LX 1 Vs. F30 Again!

[RenegaeDing]

Yap, I'm another one of those people torn between these two great little cams.

What I would really like to see is some indoor and night shots with the LX1 (handheld, without flash) and their 100% crops. Is there anyone who can help me with this?


Also, I really, really, really prefer the LX1, but was just wondering if there is any point to having sharper pics if I'll need to "dull" them later using some noise reduction program. Still a noob at photography, so I would really appreciate comments from those with more experience.


I also understand from the previous posts that noise should not always be considered bad, but I'm really impressed by F30's clean pics. *sigh*

[metallilan]

Originally Posted by RenegaeDing Yap, I'm another one of those people torn between these two great little cams. What I would really like to see is some indoor and night shots with the LX1 (handheld, without flash) and their 100% crops. Is there anyone who can help me with this? Also, I really, really, really prefer the LX1, but was just wondering if there is any point to having sharper pics if I'll need to "dull" them later using some noise reduction program. Still a noob at photography, so I would really appreciate comments from those with more experience. I also understand from the previous posts that noise should not always be considered bad, but I'm really impressed by F30's clean pics. *sigh*

Well that depends on what you want out your camera. Let put it this way...

F30. Excellent for low light. If you like to party, go out at night and ___________( insert anything else ) at night, well then this camera is for you. I'm not so sure what else is so unique about F30 than fuji's legendary noise reduction in their compact cams.

Lx1/Lx2. Something unique that your average run of the mill cam. Wide angle capture, wide screen, RAW ; the equivalent of film in the digital era, Image stabilzation, leica lens and ____________ ( insert good features here )

Im sure the folks here with Lx1's and soon to be Lx2 owners will help out =) I'd take the Lx2 although the noise is abit of a bother to me, maybe the Lx2 looks more professional graded than the F30, but that's just my take.

[ExplorerZ]

yup, nothing much specially about the f30, but you gonna luv the low noise as a digi compact

[EOS10D]

resolving power is the highest amongst all digi compact

see dpreview.com
"........

Resolution
Resolution is up with the best cameras in this class (with the notable exception of the Fuji F10/F11, which still rules the roost), and the results are remarkably clean for an ultra compact. As you move towards the very highest frequencies there is a very small ..........

[micah4]

there's a discussion on this same topic at the Fuji forum too:
http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthrea...34#post2319134

...there's an interesting point about the LX1's wide angle, discussed there. u might like to read it.

[S11loop]

Originally Posted by EOS10D resolving power is the highest amongst all digi compact see dpreview.com "........ Resolution Resolution is up with the best cameras in this class (with the notable exception of the Fuji F10/F11, which still rules the roost), and the results are remarkably clean for an ultra compact. As you move towards the very highest frequencies there is a very small ..........

yes , resolving power ! Had already done print up of A3 size from the F30 , simple blow away by the quality ! Told friends and people who view the photo that its taken with a digital compact pns cam , people tot i am joking Shall try A2 size printing next .

[RenegaeDing]

Thanks for all the input, guys!

I went down to Funan today with my friend to take a look at the F30. She's very impressed and will buy it from another friend of mine at $538 (casing and 1gig 'xd' card). I'm so tempted, man! It's beautiful and cheap!

I'm planning to wait for the LX 2 to be released before I decide. I really would like full manual controls, 16:9 and raw, but the F30 is sooooo sweeet. I'm especially impressed with S11loop's restaurant food shots. I like a bit of contrast and saturation too, so it's good to know that the F30 can produce such pics with a bit of ps.


Nobody quite answered my question though, about whether it makes any sense to have a sharp pic from a good Leica lens, only to "dull" it later with noise reduction software. Any thoughts on that? Any chance, perhaps that noise reduction software will become advanced enough to clean up sharp pics without dulling them too much?

*sigh* Wish I could afford both.

[chrysoveil]

I was in the same predicament as you earlier this year. LX1 vs F11. I chose Finepix F11 in the end. Good resolution, best low noise CDD in class. No regrets. It has all the characteristics of an ultimate compact digicam. The one you'll bring to travel, concerts, restaurants, parties etc.

[RenegaeDing]

Just took a look at the press release for the LX2. Truly drool-worthy.

[tomcat]

Originally Posted by RenegaeDing Nobody quite answered my question though, about whether it makes any sense to have a sharp pic from a good Leica lens, only to "dull" it later with noise reduction software. Any thoughts on that? Any chance, perhaps that noise reduction software will become advanced enough to clean up sharp pics without dulling them too much? *sigh* Wish I could afford both.

I have both the D-Lux 2 (the 'richer twin brother' of the LX1) and the F30.

It will ultimately boils down to whether you want a camera that can take good high ISO pics or one that has all the bells and whistles like 16:9 aspect, RAW, full manual mode, OIS, etc. This is because the LX1 really sucks at noise and can be noisy in the shadow areas even at ISO 100 eg. when the foreground is under-exposed because of the sky in outdoor shots. If the dynamic range is less extreme, noise is not a problem (at low ISO) and the results can be really outstanding if the composition is rght.

A lot of expectations have been laid on the Leica lens of the LX1. It is truthfully a good lens but not a great one and certainly not one that would live up to the true Leica quality and standard. The only 'great' Leica lens in the Panasonic range of Lumix digicams is the one on the LC1 which unfortunately is already obsolete. In my opinion and from my own experience with the 2 digicams, the lens of the LX1 is only slightly better (sharper) than the one on the F30 but not significantly so.

The other feature that has a lot of expectations from potential buyers is OIS. Users of cameras with OIS would however very fast realise that OIS is only good for taking photos of stationary subjects in good light as it only helps to reduce camera shake and not motion blur. To freeze motion, the only way is to maintain a high enough shutter speed and if the lighting is not strong enough, then the ISO would have to be set higher if the flash is not to be used. With a LX1, all the OIS in the world will not help if the subject is moving even slightly in a dimly lit environment if higher level of noise is not acceptable. Even if noise is acceptable, the highest ISO setting on the LX1 is only 400 as compared to 3200 on the F30. I once took my D-Lux 2 on an overseas trip and tried to use it in twilight conditions hoping that the OIS would help. None of the photos was acceptable (even with subsequent noise reduction in subsequent post-processing).

[RenegaeDing]

Originally Posted by tomcat In my opinion and from my own experience with the 2 digicams, the lens of the LX1 is only slightly better (sharper) than the one on the F30 but not significantly so.

Hey, thanks! Sounds like I really should stick to the F30. I've been thinking about what bothers me when I do post processing. Usually it's noise, then low-sat/low contrast. I think for myself, it might be better to start with a cleaner pic, then boost color and contrast later (and crop to 16:9 ). With the LX1, I will have to deal with the noise first.

What do you think about the LX2? Any hope that their new Venus III engine will "significantly" reduce noise like their press release says?

[tomcat]

Originally Posted by RenegaeDing Hey, thanks! Sounds like I really should stick to the F30. I've been thinking about what bothers me when I do post processing. Usually it's noise, then low-sat/low contrast. I think for myself, it might be better to start with a cleaner pic, then boost color and contrast later (and crop to 16:9 ). With the LX1, I will have to deal with the noise first. What do you think about the LX2? Any hope that their new Venus III engine will "significantly" reduce noise like their press release says?

The LX2 is not out yet so it would be hard to comment on the actual performance of the digicam. Some of the comments about noise in the sample mages posted have not been very optimistic though.

There are a few digicams eg Sony T30, currently available on the market that also claim to have high ISO performance but the noise performance still does not seem to be as good as the F11/F30. This could be because they all just depend on in-camera noise reduction to achieve the 'low noise' look at high ISO while Fuji actually use a large 1/1.7" new SuperCCD HR VI that has higher ISO sensitivity than normal CCD sensors, as well as in-camera image processing with Real Photo Processor.

By the way, the dpreview of F30 is just out 'fresh from the oven'....
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilmf30/

And Phil Askey's conclusion is..
...the F30 is far and away the best low light compact camera on the market today, bar none. It's the perfect 'social' camera for the DSLR owner who doesn't want to lug all his or her gear to parties, and it is - in expert hands - capable of superb results in any light. I would even go as far as to suggest - funds permitting - getting one for low light work even if you already own a camera you use for daylight shooting... So then, Highly Recommended unless you rarely shoot indoors or at night.

[micah4]

yes...can't go wrong with the F30. But really curious how the LX2 is going to perform.

[RenegaeDing]

Thanks to everyone who helped me make up my mind.

Just got my F30 tonight. It really is a sweet little thing.


I'm still keen on the LX 2, but will wait to see how the reviews of the camera turns out. If the noise issue is reduced somewhat as promised, I can always sell off my F30 then and get the LX 2. I figured it would be good to have some real experience with BOTH camera to know what I really prefer.

[Astin]

Like u and many others, I also went through the same comparison, between LX1 and F30. The ideal way would be to use LX1 for outdoor sunny shots and F30 for indoor lowlight shots. I finally chose the F30, as I figured out a good sensor is more important than a good lens.

[micah4]

now, all panny has to do is to buy the SuperCCD technology from foojee and incorporate it into the LX3 that's coming after the LX2 !!!!!!!!!!

[RenegaeDing]

Originally Posted by micah4 now, all panny has to do is to buy the SuperCCD technology from foojee and incorporate it into the LX3 that's coming after the LX2 !!!!!!!!!!

That would be my dream machine

[yanyewkay]

Originally Posted by metallilan Well that depends on what you want out your camera. Let put it this way... F30. Excellent for low light. If you like to party, go out at night and ___________( insert anything else ) at night, well then this camera is for you. I'm not so sure what else is so unique about F30 than fuji's legendary noise reduction in their compact cams.

Fuji deal with noise right in the design of the sensor. The SuperCCD already captures significantly less noise compared to simliar sized sensors using the rectangle grid array. It isn't so much of "noise reduction" that did the magic but there already is a lot less noise to start with.

Originally Posted by metallilan Lx1/Lx2. Something unique that your average run of the mill cam. Wide angle capture, wide screen, RAW ; the equivalent of film in the digital era, Image stabilzation, leica lens and ____________ ( insert good features here )

wide angle available only in 16:9 format I believe? If you were to try to print that photo in 4R, you'll get the sides cropped and you'll end up with a 36mm equivalent again. RAW files will just give you another set of post processing headaches.

Originally Posted by metallilan Im sure the folks here with Lx1's and soon to be Lx2 owners will help out =) I'd take the Lx2 although the noise is abit of a bother to me, maybe the Lx2 looks more professional graded than the F30, but that's just my take.

exterior looks does nothing to help produce better pictures. An award winning looks doesn't gurantee award winning photos.

[S11loop]

Originally Posted by RenegaeDing Thanks for all the input, guys! I went down to Funan today with my friend to take a look at the F30. She's very impressed and will buy it from another friend of mine at $538 (casing and 1gig 'xd' card). I'm so tempted, man! It's beautiful and cheap! I'm planning to wait for the LX 2 to be released before I decide. I really would like full manual controls, 16:9 and raw, but the F30 is sooooo sweeet. I'm especially impressed with S11loop's restaurant food shots. I like a bit of contrast and saturation too, so it's good to know that the F30 can produce such pics with a bit of ps. Nobody quite answered my question though, about whether it makes any sense to have a sharp pic from a good Leica lens, only to "dull" it later with noise reduction software. Any thoughts on that? Any chance, perhaps that noise reduction software will become advanced enough to clean up sharp pics without dulling them too much? *sigh* Wish I could afford both.

The LX2 looks pro with all the switches and stuff and I love the 28mm 16:9 .... leica lens ? To be frank , ask yrself if u can tell the difference between the f30 and the so called leica lens from this compact LX2 camera .... the f30 once focus precisely is sharp no joke .

If they can have a LX2 casing with f30 stuff inside then I comfirm buy again ( so this is a dream seriously speaking so i wake myself up and brought a f30 at last ... hahaha happily ever after )

[ExplorerZ]

even with leica lens, also not much use to me... if the shot turn out noisy, noise reduction will be applied and the picture become soft again even with the sharpest lens it still pretty pointless. but its good if you can maintain low noise shooting at the lowest iso, which is normally not the case unless you are using it 100% outdoor during sunny day