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Thread: Grey card

  1. #41

    Default Re: grey card

    Quote Originally Posted by jopel
    you don't hold the expodisc
    Am I missing something here? I hold mine too because not all my lenses are 77mm.

  2. #42

    Default Re: grey card

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights
    The N way, you still have one hand free to hold the expodisc.
    Oh... yes! With the Nikon way, you can perform custom white balance and eat Pringles Sour Cream or BBQ flavored chips at the same time. Plus, you can use the cap on the Pringles can as an el'cheapo ExpoCap .

    When you finish your Pringles chips, don't dispose the can. Poke a tiny hole on the bottom of the can, attach it to your camera, and walah.... an instant pinhole camera.
    Last edited by photobum; 4th July 2006 at 12:50 AM.

  3. #43

    Default Re: grey card

    Very interesting that you use "CUSTOM WHITE BALANCE" when photographing the white card as in your post in bold below. Canon manual says "Choose ANY mode", I wondering why it does not affect the outcome since the reference will be diff with the different white balance modes used when taking the gray card... seems that i am missing something and need to read up more.




    Quote Originally Posted by photobum
    Catchlights, thanks for helping out.

    OK, I use a Canon EOS1Ds MkII at work so this is what I will normally do.
    • Set the camera to Manual Focus mode.
    • Allow the camera to set an automatic exposure using the “P”, “S” or “A”
      modes, or set the correct manual exposure in “M” mode.
    • Press and hold the white “WB” button while turning the thumb dial to select the
      custom WB icon in the control panel, then release the“WB” button.
    • Aim the camera in the direction of the gray card for the given lighting condition and
      press the shutter release button.
    • Press the menu button to access menu system.
    • Press and hold the ‘select’ button and rotate the thumb dial to access the
      ‘camera recording sub menu’ <camera icon>, then release the ‘select’ button.
    • Press and hold the ‘select’ button and scroll down to ‘custom WB’ then release
      the ‘select’ button.
    • Press and hold the ‘select’ button and rotate the thumb dial to select the last
      picture taken, then release the ‘select’ button.
    • Press and hold the ‘select’ button and rotate thumb dial to select ‘OK’ then
      release the ‘select’ button.
    • Press the menu button to exit menu system.
    In the case of Nikon DSLR, it is simpler. That's why I still prefer Nikon. Much more user friendly and its functions are straightforward.

    Here is the Nikon way:
    • Allow the camera to set an automatic exposure using the “P”, “S” or “A” modes, or set the correct manual exposure in “M” mode.
    • Press and hold the ‘WB’ button with left thumb while turning right thumb wheel to select ‘Pre’ in the control panel, then release the ‘WB’ button.
    • Press and hold the ‘WB’ button again until ‘Pre’ begins to blink in the control panel.
    • While ‘Pre’ is blinking (10 seconds), aim the camera in the direction of the gray card for the given lighting condition and press the shutter release button.
    • ‘Good’ will replace ‘Pre’ in the control to indicate a successful white balance reading.

  4. #44

    Default Re: grey card

    Quote Originally Posted by ianpaice
    Very interesting that you use "CUSTOM WHITE BALANCE" when photographing the white card as in your post in bold below.
    Errr... Not white card. I was using a gray card. These days I am using an ExpoDisc.

    Sometimes you cannot follow exactly what the Canon manual says. Same goes for Nikon too.
    Last edited by photobum; 4th July 2006 at 08:23 AM.

  5. #45
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    Default Re: grey card

    Quote Originally Posted by photobum
    Oh... yes! With the Nikon way, you can perform custom white balance and eat Pringles Sour Cream or BBQ flavored chips at the same time. Plus, you can use the cap on the Pringles can as an el'cheapo ExpoCap .

    When you finish your Pringles chips, don't dispose the can. Poke a tiny hole on the bottom of the can, attach it to your camera, and walah.... an instant pinhole camera.
    I tried pringles but a bit bluish leh (Using Nikon btw, using flourescent when I tested). I also tried bleached white coffee filter and I find them nicer. I tried the dome of lightsphere pj and it seems almost as good as the coffee filter. The only thing is that if you're charging premium for your customer and they see you're playing with a filter or what looks like a bra enhancer, its kinda embarassing compared to expo thingie.

  6. #46
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    Default Re: grey card

    Quote Originally Posted by ianpaice
    Need advice when using white/gray card:

    2. Canon manual says set to "Manual Focusing" while taking the sample. Will it upset the outcome if the focusing was not really spot on while taking the sample white object?

    Thank you.
    Don't know if this is answered bec im jumping post. Your question regarding infinity and manual focusing is due because your shooting a plain color plain. If you use auto-focus, it will never succeed. I think out-of-focus is still okay since you're more concern with the color than its shape.

  7. #47

    Default Re: grey card

    Quote Originally Posted by dawgbyte77
    I tried pringles but a bit bluish leh (Using Nikon btw, using flourescent when I tested).
    That's why it is called el'cheapo version of the ExpoCap.

    Have you tried baby fomula lid? The Mead Johnson EnfoGrow is supposingly to be quite good. It costs more than Pringles, BUT baby formula these days contains DHA, AHA, etc.... suppose to make the drinker smarter, thus increase IQ.

    Okay... I am serious here. It is bluish because Pringles lid has a yellowish tint. If you know the color wheel, the opposite of blue is yellow.
    Last edited by photobum; 4th July 2006 at 09:30 PM.

  8. #48

    Default Re: grey card

    hello,

    Indeed we know that it may be not possible to focus on the white card itself unless you focus it at the border of the card against a background. But whats confusing is that the manual said: (in exact words from canon manual)


    - Set the lens focus mode switch to <MF>, then focus manually.(p.70)
    - Set any white balance setting
    - Shoot the white object so that a standard exposure is obtained.



    So as you see, the instructions above (in red) seems to imply that you will want to acheive focus before you shoot. Guess I should take some tests myself to see if it makes any diff afterall. TQ



    Quote Originally Posted by dawgbyte77
    Don't know if this is answered bec im jumping post. Your question regarding infinity and manual focusing is due because your shooting a plain color plain. If you use auto-focus, it will never succeed. I think out-of-focus is still okay since you're more concern with the color than its shape.

  9. #49
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: grey card

    Quote Originally Posted by ianpaice
    hello,

    Indeed we know that it may be not possible to focus on the white card itself unless you focus it at the border of the card against a background. But whats confusing is that the manual said: (in exact words from canon manual)


    - Set the lens focus mode switch to <MF>, then focus manually.(p.70)
    - Set any white balance setting
    - Shoot the white object so that a standard exposure is obtained.



    So as you see, the instructions above (in red) seems to imply that you will want to acheive focus before you shoot. Guess I should take some tests myself to see if it makes any diff afterall. TQ
    I think you still miss the point,

    if you set to auto focus, you can only press the shutter release when things are IN FOCUS, you don't have to focus on the gray card or white object, all you need to do is to FILL the whole frame with this shade.
    so switch to MF, the shutter release is able to fire whether the lens are IN FOCUS or not.

    The camera only want the shade of the neutral tone, not the texture or the shape of the white object.
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  10. #50

    Default Re: grey card

    Perhaps I read it diff from you. The manual says "then focus manually" seems to imply that one need to try to acheive focus (otherwise they should have leave out that phrase "then focus manually" after the "Set the lens focus mode switch to <MF>"


    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights
    I think you still miss the point,

    if you set to auto focus, you can only press the shutter release when things are IN FOCUS, you don't have to focus on the gray card or white object, all you need to do is to FILL the whole frame with this shade.
    so switch to MF, the shutter release is able to fire whether the lens are IN FOCUS or not.

    The camera only want the shade of the neutral tone, not the texture or the shape of the white object.
    Last edited by ianpaice; 5th July 2006 at 12:44 AM.

  11. #51
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grey card

    I give up!!
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  12. #52

    Default Re: Grey card

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights
    I give up!!
    don't. keep up your good work!

    ian paice is good with drums and is new to photography.

    ian, it needs not to be in focus you just have to be sure that the gray card fill the view finder.

  13. #53
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    Default Re: grey card

    Quote Originally Posted by photobum
    That's why it is called el'cheapo version of the ExpoCap.

    Have you tried baby fomula lid? The Mead Johnson EnfoGrow is supposingly to be quite good. It costs more than Pringles, BUT baby formula these days contains DHA, AHA, etc.... suppose to make the drinker smarter, thus increase IQ.

    Okay... I am serious here. It is bluish because Pringles lid has a yellowish tint. If you know the color wheel, the opposite of blue is yellow.
    I'm now using the coffee filter. $2 for 40 pcs and its fat-free and sodium-free (never really tried licking one side like a pringles so this is theoretical). I never did like milk and was weaned on kopi-o so .. no wonder I'm always full of theories only I can understand.

  14. #54
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    Default Re: grey card

    Quote Originally Posted by ianpaice
    hello,

    Indeed we know that it may be not possible to focus on the white card itself unless you focus it at the border of the card against a background. But whats confusing is that the manual said: (in exact words from canon manual)


    - Set the lens focus mode switch to <MF>, then focus manually.(p.70)
    - Set any white balance setting
    - Shoot the white object so that a standard exposure is obtained.



    So as you see, the instructions above (in red) seems to imply that you will want to acheive focus before you shoot. Guess I should take some tests myself to see if it makes any diff afterall. TQ
    Hmm.. I can't help with that since mine is Nikon and my manual is lost and buried amidst my collections of maxims and fhm (and I do take it personally when people say RTFM).

  15. #55
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    Default Re: Grey card

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights
    I give up!!
    Shame on quitters.

  16. #56
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    Default Re: grey card

    Quote Originally Posted by ianpaice
    Perhaps I read it diff from you. The manual says "then focus manually" seems to imply that one need to try to acheive focus (otherwise they should have leave out that phrase "then focus manually" after the "Set the lens focus mode switch to <MF>"
    Don't take the manual too seriously.. skip the "focus manually" part. What I do is just set my focus to manual, cover my lens with my coffee filter "expodisk", click and get a "good" reading. Set back to AF. Good thing I lost my manual and got "condensed" instructions from the web. The technical writer could be some japanese guy translating japanese manual to english with a japanese-english dictionary.

  17. #57
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grey card

    Quote Originally Posted by dawgbyte77
    Shame on quitters.
    I just give up on explaining these to him.. other people can do this better than me.
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  18. #58
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: grey card

    Quote Originally Posted by dawgbyte77
    Don't take the manual too seriously.. skip the "focus manually" part. What I do is just set my focus to manual, cover my lens with my coffee filter "expodisk", click and get a "good" reading. Set back to AF. Good thing I lost my manual and got "condensed" instructions from the web. The technical writer could be some japanese guy translating japanese manual to english with a japanese-english dictionary.
    do you know you don't have to set the camera focus to manual for do this?

    just use your thumb press on the focusing lock will do.

    this one manual never teach you one, you can't find this in the manual.
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  19. #59

    Default Re: Grey card

    Thanks for all replies.

    I just did a few tests and got interesting results. I tried to photograph my white card by:

    1. Using manual focus and ensuring focus is good and took the shot, then without changing position I proceed to No 2 below:

    2. Using manual focus and purposely turn the focus ring such that the focusing is blur (infinity).


    The result of the 2 white card images turned out to be different. The image took with the poor focus is brighter than the one with good focus (even though the camera partial metering show the same exposure readings)

    According to the manual, an overexposed or underexposed sample will affect the outcome such that a correct white balance may not be obtained.

    Will these 2 slightly different reference affect the final images later? Not sure, will do the tests later ... now must go eat, bathe and prepare for world cup first ...hehe

  20. #60

    Default Re: grey card

    Quote Originally Posted by dawgbyte77
    .....The technical writer could be some japanese guy translating japanese manual to english with a japanese-english dictionary.
    That is what I have in mind also. Some Japanese guy or gal (I hope she is beautiful) translating Japanese to English.

    BTW, they should have said 'shoot an 18% gray card' instead of 'shoot a white object'. How 'white' is 'white'? Even white paper has different tints.
    Last edited by photobum; 5th July 2006 at 08:19 AM.

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