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Thread: A nationalistic call for support!

  1. #1

    Default A nationalistic call for support!

    Since Creative has declared war on Apple,and Apple seemed to be very well prepared has launched a very strong counter-attack on Creative, there is going to be bloodshed to both, but since Apple has a much bigger financial muscle, Creative may be badly hurt this time.
    Whether you like it or not, Creative is a son of Singapore. Even if you dont like the products or the company or the management, etc .... it is time we Singaporeans should gather together our fullest support to this Son who has done our country proud for so many years.
    Wherever we go, at least we can see some signs or products of Creative, and we should really be proud of that, even if you hate the products or designs so much. Just imagine, if Creative is a Malaysian or Thai or Indonesian company, I think i still prefer that it is a Singaporean baby!
    From now on, being a Singaporean, I am going to support a true Singaporean's Company!
    Come join me in this nationalistic call ... think Creative!
    Last edited by Canonised; 7th June 2006 at 11:51 AM.
    always the Light, .... always.

  2. #2

    Default Re: A nationalistic call for support!

    On the nationalistic front, I cannot deny that they are a Singapore success story and we should support.

    However, I don't think being a registered or listed company in Singapore alone is enough. They have to do something more if what they want is for the people of Singapore to support them. Sometimes, I dont think that is what they are targetting for.

    I am a Creative supporter and have been for some years now since Soundblaster AWE32 and Nomad 1. I now own the Zen Vision which is probably one of the nicest product they have come up with.
    They have the innovation but what they have in features, they lack in packaging. Creative needs to shrug off the plasticky kind of products that they create because that is in the mindset of most users now. When you mention 'Creative' the response would be 'Great features.. but its not as cool as the iPod'
    Last edited by seankyh; 7th June 2006 at 12:04 PM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: A nationalistic call for support!

    That's truly amazing. How does Creative = Singapore?

    When Creative makes money, how does Singapore benefit? Other than the fact that they pay taxes to S'pore govt, of course, and that it more employs workers in Singapore (but no guarantee that the workers they employ are Singaporean, of course).

    When Creative loses money, how does Singapore suffer? Other than the fact that they pay less taxes to S'pore govt, of course, and that it will employ less workers than Singapore.

    When Creative makes product introductions, do they consult Singaporeans?

    When Creative removes products from the market, do they consult Singaporeans?

    Do the Articles of Association of the company require the company to locate in Singapore, use made in Singapore parts and labour, mandate that directors must be Singapore citizens, etc?

    If the answer is no to any or all of the above, why link Creative to Singapore?

    What Creative does is Creative's own business. Not Singapore's. Companies like Creative are in business to make money, not to fly any country's flag (unless it helps them make more money). Creative's shares are freely traded on Nasdaq, and anyone can buy them. In fact, the other large owners (other than Sim himself) are probably US fund managers representing pension institutions and other foreign investors.

    There is no reason Creative needs to be in Singapore or to employ workers here. The only reason they are here is because it makes business sense. If being in Singapore becomes unattractive for Creative, they can pack up and go. Creative has many offices and plants worldwide, and I think the total labour force outside Singapore exceeds that here.

    One day, if Sim decides to retire, he can sell his shares to anyone, Singaporean or otherwise. In fact, Sim could become a US citizen right now and it would make no difference to his ability to hold the CEO post. Would you then say we should no longer support Creative because the CEO is no longer Singaporean?

    This is not to say that we should not be proud of Creative. But in this case, it is a legal matter and should be settled according to the law. We should not side with Creative because it is Singapore company. We should side with the company only if what it did is legal.

    On the consumer side, I would buy a product because it meets my need at the right price point, not because it is made by Creative or other "Singaporean" company. Frankly, in this age of WTO, products are conceptualised in one country, parts are sourced from another, assembled in another, distributed worldwide via Internet and supported worldwide through call centres located in India or Philippines.

    How to define a "Singaporean" product any more?
    ===

    Nationalism, gone overboard, is a big problem especially in Asia. Look at what happened in Thailand with Shincorp as an example. Same things happened in Korea and in Malaysia. Whenever a foreign company wants to buy a "local" company, people become xenophobic.

    Developed countries are not immune to this of course, eg. Global Crossing a few years back and the recently scuppered US ports deal.

    What the nationalists and "patriots" did not realise is how their actions harmed the countries' economies.

    ===
    Quote Originally Posted by Canonised
    Since Creative has declared war on Apple,and Apple seemed to be very well prepared has launched a very strong counter-attack on Creative, there is going to be bloodshed to both, but since Apple has a much bigger financial muscle, Creative may be badly hurt this time.
    Whether you like it or not, Creative is a son of Singapore. Even if you dont like the products or the company or the management, etc .... it is time we Singaporeans should gather together our fullest support to this Son who has done our country proud for so many years.
    Wherever we go, at least we can see some signs or products of Creative, and we should really be proud of that, even if you hate the products or designs so much. Just imagine, if Creative is a Malaysian or Thai or Indonesian company, I think i still prefer that it is a Singaporean baby!
    From now on, being a Singaporean, I am going to support a true Singaporean's Company!
    Come join me in this nationalistic call ... think Creative!
    Last edited by waileong; 7th June 2006 at 12:33 PM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: A nationalistic call for support!

    Brudder waileong, your thinking is really more amazing!
    Just give yourself a moment to imagine, let say there was never a Creative. Of course life would be the same for most of us, and esp you, but do you know how many people and companies in Singapore who have worked directly and indirectly for Creative in the past so many years have benefitted? And these employees and shareholders have contributed much to their families.
    IF it was a foreign company, do you think these ppl or our country would have gained anything?
    Let's not cheat ourselves, Creative is a son of Singapore and we should be proud of it. IF there was never a Creative, think of soundcards, mp3 players, etc... you will be thinking of Japan, Korea, China, etc... Can you accept this fact?
    Given this choice, I still prefer that it is produced by someone from my country, and we should be proud of it.
    Last edited by Canonised; 7th June 2006 at 12:44 PM.
    always the Light, .... always.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: A nationalistic call for support!

    Quote Originally Posted by Canonised
    Since Creative has declared war on Apple,and Apple seemed to be very well prepared has launched a very strong counter-attack on Creative, there is going to be bloodshed to both, but since Apple has a much bigger financial muscle, Creative may be badly hurt this time.
    Whether you like it or not, Creative is a son of Singapore. Even if you dont like the products or the company or the management, etc .... it is time we Singaporeans should gather together our fullest support to this Son who has done our country proud for so many years.
    Wherever we go, at least we can see some signs or products of Creative, and we should really be proud of that, even if you hate the products or designs so much. Just imagine, if Creative is a Malaysian or Thai or Indonesian company, I think i still prefer that it is a Singaporean baby!
    From now on, being a Singaporean, I am going to support a true Singaporean's Company!
    Come join me in this nationalistic call ... think Creative!
    When Creative went public listing and global, legalities and facing the full backlash of the global free economy is one of those perils they ought to overcome.

    I think putting a Nationalistic call on a normal litigation between 2 private businesses is extremely lame. Assuming if the collapse of Creative would bring the Republic of Singapore down on its knees and destroy the very sovergnity we enjoyed for the past 40yrs to get invaded and see 1942 all over again, I guess it would be a reasonable appeal.

    But lets get facts straight and not let Nationalistic zeal get into the way of logical thinking:
    - Apple launched their 5GB iPod at a 'ridiculous price' of $748 at the beginning of the Millennium. Ridicule hit Apple faster than it could push its product out.
    - The introduction of 'Windows version' of the iPod became a roaring success.
    - Creative in a bid to play catchup, flooded the market with MP3 players.
    - Another bid to play catchup, followed the simplistic marketing model of the iPod and if Apple had U2, Creative had Paris Hilton.
    - Sim Wong Hoo literally 'declared war' on the iPod when all Steve Jobs and Apple did were just to introduce extremely strong competition to other brands of MP3 players.
    - Creative gets copyright of hierarchical file system
    - Creative 'pre-empt attack' and sued Apple for utilising their 'patented' hierarchical file system in their iPods.

    Up till now, Apple had never sued any companies in a bid to retain their stranglehold on the MP3 market but simply to push out, alongside the regular iPods, iPod Nano, iPod Shuffle. When Creative's catchups with the Zen Micro, Zen Photo, Zen failed, they resorted to litigation.

    Though businesses are never abt ethics, this is one punch below the belt initiated by Creative first to which Apple merely responded in kind, 3 times over. U nationalistic guys, say what u wish, but to support a crying kicking baby who sued to have a larger share of the candy ain't gonna get my support. It would count itself lucky if I dun personally add fuel to fire by telling all my friends to boycott all Creative products.
    "Wonders of the Human Mind. Unfathomable to the highest degree."

  6. #6

    Default Re: A nationalistic call for support!

    If Creative is serious about competing with Apple, it should spend more money/pay more attention to its MP3 design and marketing, rather than going by the lame sue' way
    Ask your children, which mp3 player do they want, iPod or Creative? (no prize for the answer)

    Calling Singaporeans to support Creative is another lame effort. Creative is going to loose big time!
    Last edited by cocoa; 7th June 2006 at 04:06 PM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: A nationalistic call for support!

    Singapore economy is dominated by MNC's. You can see that everywhere you go. It was the key strategy in the govt starting in the 70's to bring in foreign investment.

    These companies helped Singapore industrialise and achieve its spectacular economic growth starting in the 70's, enabling us to become one of the four Asian tiger economies.

    Who are you to say that foreign companies don't benefit Singapore, or that they don't benefit the country?

    Over the years, we've been spoonfed the idea that foreign companies have no stake in Singapore, they can pack up anytime they want, etc. While that is true, there is no reason why a company started by Singaporeans should be in Singapore either.

    In fact, there are successful companies in US started by Singaporeans in Silicon Valley during the dotcom era, as an example. They may never wish to be in Singapore because the market is there, not here. They may never benefit Singaporeans or Singapore.

    What I mean by the above is that companies look after their shareholders' interests, and shareholders are mainly interested in making money. Nationalism has no place on the corporate agenda.

    If there was never a Creative, some other company would have invented sound cards, I'm pretty sure of it. Whether this company (lets call it X) would have come to Singapore would depend on the marketing efforts of EDB and other govt agencies.

    If EDB managed to persuade X to come to Singapore, perhaps it would have employed even more workers and benefited Singapore economy more than Creative did. Who knows?

    If EDB did not manage to persuade X to come to Singapore, I'm quite sure they would have moved on to try to get some other companies to come to Singapore, to meet their quota.

    The benefit to Singapore would not have been much different, if EDB did its job. Singaporeans would still have jobs (maybe even better jobs) and the benefits to them and their families would still be the same. Shareholders who would have invested in Creative could have invested in X, or any other company that could have helped them make money.

    How does that make Singapore worse off?

    ===

    Nationalism is a good thing in that it creates patriotism and pride. However, it can also be exploited for the wrong purposes, eg. China stoking anti-Japanese flames, US senators opposing Dubai World's takeover of US port operations, "national" car projects in Indonesia and Malaysia.

    One should not be blindly nationalistic.

    Indonesia wasted so much money on its "national" car project because of national pride. This was real money, taxpayers' money, that went to subsidise inefficient "national" carmakers with shoddy products. Now with the benefit of hindsight, people can see that a car is a car, whether it's made in Japan or Thailand or China is immaterial, what's important is that the people benefit from having cost-competitive products that meet their needs. People now also realise that using taxpayer's money to subsidise car production was wrong when there were so many other social needs.

    Whether a product is made by "Singaporeans" is immaterial. Most products, including Creative's, are now made in China. It is now a global supply chain. What's important is whether the product benefits the user, and whether the country benefits as a whole.

    Quote Originally Posted by Canonised
    Brudder waileong, your thinking is really more amazing!
    Just give yourself a moment to imagine, let say there was never a Creative. Of course life would be the same for most of us, and esp you, but do you know how many people and companies in Singapore who have worked directly and indirectly for Creative in the past so many years have benefitted? And these employees and shareholders have contributed much to their families.
    IF it was a foreign company, do you think these ppl or our country would have gained anything?
    Let's not cheat ourselves, Creative is a son of Singapore and we should be proud of it. IF there was never a Creative, think of soundcards, mp3 players, etc... you will be thinking of Japan, Korea, China, etc... Can you accept this fact?
    Given this choice, I still prefer that it is produced by someone from my country, and we should be proud of it.
    Last edited by waileong; 7th June 2006 at 01:08 PM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: A nationalistic call for support!

    Just don't tell your friends to boycott "Singapore" products.

    Creative <> Singapore, ok?

    Wai Leong
    ===
    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn
    It would count itself lucky if I dun personally add fuel to fire by telling all my friends to boycott all Creative products.

  9. #9

    Default Re: A nationalistic call for support!

    I didn't realize the TS wanted us to support Creative in the court case against Apple just because it is a Singaporean company.

    That is just wrong.

    If Creative wants me to support them, they will have to give me a year's supply of whatever new products they may have. Or.. just give me an iPod...

    WaiLeong, really like your comments here. Very insightful!

  10. #10
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    Default Re: A nationalistic call for support!

    Creative != Singapore != Creative.

    This point is clear as day.

    If Apple's iPod sucked horribly with bad UI and bad interface, I would speak against it as well. Unfortunately, the only bad point abt the iPod is that they made it so good.

    If any of u started with the original 5GB iPod right up till the current 5th incarnation of the video iPod, u guys would have seen the iPod evolved from being the point of ridicule (an overpriced MP3 Player) to the point of success.
    "Wonders of the Human Mind. Unfathomable to the highest degree."

  11. #11

    Default Re: A nationalistic call for support!

    1. Yes, I can accept this fact. Most of the products we use are made by non-Singaporean companies, eg. Canon, Nikon, Leica, BMW, Metz, Microsoft, IBM, etc. What difference does it make if the soundcard I use is also made by a non-Singaporean company.

    2. Creative is not a son of Singapore. If you like, Creative is the son of Sim Wong Hoo (although it's sad that he has no human children at this time).

    Wai Leong
    ===
    Quote Originally Posted by Canonised
    Let's not cheat ourselves, Creative is a son of Singapore and we should be proud of it. IF there was never a Creative, think of soundcards, mp3 players, etc... you will be thinking of Japan, Korea, China, etc... Can you accept this fact?

    Given this choice, I still prefer that it is produced by someone from my country, and we should be proud of it.

  12. #12

    Default Re: A nationalistic call for support!

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong
    Sim Wong Hoo (although it's sad that he has no human children at this time).

    Wai Leong
    ===
    Brudder, dont say that ..... this is a personal attack, not so nice.
    Everyone has his own problems and reasons for having or not having one.
    and what so sad about having or not having one?
    always the Light, .... always.

  13. #13

    Default Re: A nationalistic call for support!

    I will support Creative if it has something I want. I did support Creative when it was the king of the sound cards. Sound Blaster was a great product. I am not a Singaporean, but I still bought quite a few Sound Blaster over the years.

    Now, this call to support Creative, well, my question is, show me the products I want, then I will support Creative. If Creative is going to show me it's line up of mp3 players, I will politely say, "Thankyou, but no thanks. Do try to come up with something better than the iPod, then we can talk."

    Creative is a business. As a business, it has to have products the consumer wants, and the ability to deliver the products to the consumer. apparently, in the mp3 space, Creative does not have the product the consumer wants.
    deadpoet
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  14. #14

    Default Re: A nationalistic call for support!

    Huh... So well said about supporting Creative "even though we may not like its products" simply because it was started by a fellow Sporean... But what exactly is this support all about? How to do it?

  15. #15

    Default Re: A nationalistic call for support!

    personally, i've had it with apple fanboys since a decade ago and with the advent of ipods, things have become even worse. so by default, i'll put my shoulder behind Creative even though i know my puny little purchases aren't doing much.
    Last edited by feryl; 7th June 2006 at 03:47 PM.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: A nationalistic call for support!

    I am singaporean I contributed to the nation by means of national service, GST, Road Tax, ERP and fines. I want to buy a new 12-24.. support me?
    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” - Adolf Hitler

  17. #17
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    Default Re: A nationalistic call for support!

    I support only Nikon.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: A nationalistic call for support!

    Quote Originally Posted by espn
    I support only Nikon.
    So.... based on Canonised logic.... you are a Jeep Pun Kia...
    Hai ee-ass-pee-ennn san!

  19. #19
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    Default Re: A nationalistic call for support!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zplus
    So.... based on Canonised logic.... you are a Jeep Pun Kia...
    Hai ee-ass-pee-ennn san!
    Like that also can?

  20. #20

    Default Re: A nationalistic call for support!

    oh grow up...creative is only a local company. and they only have themselves to blame for the sorry position they are in now. put it down to their lack of creativity and poor marketing decisions. it's time they get off their sorry asses and put on their creative thinking caps to get the company moving forward again.

    i have bought their soundblaster live cards and soundworks speakers sets. now i'm waiting for them to come up with another product worth buying. maybe i should post a pic of a new muvo v200 mp3 player...you can see the shoddy workmanship.

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