, another 4 shots!

    anyway, many couples still want this kind of photos, normally the bride to be just tell the photographer this: You shoot my friend's wedding and I'm her jia mei for her wedding last year, the photos are very nice, now I getting married this year, I want you shoot my wedding also, I want the sample photos like my friend, yes, all the same, including the price!
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  11. #51

    Default Re: So what is a reasonable amt to pay ....?

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights
    but if you think in this way, for $3~400 for a whole day wedding, how many weddings he need to make a living?

    some photographers don't mind doing it, even after so many years, why?...

    every couples are the same, during the shoot, just tell the couple stand there look at the camera, smile! now look at each other, smile! now look at the sky, smile! now look at the ground, smile! see, what so difficult, like this already have 4 shots liao! sitting down on the chair, do the same thing again, see, another 4 shots!
    ...

    I want you shoot my wedding also, I want the sample photos like my friend, yes, all the same, including the price![/B][/I]
    Catchlights I understand the problems, but I'm just stating a fact..
    I agree it may not be the way to go but for some it's regular income..
    Just want to wake up any newbie who may be all starry-eyed...

  12. #52

    Default Re: So what is a reasonable amt to pay ....?

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights
    anyway, many couples still want this kind of photos, normally the bride to be just tell the photographer this: You shoot my friend's wedding and I'm her jia mei for her wedding last year, the photos are very nice, now I getting married this year, I want you shoot my wedding also, I want the sample photos like my friend, yes, all the same, including the price!
    Yes, there are many who just wants a record of that day..
    Won't care abt arty creative shots. Raise the price any higher and they'll get their friend who just bought a shiny new DSLR to shoot instead...

  13. #53
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    Default Re: So what is a reasonable amt to pay ....?

    Quote Originally Posted by Belle&Sebastain
    so how many weddings do you want to do a year? how much money is worth your time?
    Where do you think your images stand? What is your prespection of photography in general?

    Are you tan chek? or passionate? or just love the event so much money is never a factor to shoot?

    there are just so many factors involved.

    i wish i could charge $1500 an hour, shoot 20-30 weddings a year. Maybe i need to move to a market that will pay this prices. Many talented professionals will move on to places where their worth is: Clang,Wesley etc.

    Not saying i have reached that level but i aspire to. There will be a fallout with the best talents in singapore unable to sustain their growth with their prices. Either they move on to commerial jobs (the Pond) or overseas to further their business.
    Tell you already.....they are not in our industry, they will not know. Until one becomes a full time photographer and make photography as a living then they will feel the pinch.

    Why only photographers are affected? Simple. Everyone wants to be like Mike (Micheal Jordan). To jump from free throw line and dunk the basketball into the net. Anyone can hold a camera and shoot but how good they are is another thing. Actually for us, we are not afraid if the rates are lower or even free but why should that even happend in the first place?

    It does not mean if those who have less experience cannot charge the same price as us but are you all able to deliver it? That is the most important factor. As long as any of you can make the couples happy, I don't see the point why can you all start charging premium rates $1,800 and above.

    No matter how poor a couple is, they still can afford a photographer that charges premium rates. It's all on how you all speak to them. You will be surprise what they are capable of. I have couples telling me all sorts of stories about how low their budget is but at the end of the day i found out one couple was spending $1,200 per table at Grand Hyatt and had 35 tables. Plus I found out they spent $8,000 for their pre wedding. Guess what was their asking price......? $450.00! At first I thought I heard wrongly but they asked me whether it was possible. I just smile at them and say NOT in this world. Maybe planet Mars....

    They saw my work and was comparing with another photographer. As usual they told me this photographer can shoot for $450.00. I told them go ahead with him. 2 weeks later they called me and say he is not free.....for the shoot. Wahahaha......I nearly fell of my chair.....when they told me that. After all that.....they agreed to my $2000+ package. So funny all this couples go to great lengths to find the cheapest and best but there is no such package that exist. (even if there is, then this photographer must be a sucker)

    Quality = $$$$$$$$
    Quantity = $

  14. #54

    Default Re: So what is a reasonable amt to pay ....?

    http://www.singaporebrides.com/forum...tml?1154216288


    look, more problems with clients and photographers.......


    at this rate and this kind of works, seriously you are making a lost everytime you shoot. not only phyiscal lost (money) but emotional lost (negative clients) and stress (motivational lost).


    I avoid clients like this seriously

  15. #55

    Default Re: So what is a reasonable amt to pay ....?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canonised
    So much have been commented on "paying peanuts get monkey's standard" on wedding/events photography ......
    So what is a reasonable amount to pay "semi-pro or self-proclaimed pro" for such events .... of course we are not referring to the real Professional or ppl in the trade but those part-timers/weekend photographers, etc..? Of course we are also not talking about the standard or quality of the photographers ...
    $50 an hour? $80? $100? $200? reasonable? (let's be realistic..)
    http://www.singaporebrides.com/forum...tml?1154145452

    the whole story to this thread.

    the couple even email us on the pretext of engaging our services but wanted us to comment on the photography instead, very exterme type of couple, i felt bad at first for the couple but not anymore.

    The real problems here is how some clients precieve the value of photography.

    If everyone just hamtan a cheap rate to attact this type of clients, this is what you get.

    At the end of the day, is very demoralising to shoot for this type of couples if you are passionate about your craft. Just one couple can spoil your experience as a photographer.
    Last edited by Belle&Sebastain; 30th July 2006 at 09:09 AM.

  16. #56

    Default Re: So what is a reasonable amt to pay ....?

    Quote Originally Posted by firestone
    Yes, there are many who just wants a record of that day..
    Won't care abt arty creative shots. Raise the price any higher and they'll get their friend who just bought a shiny new DSLR to shoot instead...

    fine, but there are also ppl who want the moon with earth prices, look at my last 2 posts.

    Seriously, everyone justs ones a record of events for their speical day.... but someone with only their pictures, some wants a record of family and friends, some people wants special moments.

    when the bar is risen, do you think most people want an 'old' product? Like photography in the 80's and 90's?

    Take handphones for example, how many are still using a nokia 8250?

    When everyone look around for photography, they are already exposed to a wide range of products. Most people want designer looks for a cheap price. If you want to cater for that, not a problem (issue). Make sure you have the balls to follow though this type of clients. They have super high expectations on super low budget.

    When my clients come to me, i show them my products. I say to them, this is me, this is what i do, if you like my works, its for you. If you want more than what i do, i'm not the photographer for you.

    My clients are usually the understanding type. I hope so as i screen them myself with my assistant. If we find a couple who do not understand our work, we will not take their business.

  17. #57
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    Default Re: So what is a reasonable amt to pay ....?

    Quote Originally Posted by Belle&Sebastain
    http://www.singaporebrides.com/forum...tml?1154216288


    look, more problems with clients and photographers.......


    at this rate and this kind of works, seriously you are making a lost everytime you shoot. not only phyiscal lost (money) but emotional lost (negative clients) and stress (motivational lost).


    I avoid clients like this seriously

    yes yes yes. i should have known better.

  18. #58

    Default Re: So what is a reasonable amt to pay ....?

    Whether it is a fact of life or not, I believe photographers who charge for their work has to think some thing through. Gilbert, I'm borrowing some of the stuff you taught me ya?

    1) Think through pricing.
    Consider equipment investment.
    Consider necessary cost for replacement.
    Consider recurring expenses (e.g. transport. It is impossible to take bus when shoot starts at 3 am)
    Consider the cost of your package (not to the bride, but how much the stuff in the packages cost you)
    Consider time necessary to deliver a package (pre plus post wedding)
    Consider your value (if you feel ur worth $5/hr, fine. To some, it's income, I parrot)

    For the more reflective, think through:
    Consider where you want to go after you made a name as $400/day photog, and where you wanna go from here, and how to go there.
    Consider you perceive your worth, and how pricing influence clients to perceive your worth.
    Consider how much you've been through to hone your skills to be able to deliver a wedding.
    Most of all, consider whether you are a camera man, or photographer. (nothing wrong with either)

    2) For those on the road:
    Consider client education. Most people are basically reasonable people. I parrot, they just didn't know photography can cost so much. But the industry bears part of the responsibility as there are so many who offer very low levels to give them the idea (whether it is a fact or not, it is unhealthy for the industry). Consider how you want to educate your clients, and what you want to educate them on. At the end of the day, it's about what photography is worth, what you are worth.

    My last session ended up with the bride repeating over and over "I don't know why you charge so low". I assure you, compared to many photogs I know, my price is not low. Relatively of course.

  19. #59

    Default Re: So what is a reasonable amt to pay ....?

    Quote Originally Posted by drumma
    yes yes yes. i should have known better.

    hi drumma, i dare say that there is no problems in your photography whatsoever. Maybe the next time, draft a written contact so to avoid misundertandings like this. Some people are like sharks and when they smell a good offer, they will jump at it.

    Sounds familar, if you attract clients that are so resourceful in tracking you down, cheap and good. Look at what they can do with when their feel they are not getting their worth.

  20. #60

    Default Re: So what is a reasonable amt to pay ....?

    Quote Originally Posted by shinken
    Whether it is a fact of life or not, I believe photographers who charge for their work has to think some thing through. Gilbert, I'm borrowing some of the stuff you taught me ya?

    1) Think through pricing.
    Consider equipment investment.
    Consider necessary cost for replacement.
    Consider recurring expenses (e.g. transport. It is impossible to take bus when shoot starts at 3 am)
    Consider the cost of your package (not to the bride, but how much the stuff in the packages cost you)
    Consider time necessary to deliver a package (pre plus post wedding)
    Consider your value (if you feel ur worth $5/hr, fine. To some, it's income, I parrot)

    For the more reflective, think through:
    Consider where you want to go after you made a name as $400/day photog, and where you wanna go from here, and how to go there.
    Consider you perceive your worth, and how pricing influence clients to perceive your worth.
    Consider how much you've been through to hone your skills to be able to deliver a wedding.
    Most of all, consider whether you are a camera man, or photographer. (nothing wrong with either)

    2) For those on the road:
    Consider client education. Most people are basically reasonable people. I parrot, they just didn't know photography can cost so much. But the industry bears part of the responsibility as there are so many who offer very low levels to give them the idea (whether it is a fact or not, it is unhealthy for the industry). Consider how you want to educate your clients, and what you want to educate them on. At the end of the day, it's about what photography is worth, what you are worth.

    My last session ended up with the bride repeating over and over "I don't know why you charge so low". I assure you, compared to many photogs I know, my price is not low. Relatively of course.
    thanks, whatever i learnt from, i learnt from the best, words of wisdom passed down to me, to help myself and other fellow photogs.

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