View Poll Results: should we have a intellectual/creative critique section in the forum

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  • Go ahead with the new section

    20 37.04%
  • Not sure, but at least try

    14 25.93%
  • forget it.

    20 37.04%
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Thread: creative/intellectual critiques and info

  1. #1

    Default creative/intellectual critiques and info

    Well after much discussion with RedDawn on whether clubsnap should have a section for creative/ intellectual critiques and information, it has been decided that a poll should be called for first.

    what should included in the section are topics like the link shown here. http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthrea...threadid=20184

    As Singapore is progressing into a more gracious and artistic society, I think people also should have more assess to information and appreciation of high art. By creating such a section in the forum, clubsnap would play a more active role in helping to educate people in the local scene and giving them a more global and international perpective in art.

    Though the response may not be overwhelming due to lack of appreciation and understanding, I felt that by keeping ignorant is not nessary a good thing either. I don't know how you guys feel but I know I must try. What I need now is your support.
    Last edited by excentrique; 25th December 2002 at 02:05 AM.

  2. #2
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    I like your last paragraph. In two sentences you have alienated 80% of the clubsnap ppl.
    "I'm... dreaming... of a wide... angle~
    Just like the ones I used to know~"

  3. #3
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    Originally posted by denizenx
    I like your last paragraph. In two sentences you have alienated 80% of the clubsnap ppl.
    Really? Not sure about that. I did however pick up on the "however I must try" thing. Welcome the saviour of the uneducated, unintellectual Singaporean masses. More than 80% I would have thought. More like, everyone except Excentrique.

  4. #4

  5. #5

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    Originally posted by denizenx
    I like your last paragraph. In two sentences you have alienated 80% of the clubsnap ppl.

    I apologise here if I give any negative implication here. I'm not trying to refer singaporeans or people here as uneducated. But rather try to give a broader perpective of understanding. I don't think I'm smart, or wise enough to educate. I think the word educate is wrong in the first place to use. Rather I hope you guys could look at a broader perpective. Look at a different perpective of things. I don't like to force thing down your throat and I not that kind of person. What I want is to invite more people into thinking. I'm not a saviour, not god. I'm just doing what I believe in as a human. And I don't want to give up until I give a good fight.

  6. #6

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    Originally posted by denizenx
    I like your last paragraph. In two sentences you have alienated 80% of the clubsnap ppl.

    By the way, if you think I'm alienating myself from the other clubsnap members, I would have left a long time ago. The reason why I still stay put here despite 80% of aliented relationships, is I felt that there is still chance for me to share and learn from others. I'm trying to build a bond here and not alientation.

  7. #7

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    Originally posted by Jed


    Really? Not sure about that. I did however pick up on the "however I must try" thing. Welcome the saviour of the uneducated, unintellectual Singaporean masses. More than 80% I would have thought. More like, everyone except Excentrique.
    Jed, do you think I should even put up with all the negative response, sarcasm, or why should I even get myself into so much trouble? Maybe I should just go fly kite, leave clubsnap so the forum will be more peaceful. Do you think I have nothing better to do?

    Trying to stay here despite scornful remarks from some is not an easy thing for me. What has carried me so far here is my honesty and sincerety in trying to make people to accept a wider perpective of things in life. I allowed myself to be degraded, scolded, rejected all because at least I know I have answered to my heart. If I give up now, then there will never be understanding between all of us. I'm trying to be a friend and not your enemy.

  8. #8

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    Originally posted by Jed


    Really? Not sure about that. I did however pick up on the "however I must try" thing. Welcome the saviour of the uneducated, unintellectual Singaporean masses. More than 80% I would have thought. More like, everyone except Excentrique.

  9. #9

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    hereby I would like to thank people whom have shown support. Even if I have only 1 vote, it will reflect that I'm not alone. Thanks very much and merry chirstmas

  10. #10
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    Originally posted by excentrique
    hereby I would like to thank people whom have shown support. Even if I have only 1 vote, it will reflect that I'm not alone. Thanks very much and merry chirstmas
    You live in the wrong part of the world.
    The time is yet to come for your idea to be appreciated here. Everything have their own place and time....

  11. #11

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    Originally posted by tsdh

    You live in the wrong part of the world.
    The time is yet to come for your idea to be appreciated here. Everything have their own place and time....
    Put it this way, the time will never come for the next at least 20 years to come. There are people who are trying, people like me, and people whom have been in the art scenes for a while. The percentage is small but it is changing slowy. There will be a day where people will learn to accept new ideas, changes. It's only a matter of time that it will take place. The thing is to make it more assessible to people. Then appreciation level will also rise.

    Thanks for your input. I think they are valid in certain extend. But even if there is one soul out there who have the same sentiment out there, it will mean that there is still hope. I just want to know how many are there actually.

    Though this world works in a 'majority wins' stereotype system, It doesn't mean minority does not exist. If man want to divide himself, in these systems, he will only destroy himself in long run. The fine examples are terrorism, social double standards, around the world.
    Last edited by excentrique; 25th December 2002 at 04:27 PM.

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by excentrique
    But even if there is one soul out there who have the same sentiment out there, it will mean that there is still hope. I just want to know how many are there actually.
    Unfortunately, the world is not moving according to your command. In majority of Asian societies where money, power and fame are the points of measurement, art will always be minority.
    It is nothing to do with education or intellectual, but just the way of life. If you can do a miracle to change the "kiasu" and "5-C" mindset, then you may have a hope.
    As for now, I suggest you to forget about the idea of discussing art-photography throughout the lifespan of CS, altough there're a few who will appreciate it.

  13. #13
    ClubSNAP Idol Adam Goi's Avatar
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    Ok...thinking aloud here. Before things get OT and people become misunderstood, come on....it's just a poll to garner sufficient response to justify the creation of a sub-forum.

    Frankly I like the idea behind it but personally (not speaking on behalf of the FMs) don't really see the need to have a specific forum for that.

    It's like courtesy to me. If I find a particular forum (I'm sure CS is not like that!) where the people are rude and insensitive to one another, I'll make sure I set myself apart from the rest and start being sensitive and polite in my remarks. Hopefully with time, the seed sowed by me will blossom and turn the forum into one where people are friendly and understanding. I don't think we need a sub-forum for that right?

    Sounds tough, well that's the challenge. Sounds impossible? Well it's up the people who are behind the cause. But if you ask me, I still don't see that warrant a need to have a sub-forum; fight for the cause, win people over and hope in time, it'll be integrated into the way we critique and appreciate.


  14. #14

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    Originally posted by tsdh

    You live in the wrong part of the world.
    The time is yet to come for your idea to be appreciated here. Everything have their own place and time....
    I find this statement very defeatish..... hmm....

    I'm pretty sure you're wrong, maybe a most, CS is a wrong place to expect such appreciation
    36frames Wedding Photography - http://www.36frames.com
    rueyloon - http://www.rueyloon.com

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    Originally posted by rueyloon
    I find this statement very defeatish..... hmm....

    I'm pretty sure you're wrong, maybe a most, CS is a wrong place to expect such appreciation
    hopefully I'm wrong. I hope so.
    As excentrique had mentioned, yes there're a handful people who do appreciate art as it supposed to, here in CS. They're minority, homeless among the crowd.
    I really hope I'm wrong ....

  16. #16
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    Excentrique, its good to have such desire to encourage a broader prospective here in CS. But I personally think the time is not ripe now. Photographers and their style will slowly mature over time. Your proposals may slowly be accepted by more members of the community here. When that time comes, lets see what you can contribute(Which I bet will be very encouraging and fruitful )

    In the meantime, hang around and enjoy the company.

  17. #17

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    Originally posted by AdamGoi
    It's like courtesy to me. If I find a particular forum (I'm sure CS is not like that!) where the people are rude and insensitive to one another, I'll make sure I set myself apart from the rest and start being sensitive and polite in my remarks. Hopefully with time, the seed sowed by me will blossom and turn the forum into one where people are friendly and understanding. I don't think we need a sub-forum for that right?

    It's my pleasure to hear that you like the idea. And yes being nice does makes a difference. I thank you for that.

    Why I think there is a need for a subforum is bascially, topics of such genre requires a long time to write or think. It would be a pity if the topics discuss were to be gone in a matter of weeks. The fact that the viewership may be small, for people to realise, it may be too late. It probably like art central on the the television. You can't possibly put an art film on chanel 5 or 8. The thing is to make it more *assessible* to people. If you put an art film on chanel5,people would think that some crap film is playing. But by puting it in anart chanel, people will be more prepared to accept the content of the film. Knowing that it is an art chanel, they can also check out art film as and when they like. By doing this you are already creating an opportunity for them to understand and appreciate art better.

    Yes, we can still continue without a subforum, but it just too time consuming for people to read and think and write. And since not much people will read them anyway, people will stop writing, stop analysing, and then we'll all be back to square one.

    The beginner and amateur will progress and once they hit plateu, you'll lose them too.

  18. #18
    ClubSNAP Admin Darren's Avatar
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    excentrique,

    Thank you for putting yourself on the front line (and taking some of the flak) and suggesting this new sub-forum.

    What I (and probably some others) are probably missing is how would this new sub-forum be different from the Critique Corner that we already have.

    And not to sound defeatist, even though we had tried for some time to provide meaningful critiques in Critique Corner, there seems to be a lack of support or rather any increase in the number of good critiques. Whether for a lack of real pics requiring critique, or for lack of a good number of ppl who can give critiques, or both, we haven't yet figured out.

    Perhaps, instead of creating a new sub-forum, it would be better to make some concerted effort to incease the visibility and participation in the current Critique Corner.

    Just my few thoughts on this, but you can be assured that we will support good ideas.

  19. #19

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    Originally posted by kongg
    Excentrique, its good to have such desire to encourage a broader prospective here in CS. But I personally think the time is not ripe now. Photographers and their style will slowly mature over time. Your proposals may slowly be accepted by more members of the community here. When that time comes, lets see what you can contribute(Which I bet will be very encouraging and fruitful )

    In the meantime, hang around and enjoy the company.
    Frankly speaking, I personally felt that the time will never be ripe. Ultimately, Singapore history is short in comparions to other nations. What more about art? We do not have the infrastructure like oversea. Neither do we have hundreds of years of art history. The truth is that people whom appreciate it is just the very few of us. And We are trying hard to let people know more about it. My power is limited. I am just a human. And I can't expect everyone to be as thick-skin, shameless, and persistent as me as to keep pestering you guys and fellow members to respond. Who would bother in the first place?

  20. #20

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    Originally posted by Darren
    excentrique,

    And not to sound defeatist, even though we had tried for some time to provide meaningful critiques in Critique Corner, there seems to be a lack of support or rather any increase in the number of good critiques. Whether for a lack of real pics requiring critique, or for lack of a good number of ppl who can give critiques, or both, we haven't yet figured out.

    Perhaps, instead of creating a new sub-forum, it would be better to make some concerted effort to incease the visibility and participation in the current Critique Corner.

    Just my few thoughts on this, but you can be assured that we will support good ideas.

    Can we include other form of critique apart from members work? Maybe instead of starting a subforum, you can allow people to have comment on masterclass works for the start. Let them expose to better works from professionals to make them understand what good photography involves.

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