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Thread: Ok to use old+new batt for flash ?

  1. #1
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    Default Ok to use old+new batt for flash ?

    Hi Guys,
    Anybody has any negative experience of using old+new batt in combination in flash?
    Assuming that the batt are all the same brand.

    Initials thanks for your insight.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Ok to use old+new batt for flash ?

    Better not, for the safety of your flash system.
    Canon EOS 5D, 24-70 f/4 L IS, 50 f/1.2 L, 70-300 f/4-5.6 L IS, 600EX-RT. Sigma 12-24 f/4.5-5.6 EX.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Ok to use old+new batt for flash ?

    There is a lot of bad information about batteries. Manufacturers want us to buy their brand, never mix brand, use always fresh ones and so on. That is just bulls**t. If you have batteries with the same basic capacity (mAh), I would say there is no risk for anything. Except, if they are already used in different things, they may not contain the same charge, meaning that the ones that are less charged will give up first, before all are discharged, leaving you to belive all batteries are flat. So actually, it is bad for your wallet and the environment, but can never hurt your flash or any other equipment.

    Rechargable batteries should have the same maximum capacity (mAh) if you mix them.
    Don't ever mix rechargable of different kind, for example NiMH and NiCd, or rechargable with non rechargable.
    Don't ever mix non rechargables of different kind eigther, for example Alkaline an Lithium.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Ok to use old+new batt for flash ?

    Quote Originally Posted by OlyFlyer
    Except, if they are already used in different things, they may not contain the same charge, meaning that the ones that are less charged will give up first, before all are discharged, leaving you to belive all batteries are flat. So actually, it is bad for your wallet and the environment, but can never hurt your flash or any other equipment.
    This is not true. When combining grossly mismatched cells, the cell that is discharged first will not only be charged by the others on continued use of the flash, but also with wrong polarity. This is a good method to cause cells to leak (if not burst) and destroy otherwise still usable rechargeable cells.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Ok to use old+new batt for flash ?

    Quote Originally Posted by betazone
    Hi Guys,
    Anybody has any negative experience of using old+new batt in combination in flash?
    Assuming that the batt are all the same brand.

    Initials thanks for your insight.
    You run the risk of having the old batteries totally discharged while the fresh ones are still driving a current through it. This will cause a over-discharged in the flat batteries. It can damage the the flat batteries. In extreme case, there is a small possibility of the cells leaking or even exploding.

    BC

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Ok to use old+new batt for flash ?

    Do not mix batteries of different charge levels unless the instructions tell u that it is alright.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Ok to use old+new batt for flash ?

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleWolf
    This is not true. When combining grossly mismatched cells, the cell that is discharged first will not only be charged by the others on continued use of the flash, but also with wrong polarity. This is a good method to cause cells to leak (if not burst) and destroy otherwise still usable rechargeable cells.
    I agree fully, maybe I wasn't clear, if batteries are differently discharged, they shall not be grossly mismatched, that is clear. Anyway, I think if you mix grossly discharged batteries with fresh ones, the falsh won't work because of the voltage drop.

    Best is to use equally charged or discharged ones. Mixing of brands (Sony, Panasonic etc.) does not matter, as long as they are the same type.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Ok to use old+new batt for flash ?

    Quote Originally Posted by solarii
    Do not mix batteries of different charge levels unless the instructions tell u that it is alright.
    Instruction will never tell you that. They always say "Use only fresh batteries of the same brand, when you change, change all..." or something similar. That is the best methode, but I think here we are talking about an Emergency situation. Golden rule is never mix, unless you have to.

    Also, betazone asks if we have any bad experience. And the answer so far is:

    "No, because we always do a certain way, some follows the instructions, some have the knowledge and able to judge what is possible or not to mix."

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Ok to use old+new batt for flash ?

    Quote Originally Posted by betazone
    Hi Guys,
    Anybody has any negative experience of using old+new batt in combination in flash?
    Assuming that the batt are all the same brand.

    Initials thanks for your insight.
    Don't have any bad experience yet (touch wood). But it is true, better not to mix old and new battery. If the battery manufacturer suggested not to mix old and new battery, they are not bully you.

    Regards,
    Arto.

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    Default Re: Ok to use old+new batt for flash ?

    Every mfgr want to get themselve out of lawsuit by putting disclaimer such that we cannot go back to them if we mix battery of different make.

    Each mfgr use different type of meterial/chemical therefore the discharge/resistance could be different heat give out also different.

    "use at your own risk"

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    Default Re: Ok to use old+new batt for flash ?

    Quote Originally Posted by longkangman
    Every mfgr want to get themselve out of lawsuit by putting disclaimer such that we cannot go back to them if we mix battery of different make.

    Each mfgr use different type of meterial/chemical therefore the discharge/resistance could be different heat give out also different.

    "use at your own risk"
    Correct.

    I remember one of my friend who working in battery factory say even all the batteries in one batch is not the same. They will check the voltage, and only +/- (I forgot how much, maybe 3) % is pass the QC.

    Regards,
    Arto.

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    Default Re: Ok to use old+new batt for flash ?

    Thanks everyone for the insight.
    My problem comes about as I drop one of the four GP 2300 batt while changing flash batt yesterday, causing a huge dent at a corner of batt. Now I dunno what to do with the remaining three.
    I guess for safety sake I'll just buy brand new set of four.....better be safe than sorry

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Ok to use old+new batt for flash ?

    Although I try to use the same batch of batteries for flash/cam, I often mix several brands/current ratings (coz 1 cell died or lost 1 battery etc) .. my mix includes 1600mAh GP, 1700mAh Sony, 1800mAh GP, 1800mAh MinWa . Nothing bad has happened to me yet ...

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Ok to use old+new batt for flash ?

    i think, i rather fall for the mfg trick, and get new batt everytime, rather than to risk it.
    D70s-er Since 2005

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    Default Re: Ok to use old+new batt for flash ?

    So to summarise it all...DON'T MIX.
    Canon EOS 5D, 24-70 f/4 L IS, 50 f/1.2 L, 70-300 f/4-5.6 L IS, 600EX-RT. Sigma 12-24 f/4.5-5.6 EX.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Ok to use old+new batt for flash ?

    Quote Originally Posted by OlyFlyer
    Instruction will never tell you that. They always say "Use only fresh batteries of the same brand, when you change, change all..." or something similar. That is the best methode, but I think here we are talking about an Emergency situation. Golden rule is never mix, unless you have to.

    Also, betazone asks if we have any bad experience. And the answer so far is:

    "No, because we always do a certain way, some follows the instructions, some have the knowledge and able to judge what is possible or not to mix."
    HELLO.... you obviously haven't read the instruction manuals of Canon battery grips. They allow you to use battery packs (not AA batteries though) of different charge levels.

    Never say never unless you've read every instruction manual on earth.

    U haven't right? Before u try to rebut others, get your facts straight.
    Last edited by solarii; 8th June 2006 at 05:51 PM.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Ok to use old+new batt for flash ?

    Quote Originally Posted by solarii
    HELLO.... you obviously haven't read the instruction manuals of Canon battery grips. They allow you to use battery packs (not AA batteries though) of different charge levels.

    Never say never unless you've read every instruction manual on earth.

    U haven't right? Before u try to rebut others, get your facts straight.
    Why getting so uptight and angry? No, I did not read all the manuals on earth and never will. I ususally read manuals, but don't find them that exciting that I am interested in reading manuals of 'wrong brand'. Wrong because I do not have a Canon, not because something wrong with Canon. And why don't you say, hey LittleWood you are all wrong... I think he said first, I just agree with him, and still do. Canon must have a magic battery grip, because LittleWolf is 100% right, he says:

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleWood
    When combining grossly mismatched cells, the cell that is discharged first will not only be charged by the others on continued use of the flash, but also with wrong polarity. This is a good method to cause cells to leak (if not burst) and destroy otherwise still usable rechargeable cells.
    Batteries will get the wrong polarity. That is a fact. It is all simply about how electric current flows. And current flows the same way even for Canon battery grips, unless it uses special batteries that senses current direction and reverse polarity whenever needed.

    You mean ALL CANON BATTERY GRIPS? You really read all Canon battery grip manuals? Since you don't mention model, I assume ALL Canon battery grips or...Or does your comment only applies ONE model, the one you have? And btw, AA is a size not a type, so why can't you mix them? Maybe because of the current flow? For me a battery pack is one single package. Some times a batterry pack contains several individually replacable batteries, these can have the size AA. Some battery packs contain special batteries. So, how is a battery pack in your Canon?

    Share the knowledge you have, not just jump and attack! You should have said that from the beginning, nobody would have questioned your facts.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Ok to use old+new batt for flash ?

    Quote Originally Posted by solarii
    HELLO.... you obviously haven't read the instruction manuals of Canon battery grips. They allow you to use battery packs (not AA batteries though) of different charge levels.

    Never say never unless you've read every instruction manual on earth.

    U haven't right? Before u try to rebut others, get your facts straight.
    I think (and it should be) because Canon battery grips have electronic controller inside the grip that will regulate/switch which battery should be use first until no power before switch to other. I believe it is the same thing to Olympus battery (vertical) grip also, which can use 1 Li-ION battery only or 2 Li-ION batteries.

    Above its true for battery pack, which usually battery grip can take max 2 only. Using Ni-MH/Ni-Cd or alkaline battery, 4 or 6 batteries (or any quantity), they will put in series. That's Littlewolf explanation will put in effect.

    If you know about electronics, you know what I mean .

    Regards,
    Arto.
    Last edited by Artosoft; 9th June 2006 at 10:29 AM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Ok to use old+new batt for flash ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Artosoft
    I think (and it should be) because Canon battery grips have electronic controller inside the grip that will regulate/switch which battery should be use first until no power before switch to other. I believe it is the same thing to Olympus battery (vertical) grip also, which can use 1 Li-ION battery only or 2 Li-ION batteries.

    Above its true for battery pack, which usually battery grip can take max 2 only. Using Ni-MH/Ni-Cd or alkaline battery, 4 or 6 batteries (or any quantity), they will put in series. That's Littlewolf explanation will put in effect.

    If you know about electronics, you know what I mean .

    Regards,
    Arto.
    Aaah! Battery packs connected in parallell. Thats a completly different story. I havn't thoght of that. There is no warning for that in my ancient T32 Grip 2 manual. The grip uses also 4 batteries of different sizes and capacity than the 4 in flash, the two groups are connected in parallell and that's obviously no problem at all. It only warns about if change in the grip, or in the flash, always change all four. I was actually thinking of the complexity of mixing serially connected batteries with different charges. So there is actually no magic Canon battery at all. Facts are important, so is knowledge. Thanks for the information, Arto.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Ok to use old+new batt for flash ?

    Quote Originally Posted by OlyFlyer
    Aaah! Battery packs connected in parallell. Thats a completly different story. I havn't thoght of that. There is no warning for that in my ancient T32 Grip 2 manual. The grip uses also 4 batteries of different sizes and capacity than the 4 in flash, the two groups are connected in parallell and that's obviously no problem at all. It only warns about if change in the grip, or in the flash, always change all four. I was actually thinking of the complexity of mixing serially connected batteries with different charges. So there is actually no magic Canon battery at all. Facts are important, so is knowledge. Thanks for the information, Arto.
    You are welcome .

    But you know ha, can not just suka-suka put battery in parallel. Must have a regulator/controller circuit. A simple one is 2 diodes on positive of each battery.

    Regards,
    Arto.

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