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Thread: Cries of foul play for photographer

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Cries of foul play for photographer

    found the site for the pictures

    http://www.paulkopeikingallery.com/a...erg/index0.htm

    truly heartwrenching, from the pictures the photographer captured what seems like genuine pain and fear in the children

    just providing some context to the discussion here, but maybe some will be interested to purchase the pictures

  2. #22

    Default Re: Cries of foul play for photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin
    found the site for the pictures

    http://www.paulkopeikingallery.com/a...erg/index0.htm

    truly heartwrenching, from the pictures the photographer captured what seems like genuine pain and fear in the children

    just providing some context to the discussion here, but maybe some will be interested to purchase the pictures
    like what i said, with all the photos right smack in front of your face right now, it is a totally disgusting sight. some people are just not sensitive enough to detect this sadistic notion from just one picture in the first site.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Cries of foul play for photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by satay16
    like what i said, with all the photos right smack in front of your face right now, it is a totally disgusting sight. some people are just not sensitive enough to detect this sadistic notion from just one picture in the first site.
    i really wonder if the right to artistic expression extends to the purposeful inflictment of fear on other individuals, be they children or adult ...

    and how is it today that such acts are supported without second considerations through very real actions such as purchasing the product of such acts ...
    Last edited by eikin; 12th July 2006 at 07:52 PM.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Cries of foul play for photographer

    Parents make their kids cry all the time, just for fun. Remember the time when your parents liked to say they are gonna leave you at some relatives house just cos you're enjoying your time there so much? I've seen kids cry to that. I believe lots of parents do that.
    Think about it.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Cries of foul play for photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin
    found the site for the pictures

    http://www.paulkopeikingallery.com/a...erg/index0.htm

    truly heartwrenching, from the pictures the photographer captured what seems like genuine pain and fear in the children

    just providing some context to the discussion here, but maybe some will be interested to purchase the pictures

    Thanks for sharing the link, after going through it, I want to make the photog B*T*H cry and I can pay her $USD 4500 for it, and probably throw in GST......For those who does not agree, what is the type of reaction you see than?
    Last edited by Sjourn; 12th July 2006 at 08:02 PM.
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  6. #26
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    Default Re: Cries of foul play for photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by benedium
    Parents make their kids cry all the time, just for fun. Remember the time when your parents liked to say they are gonna leave you at some relatives house just cos you're enjoying your time there so much? I've seen kids cry to that. I believe lots of parents do that.
    Think about it.

    ...yes, i agree. but that is for the sake of discipline and not gaining monetary award for it right? I feel it is a different moral issue with the same act done.
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  7. #27

    Default Re: Cries of foul play for photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by benedium
    Parents make their kids cry all the time, just for fun. Remember the time when your parents liked to say they are gonna leave you at some relatives house just cos you're enjoying your time there so much? I've seen kids cry to that. I believe lots of parents do that.
    Think about it.
    sorry, but kids crying because of inevitable issues is different from kids being forced to cry unnaturally. and let me tell you something, these stupid photographers are one of the main contributors to the evil existance of paedophiles.

    these pictures satisfy their hunger for seeing children in discomfort.

    they like to see them cry.

    they like to see them suffer.

    and like drugs and pornography, they get hooked.

    every year, because of them, children get molested, played with, and some are tortured. this slashes a scar in these innocent children, and many times, it leaves permenant damages when they grow up, like physcological unstabilty, OCD, and many many much more social problems.

    please, i beg you, please be able to see the much larger picture of what all this photos really creates. what i just stated is just one of the serious implications it creates.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Cries of foul play for photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by Sjourn
    ...yes, i agree. but that is for the sake of discipline and not gaining monetary award for it right? I feel it is a different moral issue with the same act done.
    hope i don't make anyone sound too cheap. i think it's sad that in the name of art (and of course money) any artist resorts to the search of the exotic, the banned and the immoral, to satisfy the media-abused consumers who are forever searching for the next sensational excitement after the last one. there will always be a big market for art that shocks, because it is contemporary, cool, avant garde to produce shocking works. that's the reality of today's consumer economy.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Cries of foul play for photographer

    Here's one question to ponder, if she had kids, would she use them instead?
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  10. #30
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    Default Re: Cries of foul play for photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by Sjourn
    Here's one question to ponder, if she had kids, would she use them instead?
    she did, that's what's disturbing about it also

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Cries of foul play for photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by benedium
    Parents make their kids cry all the time, just for fun. Remember the time when your parents liked to say they are gonna leave you at some relatives house just cos you're enjoying your time there so much? I've seen kids cry to that. I believe lots of parents do that.
    Think about it.
    i have to disagree. it's not just for fun, if parents find having kids crying in fear is fun there's something really wrong with those parents. at least i know my parents don't do that just for fun, and my relatives don't do it for fun.

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Cries of foul play for photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin
    she did, that's what's disturbing about it also

    oh... , than I leave it to people to discern her act or impression as an artist, whatever....
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  13. #33
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    Default Re: Cries of foul play for photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by benedium
    Parents make their kids cry all the time, just for fun. Remember the time when your parents liked to say they are gonna leave you at some relatives house just cos you're enjoying your time there so much? I've seen kids cry to that. I believe lots of parents do that.
    Think about it.

    I am glad that I didn't have such un-loving parents.

    I have never come across any parent that would think that little of their children to treat their feelings like that either.

    What ever excuse is given, this is selfish minded of the adult; to achive what ever their goals.

    And no thought for the childs feelings.

    And so the ignore list grows.
    Time, is an effortless construction :)

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Cries of foul play for photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by yqt
    Yes, there'll always be 2 camps to every issue and I respect you views. Just so happen that we're on opp. side on this issue.
    The issue here which I can't stand is that this is done to a child with the intension of fulfilling a personal interest as well as to make money at the expense of a child who have no clue at all what is happening. Do you think it would be so diff. for her to get professional child models/talents to do this personal project of hers? Do you think she could not afford the cost of the child models/talents
    When I cane my child ( happen twice ) it is because I have to impress upon him the importance of the error that he have done. Not to fulfill my own interest nor to earn any money out of the caning.
    If I were to leave my child alone in public/the company of strangers ( which, luckily for me, I did not need to do ), it is to instill in him some fear so that they will not wander off on their own when we go out.
    Maybe it is because I'm a parent, maybe because my kids have cause me to become a big softy, but the way it looks, at least to me, it is just a photographer fulfilling her own desire to do something diff, to make a PERSONAL point, to stand out but have fail to consider the feelings of the child. After all she did said that she did not say anything to the child except " hello, good bye and maybe I'm sorry". This is cold man.
    Even if I'm doing a paying shoot, where the child model/talent knows what to expect and is paid to it, I'll not put fear into a child.
    I have been able to get the job done without resorting to making a child feeling fearful.
    This is what bothers me. You cane your child in the belief that it is for his own good. Some people will say it is wrong to do that but that is what they believe and it doesn't make them right or wrong, just different. So it is the same in this instance, people who are not actually there made a decision who is right and wrong. Making a child cry is another gray area as caning a child. You did it twice... some may do it more often... and some for every little mistake... who can say at which point it becomes right and wrong. So I would agree that it is wrong to abuse or terrorize a child but in this situation, people see the photo and made an assumption. Feelings can be exaggerated in a photo (I believe it was mentioned as well). Most wedding photographers know this and instinct to shoot smiling faces and enhance emotional scene even though on average the wedding is actually boring. And taking a lollipop away and giving it back will hardly traumatize a child. So it was made not specifically to the benefit of a child, it may not be right to some but it is not entirely wrong to others. Based on the context that I think has happened, I would need more concrete proof that something bad actually happened and someone was actually abused before I would agree that what she did is wrong.

    What I feel wrong is some people here empathically defined a line that anyone who do not agree with them is an enemy. And even compare her to paedophiles... c'mon, this is another way of inciting an emotion based on assumption. I bet from that post onwards, the term paedophiles is now stuck with those who initially disagree with her and her "sins" are now heavier. Anyway... unless something else (definite proof) that can convince me to change my mind, I will stand by my view. I do not intend to enforce my view on others so this is my last post in this topic.

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Cries of foul play for photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by dawgbyte77
    This is what bothers me. You cane your child in the belief that it is for his own good. Some people will say it is wrong to do that but that is what they believe and it doesn't make them right or wrong, just different. So it is the same in this instance, people who are not actually there made a decision who is right and wrong. Making a child cry is another gray area as caning a child. You did it twice... some may do it more often... and some for every little mistake... who can say at which point it becomes right and wrong. So I would agree that it is wrong to abuse or terrorize a child but in this situation, people see the photo and made an assumption. Feelings can be exaggerated in a photo (I believe it was mentioned as well). Most wedding photographers know this and instinct to shoot smiling faces and enhance emotional scene even though on average the wedding is actually boring. And taking a lollipop away and giving it back will hardly traumatize a child. So it was made not specifically to the benefit of a child, it may not be right to some but it is not entirely wrong to others. Based on the context that I think has happened, I would need more concrete proof that something bad actually happened and someone was actually abused before I would agree that what she did is wrong.

    What I feel wrong is some people here empathically defined a line that anyone who do not agree with them is an enemy. And even compare her to paedophiles... c'mon, this is another way of inciting an emotion based on assumption. I bet from that post onwards, the term paedophiles is now stuck with those who initially disagree with her and her "sins" are now heavier. Anyway... unless something else (definite proof) that can convince me to change my mind, I will stand by my view. I do not intend to enforce my view on others so this is my last post in this topic.
    While everyone of us have our own views on what is right or wrong, when it comes to a child, in my opinion, the welfare of the child must come first. To instill fear in an UNKNOWING, HELPLESS child, to make the child cry so badly ( as shown in the photos ), for the purpose of fulfilling a personal goal and for the purpose of making money, it cannot be right. Not in my position as a parent, not in my position as a adult, and certainly not in my position as a photographer.

    If anyone should feel that there's nothing wrong, could you maybe tell us your point of view, why you don't think it is wrong, would you do the same to another child and would you allow others to do the same to your own child. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to bait for a war here. Just that I find it hard to understand how anyone can agreed to something like this. What's your point of view, who knows, maybe after hearing from you, all this may sound reasonable.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Cries of foul play for photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by satay16
    i dun know why there are pp that actually finds it nothing wrong with it, but i dun understand. at the end, nothing productive comes out from it. you dun create an art piece from pp to enjoy, you dun create a journalistic photograph that informs pp. all you created is just a terrorized child + controversy + sadistic enjoyment from paedophiles. all this rubbish about depicting the child to a bush administration just doesn't make sense, if it make sense for some reason. i believe taking naked children crying would help solving the poverty in africa? PURE RUBBISH!! ART SHOULD NOT BE CARRIED TO THE EXTENT OF CAUSING EVEN THE SLIGHTEST SENSE OF PHYSICAL OR PHYSCHOLOGICAL HARM TO PEOPLE!!!!! DUN SAY THAT THE CHILD ISN'T TERRORIZED!!!! PROBLEM WITH THE ARTICLE IS THAT THERE IS ONLY ONE CHILD SHOWN!!!! REMEMBER, HE TOOK MUCH MORE THAN ONE!!!!
    well. don't u see kids crying on the streets before? being spanked, yelled at, pinched or pulled at the ear by their parents? well aren't those physical or psychological harm? have you experienced such things yourself?

    don't take it too hard satay, it's all around us. and yeah, it's just a photo.
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  17. #37
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    Default Re: Cries of foul play for photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin
    i have to disagree. it's not just for fun, if parents find having kids crying in fear is fun there's something really wrong with those parents. at least i know my parents don't do that just for fun, and my relatives don't do it for fun.
    in that case i've seen a lot of them threatening their kids this way. so maybe it's some kinda culture? their parents brought them up this way and now they're parents they do the same.
    Canon 300D, 30D, 5D. 17-40 f4 L, 24-105 f4 L, 70-200 f2.8 L IS

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Cries of foul play for photographer

    everyone has their point of view.

    but not everyone has to be a bigot.

    remember that.

  19. #39
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    Default Re: Cries of foul play for photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by Sjourn
    I think if it is a deliberate act to make a child cry, it's sick. If its spontaneous than its beautiful.

    I don't blame the photog coz its a business for her and they have agreement with the parents, I blame the parents.

    I am a parent, and I would'nt let anything like that done to my child. Imagine someone paying you to make your child cry and feel distress in the name of money. Imagine if you are the child.


    If you call that art, I'll call that crap.
    My point of view : Natural = Beauty. Man-made = Crap. This is my Art. I would walk the streets all day to get 1 one the priceless shots of children crying than to pay hundredths of bucks for a piece of human-induced crap emotion.

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Cries of foul play for photographer

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin
    found the site for the pictures

    http://www.paulkopeikingallery.com/a...erg/index0.htm

    truly heartwrenching, from the pictures the photographer captured what seems like genuine pain and fear in the children

    just providing some context to the discussion here, but maybe some will be interested to purchase the pictures
    thats sadistic! art should never be brought this far... making children cry in the name of art.

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