Underwater Photographer Specialty

AncientMariner · 27th June 2006

I was certified in 1981 and used to dive almost every weekend in the early 80s. However, I have not been scuba-diving since my last trip to Redang in 1995.
Occasional visits to this forum has rekindled my interest in scuba diving and I aim to take up underwater photography. So rather than just do a refresher, I am contemplating taking another "specialty" course. I am wondering whether any diveshop or center in Singapore offers such courses, especially that for PADI underwater photographer. Any advice would be appreciated.

WhyZzzzzz · 27th June 2006

Originally Posted by AncientMariner

I was certified in 1981 and used to dive almost every weekend in the early 80s. However, I have not been scuba-diving since my last trip to Redang in 1995.
Occasional visits to this forum has rekindled my interest in scuba diving and I aim to take up underwater photography. So rather than just do a refresher, I am contemplating taking another "specialty" course. I am wondering whether any diveshop or center in Singapore offers such courses, especially that for PADI underwater photographer. Any advice would be appreciated.

you might want to check with local underwater photography shops ..... www.oceanicfocus.com .. just to mention one of them....

AncientMariner · 27th June 2006

Originally Posted by WhyZzzzzz

you might want to check with local underwater photography shops ..... www.oceanicfocus.com .. just to mention one of them....

Tks. I'll check them out.

kthan · 28th June 2006

does Oceanicfocus do u/w photography course?

Ancient Mariner, glad to see someone willing to pay for a course. PADI has a speciality on this but personally , i feel ntg beats going underwater and shoot shoot shoot. with instant review on DC, the learning curve will be real steep but short before u start taking decent pics.

eric

frisky · 28th June 2006

Originally Posted by AncientMariner

I was certified in 1981 and used to dive almost every weekend in the early 80s. However, I have not been scuba-diving since my last trip to Redang in 1995.
Occasional visits to this forum has rekindled my interest in scuba diving and I aim to take up underwater photography. So rather than just do a refresher, I am contemplating taking another "specialty" course. I am wondering whether any diveshop or center in Singapore offers such courses, especially that for PADI underwater photographer. Any advice would be appreciated.

I would suggest that you try to get a "package" deal with whoever you decided to go with, of a refresher + the speciality.

11 years is a long time not to be underwater. To go underwater after so long handling a underwater camera that you wasn't familiar with might be a bit daunting.......

NitroxCrazy · 28th June 2006

Would be incline to agree with kthan and continue to take your camera down.Learn from trial and error and your hands on experience. Books can also help.

As for specialty, would much prefer to take something like Nitrox which is the only one that I think is worthwhile taking. Taking other specialty in my opinion is a waste of money (much better cheaper to pay for a refresher) or upgrade yourself to the next level of certification in conjuction with a refresher.

WhyZzzzzz · 28th June 2006

Originally Posted by NitroxCrazy

Would be incline to agree with kthan and continue to take your camera down.Learn from trial and error and your hands on experience. Books can also help.

As for specialty, would much prefer to take something like Nitrox which is the only one that I think is worthwhile taking. Taking other specialty in my opinion is a waste of money (much better cheaper to pay for a refresher) or upgrade yourself to the next level of certification in conjuction with a refresher.

now we have to wait for someone with a nick called rebreatherCrazy ... sorry for the OT ...

yes, trial and error helps.... just that it takes longer and sometimes common sense isn't so common after all.... So there's help out there! Like going to school, you could self study ... or you could pay for knowledge.... in the end, it's still up to you.

yanyewkay · 28th June 2006

the dive shop I go with does u/w photography course.

check out www.divercity.com.sg
I would still think a pool refresher course is good. You'll never know what you've forgotten and it's not a good idea to panic when you're underwater.

h2o · 28th June 2006

the specialty course would be worth the $$$ if the instructor is an underwater photographer....not someone who read from the text.......u can do that yourself.....u may want to see his/her portfolio........

u may want to check out: http://www.diversdreams.com/index.html

alternatively, do the refresher, shoot the pictures and post them here for critique....

antacid · 28th June 2006

yup, i know a diveshop that does the u/w specialty..

but like what the other guys mentioned, take note of who the instructor is. a slight flaw with the PADI system is that instructors can have instructor specialty ratings without having gone thru the course themselves!

make sure you know what the specialty course covers, so you wont come away feeling short-changed or cheated. the course is really touching on the basics of u/w photography like getting familiar with the equipment considerations, maintaining the equipment, and some extra things specific to u/w photography like manual white-balance etc. i think it also covers some parts like composition, exposure, and lighting, which i'm sure shouldn't be too tough for you!

it wont be tough doing your refresher and the specialty together. any decent operator should be able to arrange that for you.

AncientMariner · 29th June 2006

There certainly are a lot of helpful people in this forum. Thanks, buddies for the advice and leads.
I understand why many are recommending a refresher course and agree with frisky that 11 years is a long layoff. Frisky's advice on handling a camera which you are not familiar with whilst underwater reminded me of divemasters observing "over-equipped" photographers to make sure they are not "potential incidents".

Through 14 years of scuba diving, I have learned to appreciate the safety precautions necessary in the sport and developed a habit of observing them. That's why I considered re-training. I am not against paying for courses, having taken 9 courses already (11 if you consider non-diving courses such as equipment specialty and first-aid). What made me think of "killing two birds with one stone" by taking another specialty instead of a refresher course is that from experience the instructors are supposed to and will use the first open water lesson, to assess the performance of the student. However, if the u/w photography course does not involve practical dives, then a check-out dive with an instructor to assess what I have forgotten would be foremost in my mind.
I think kthan and Whyzzzzzz are only referring only to the photo-snapping aspect when they brought up a "trial and error". I am sure they do not mean it to apply to relearning scuba diving. However, I have buddied u/w photographers often in the past and vaguely remember the vast difference in properties of light above and underwater and between different depths. So I prefer to speed up the acquisition of more knowledge through guidance.
Thanks to h2o and antacid for alerting me to check the quality of instructors. It is news to me as in the past, an advanced open-water instructor had to hold certification in a specialty before he could apply to be a specialty instructor in that specialty. I certainly would do a check-out dive with the "potenial" instructor before signing-on. I now recall I used to do that before I sign up for dives with an operator in foreign territory.
Once again, thanks to all who replied. I will try to find the old photos I took with a early model Sea & Sea P&S and if I do and if no one minds scanned copies of pics from a 110 cartridge shot, post them here.

antacid · 29th June 2006

here's a website with some info on the course
http://www.orpheusdive.com/v7/course...italphoto.html

it tells you what the fees cover, and what it does not cover. i managed to get a detailed course outline as well (which is lacking from the website..), so if you're interested, pm me your email address and i can mail it to you. hope i'm not violating any copyright laws..haha

good to see a diver serious about his dive education..they just dont make divers these days like they used to. *grin*

Luv4nature · 29th June 2006

AncientMariner,

Welcome to the forum.

Just to offer you a different opinion, I often find that there are better alternatives to those so called "specialty underwater photography" courses. These are the elements that I find a good uw photographer should possess whether they attend specialty uw photo classes or not.

1. Perfecting in bouyancy control, plus good body posture while handling uw photo equipment. This is something one needs to acquire separately irregardless of how many dives he/she has clocked previously. The bouyancy control and balancing skill are difficult to perfect, but is a prerequisite to becoming a good uw photographer. I think those serious in uw photograher will know what I mean.

2. Good basic understand of the principle of photography. There are too many "auto pilot" and bells n whistles in today's digital cameras, so much so that many users do not even understand the basics such as ISO, aperture, shutter, colour temperature balance, etc. Without a good understand of these parameters, one would not know what are the particular settings to do to obtain the desired results.

3. Knowing the uniqueness about underwater photography. Such as colour loss, particle reflection, difference in angle of view, etc.

4. Knowing your photo equipment (both land and uw photo gears). Without fully knowing the capabilities and limitations of your uw photo gears, one cannot fully optimize any uw photo opportunities. This also includes knowing how to properly maintain and take care of the gears.

5. Have a good eye for photography. This is partly an art to master. Include things like composition, lighting effect, depth, subject matter, etc. mainly the non-technical part to a picture. This is the most difficult thing in photography to master, and can be gained through experience (lots and lots of shooting), learning, studying of technique and style (from the experts), etc. Of course there is also the element of artistic talent.

In my opinion, there is no shortcuts in 1 through 5 if you really want to work towards becoming a good uw photographer. Most uw photography courses would cover item 4 partially, plus a little bit of the rest.

Else, just house a basic all-in-1 digital cam, jump into the water and start shooting, and hope that among the many photos taken, some will turn out acceptable

lovells19 · 30th June 2006

hehe.. i feel, those speciality courses are not really helpful..

chubbyman · 30th June 2006

i agree with lovells.... a lot of instructors are not photographers themselves ... i read the padi u/w speciality content .. they only teach you the basics, which i feel are something that you can read from the books.. furthermore, if you are using a different class of cameras eg. point and shoot, prosumer to DSLR, the instrutctor may not have the correct experience ..

i would think the most important skill is actually buoyancy, i have seen u/w photographers, when they take pictures, they literally sit, shove their fins into the corals, just to take the "perfect" picture ...

just my two cents worth

.. no offence ya?

Cheers

staad3 · 30th June 2006

Actually I saw from scubaboard forum there are such courses, but it costs a bomb.

antacid · 30th June 2006

in a way, i think u/w photography is very like land photography:

you just need someone to show you what each thing does, how to use it properly, some basic techniques and ways to shoot things, and the rest is up to you.

nobody can teach you how to get unique and creative angles. they could show you, but then it wont be original and different anymore.

27th June 2006	#1
AncientMariner Account Suspended Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Little Red Dot Posts: 1,067	Underwater Photographer Specialty I was certified in 1981 and used to dive almost every weekend in the early 80s. However, I have not been scuba-diving since my last trip to Redang in 1995. Occasional visits to this forum has rekindled my interest in scuba diving and I aim to take up underwater photography. So rather than just do a refresher, I am contemplating taking another "specialty" course. I am wondering whether any diveshop or center in Singapore offers such courses, especially that for PADI underwater photographer. Any advice would be appreciated.

28th June 2006	#4
kthan Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 2,318	Re: Underwater Photographer Specialty does Oceanicfocus do u/w photography course? Ancient Mariner, glad to see someone willing to pay for a course. PADI has a speciality on this but personally , i feel ntg beats going underwater and shoot shoot shoot. with instant review on DC, the learning curve will be real steep but short before u start taking decent pics. eric

28th June 2006	#6
NitroxCrazy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 58	Re: Underwater Photographer Specialty Would be incline to agree with kthan and continue to take your camera down.Learn from trial and error and your hands on experience. Books can also help. As for specialty, would much prefer to take something like Nitrox which is the only one that I think is worthwhile taking. Taking other specialty in my opinion is a waste of money (much better cheaper to pay for a refresher) or upgrade yourself to the next level of certification in conjuction with a refresher.

28th June 2006	#8
yanyewkay Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Cons digger. Posts: 4,046	Re: Underwater Photographer Specialty the dive shop I go with does u/w photography course. check out www.divercity.com.sg I would still think a pool refresher course is good. You'll never know what you've forgotten and it's not a good idea to panic when you're underwater. __________________ “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” - Adolf Hitler

28th June 2006	#9
h2o Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Singapore Posts: 446	Re: Underwater Photographer Specialty the specialty course would be worth the $$$ if the instructor is an underwater photographer....not someone who read from the text.......u can do that yourself.....u may want to see his/her portfolio........ u may want to check out: http://www.diversdreams.com/index.html alternatively, do the refresher, shoot the pictures and post them here for critique....

28th June 2006	#10
antacid Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New York, Singapore Posts: 1,188	Re: Underwater Photographer Specialty yup, i know a diveshop that does the u/w specialty.. but like what the other guys mentioned, take note of who the instructor is. a slight flaw with the PADI system is that instructors can have instructor specialty ratings without having gone thru the course themselves! make sure you know what the specialty course covers, so you wont come away feeling short-changed or cheated. the course is really touching on the basics of u/w photography like getting familiar with the equipment considerations, maintaining the equipment, and some extra things specific to u/w photography like manual white-balance etc. i think it also covers some parts like composition, exposure, and lighting, which i'm sure shouldn't be too tough for you! it wont be tough doing your refresher and the specialty together. any decent operator should be able to arrange that for you. __________________ www.colouredshots.com Kodak film disposable camera

29th June 2006	#11
AncientMariner Account Suspended Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Little Red Dot Posts: 1,067	Re: Underwater Photographer Specialty There certainly are a lot of helpful people in this forum. Thanks, buddies for the advice and leads. I understand why many are recommending a refresher course and agree with frisky that 11 years is a long layoff. Frisky's advice on handling a camera which you are not familiar with whilst underwater reminded me of divemasters observing "over-equipped" photographers to make sure they are not "potential incidents". Through 14 years of scuba diving, I have learned to appreciate the safety precautions necessary in the sport and developed a habit of observing them. That's why I considered re-training. I am not against paying for courses, having taken 9 courses already (11 if you consider non-diving courses such as equipment specialty and first-aid). What made me think of "killing two birds with one stone" by taking another specialty instead of a refresher course is that from experience the instructors are supposed to and will use the first open water lesson, to assess the performance of the student. However, if the u/w photography course does not involve practical dives, then a check-out dive with an instructor to assess what I have forgotten would be foremost in my mind. I think kthan and Whyzzzzzz are only referring only to the photo-snapping aspect when they brought up a "trial and error". I am sure they do not mean it to apply to relearning scuba diving. However, I have buddied u/w photographers often in the past and vaguely remember the vast difference in properties of light above and underwater and between different depths. So I prefer to speed up the acquisition of more knowledge through guidance. Thanks to h2o and antacid for alerting me to check the quality of instructors. It is news to me as in the past, an advanced open-water instructor had to hold certification in a specialty before he could apply to be a specialty instructor in that specialty. I certainly would do a check-out dive with the "potenial" instructor before signing-on. I now recall I used to do that before I sign up for dives with an operator in foreign territory. Once again, thanks to all who replied. I will try to find the old photos I took with a early model Sea & Sea P&S and if I do and if no one minds scanned copies of pics from a 110 cartridge shot, post them here.

29th June 2006	#13
Luv4nature Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: S'pore Posts: 365	Re: Underwater Photographer Specialty AncientMariner, Welcome to the forum. Just to offer you a different opinion, I often find that there are better alternatives to those so called "specialty underwater photography" courses. These are the elements that I find a good uw photographer should possess whether they attend specialty uw photo classes or not. 1. Perfecting in bouyancy control, plus good body posture while handling uw photo equipment. This is something one needs to acquire separately irregardless of how many dives he/she has clocked previously. The bouyancy control and balancing skill are difficult to perfect, but is a prerequisite to becoming a good uw photographer. I think those serious in uw photograher will know what I mean. 2. Good basic understand of the principle of photography. There are too many "auto pilot" and bells n whistles in today's digital cameras, so much so that many users do not even understand the basics such as ISO, aperture, shutter, colour temperature balance, etc. Without a good understand of these parameters, one would not know what are the particular settings to do to obtain the desired results. 3. Knowing the uniqueness about underwater photography. Such as colour loss, particle reflection, difference in angle of view, etc. 4. Knowing your photo equipment (both land and uw photo gears). Without fully knowing the capabilities and limitations of your uw photo gears, one cannot fully optimize any uw photo opportunities. This also includes knowing how to properly maintain and take care of the gears. 5. Have a good eye for photography. This is partly an art to master. Include things like composition, lighting effect, depth, subject matter, etc. mainly the non-technical part to a picture. This is the most difficult thing in photography to master, and can be gained through experience (lots and lots of shooting), learning, studying of technique and style (from the experts), etc. Of course there is also the element of artistic talent. In my opinion, there is no shortcuts in 1 through 5 if you really want to work towards becoming a good uw photographer. Most uw photography courses would cover item 4 partially, plus a little bit of the rest. Else, just house a basic all-in-1 digital cam, jump into the water and start shooting, and hope that among the many photos taken, some will turn out acceptable Last edited by Luv4nature; 29th June 2006 at 11:27 PM.

30th June 2006	#14
lovells19 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Deep Deep in the sea Posts: 3,235	Re: Underwater Photographer Specialty hehe.. i feel, those speciality courses are not really helpful..

30th June 2006	#15
chubbyman Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 218	Re: Underwater Photographer Specialty i agree with lovells.... a lot of instructors are not photographers themselves ... i read the padi u/w speciality content .. they only teach you the basics, which i feel are something that you can read from the books.. furthermore, if you are using a different class of cameras eg. point and shoot, prosumer to DSLR, the instrutctor may not have the correct experience .. i would think the most important skill is actually buoyancy, i have seen u/w photographers, when they take pictures, they literally sit, shove their fins into the corals, just to take the "perfect" picture ... just my two cents worth .. no offence ya? Cheers Last edited by chubbyman; 30th June 2006 at 09:40 AM.

30th June 2006	#16
staad3 Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: east Posts: 321	Re: Underwater Photographer Specialty Actually I saw from scubaboard forum there are such courses, but it costs a bomb.