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Thread: Who should do the interpolation?

  1. #21

    Default Re: Who should do the interpolation?

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin
    Is this the 100% crop of the original image?
    If so, I think the quality's too lousy for acceptable blowups.


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  2. #22
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    Default Re: Who should do the interpolation?

    Quote Originally Posted by AReality
    Is this the 100% crop of the original image?
    If so, I think the quality's too lousy for acceptable blowups.


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    yes this is the 100% crop of original crop. that's D70s+sigma lens quality at 100% if you like, and yyk is using D70. show me a picture blown up to 1600% and still remain presentable and we'll talk.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Who should do the interpolation?

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin
    if there is any, feel free to share it with the folks here.
    Ayoooh, that is not a good sample - the only part of the phot that is actually in focus is at the top of the petals where there is not much detail to see in the first place. Anyway, I took a few pixels from slightly below (left edge of the left petal) that is slightly out of focus to start with; so don't expect wonders. All operations performed using free software, nothing fancy involved at all.

    Pixels upsampled 16 times (cubic interpolation, i.e. a rather low-tech and computationally inexpensive algorithm):


    Hmmm, not that much pixelation. But an ugly halo from sharpening... Sharpening also results in slight distortion of the image, which leads to a certain jagginess.

    Anyway, since there's all the artefacts anyway, not much harm is done by sharpening it a bit now:


    Ok, so it still looks ugly. So add some dusting of makeup powder (I.e. noise) to hide the artefacts:


    Objectively, image quality has greatly decreased. Subjectively, most people would think this image is sharper/has more detail than the one before... The quality at this point is IMHO quite reasonable for a 6m wide image (that's wider than most advertising boards).

    However, if you're viewing this on a computer screen, you're actually seeing an enlarged version! Typical computer screen resolution is on the order of 100 ppi - the target resolution for print discussed earlier was 200 ppi. So, if the image is scaled down (50% linear), it is a more accurate representation of what one would expect in print:



    IMHO this is quite decent for 6m wide wallpaper, particularly in view that the original image was out of focus to begin with.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Who should do the interpolation?

    duh

    i will not contest your idea of acceptability, for me any picture originally of the dimension of 3000X2000 pixels blown up 16 times (actually any picture blown up 16 times) is deemed unacceptable in quality, not matter how wonderfully sharp it originally is. you can write paragraphs and paragraphs on this, but the fact is that the 6m image that the threadstarter wanted to have printed is to be put inside a room viewed at close range.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Who should do the interpolation?

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin
    for me any picture originally of the dimension of 3000X2000 pixels blown up 16 times (actually any picture blown up 16 times) is deemed unacceptable in quality,
    Oooooh, you have high standards. Do you ever go to the movies? Hmmm... how much is the tiny image on 35mm film blown up when projected?

    the fact is that the 6m image that the threadstarter wanted to have printed is to be put inside a room viewed at close range.
    Fact is also that the blown up image does not suffer from pixelation, and that the thread starter was talking about advertisement quality

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Who should do the interpolation?

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleWolf
    Oooooh, you have high standards. Do you ever go to the movies? Hmmm... how much is the tiny image on 35mm film blown up when projected?


    Quote Originally Posted by LittleWolf
    Fact is also that the blown up image does not suffer from pixelation, and that the thread starter was talking about advertisement quality
    you amaze me with your kind of knowledge, i'm more than impressed. please help our friend here solve his problem, i'll love to see the result.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Who should do the interpolation?

    relax guys

    first of, it's advertisment quality...is it used for advertising?...does client know the effects of blowing the image to that size? I always make it a point to explain and make sure they undertstand...

    I agree with LittleWolf...a sharp 6MP file blown to 6m x 3m should be acceptable...at advertising quality, not at fine art quality...heck, for that size and viewing at 1.5m, I should think printing at 72dpi should be enough...

    if just using photoshop, try upsizing by 10% each time till you reach required size, using 4 times of bicubic smoother and then 1 time bicubic sharper...finally give it a pinch of noise and sharpen it to taste

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Who should do the interpolation?

    Quote Originally Posted by theRBK
    relax guys

    first of, it's advertisment quality...is it used for advertising?...does client know the effects of blowing the image to that size? I always make it a point to explain and make sure they undertstand...

    I agree with LittleWolf...a sharp 6MP file blown to 6m x 3m should be acceptable...at advertising quality, not at fine art quality...heck, for that size and viewing at 1.5m, I should think printing at 72dpi should be enough...

    if just using photoshop, try upsizing by 10% each time till you reach required size, using 4 times of bicubic smoother and then 1 time bicubic sharper...finally give it a pinch of noise and sharpen it to taste
    what the fish...

    please guys, read properly, the print is used inside a room as part of an interior design concept. it is not an advertisement.

    duh

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Who should do the interpolation?

    i give up on you guys, just choosing what you want to read and omit the real problem.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Who should do the interpolation?

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin
    what the fish...

    please guys, read properly, the print is used inside a room as part of an interior design concept. it is not an advertisement.

    duh
    I have read the TS's post...interior design concept can be for advertising (show room) or for personal home design, etc.

    prints are about compromise between size and quality...as long as client understands the constraints, there should be no problem...if unacceptable to client, then they can get another similar image at higher resolution...no need to get worked up

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Who should do the interpolation?

    Quote Originally Posted by theRBK
    I have read the TS's post...interior design concept can be for advertising (show room) or for personal home design, etc.

    prints are about compromise between size and quality...as long as client understands the constraints, there should be no problem...if unacceptable to client, then they can get another similar image at higher resolution...no need to get worked up
    well, anyone who still thinks that a 16 times blow up of whatever image viewed at close range of up to 1.5m is a reasonable compromise ought to get some check on the eyesight.

    i'm angry not because of difference of methods, but simply because there are those who choose to be narrow minded and pick on small things to talk about and neglect the hard fact.

    i've done enough large prints to know what quality and compromise is about. duh

  12. #32

    Default Re: Who should do the interpolation?

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin
    well, anyone who still thinks that a 16 times blow up of whatever image viewed at close range of up to 1.5m is a reasonable compromise ought to get some check on the eyesight.

    i'm angry not because of difference of methods, but simply because there are those who choose to be narrow minded and pick on small things to talk about and neglect the hard fact.

    i've done enough large prints to know what quality and compromise is about. duh
    And you assume that others have not? What we can do is to give our opinions and the TS's client is the one how decides one way or the other

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Who should do the interpolation?

    Quote Originally Posted by theRBK
    And you assume that others have not? What we can do is to give our opinions and the TS's client is the one how decides one way or the other
    well, if one continues to pick on methods and not the fact of the outcome, yes, i assume the narrow minded-ness of whoever that is.

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Who should do the interpolation?

    It's kinda getting heated in here. Thanks everyone for your valuable inputs. I have already told the 'room owners' that printing at such a big size will sure end up with pixelation and blurness. They've acknowledge this fact but I just want to try to give them something to remember (in the positive way) instead of blaming the printers for not interpolating my picture before printing.

    On the other hand, I do not know much about interpolation so I was thinking that the printers being professionals should have better tools to do it than me.

    Appreciated everybody's input.

    theRBK: I read your method and followed the link you gave in the other post before starting this thread. thanks for sharing!
    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” - Adolf Hitler

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Who should do the interpolation?

    Quote Originally Posted by theRBK
    And you assume that others have not? What we can do is to give our opinions and the TS's client is the one how decides one way or the other
    not client lah.. I not up to standard yet. It's for my friend's project/mini-exhibition. maybe when it's open I can invite you guys to see the final output.
    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” - Adolf Hitler

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Who should do the interpolation?

    Quote Originally Posted by yanyewkay
    not client lah.. I not up to standard yet. It's for my friend's project/mini-exhibition. maybe when it's open I can invite you guys to see the final output.
    anyway, here is a slightly sharper 100% crop. Maybe someone wants to try?

    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” - Adolf Hitler

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Who should do the interpolation?

    here's my crappy take on the 1600% interpolation

    print view size (200dpi version)


    monitor view size (left - 200dpi magnified version / right original 300dpi version)


    if you ask me, no it cannot fulfil your friend's theme of whatever realism that's to be shown, the only realism that exist here is the fact that the image is maginified beyond perception's ability to fool the mind that it still look like the 'real thing,' digitalization is the realism of the image.
    Last edited by eikin; 23rd May 2006 at 02:57 PM.

  18. #38

    Default Re: Who should do the interpolation?

    Quote Originally Posted by yanyewkay
    anyway, here is a slightly sharper 100% crop. Maybe someone wants to try?

    how big is this portion going to be wrt to the whole image? maybe can try with the whole image

  19. #39
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    Default Re: Who should do the interpolation?

    as phildate said, just use genuine fractals.
    or do it the slow and manual way.. using bicubic smoother, resize 5% larger at a time, and do minor sharpening after 3-4 cycles and repeat until u get desired size.
    sigh.

  20. #40

    Default Re: Who should do the interpolation?

    What really matter is the whole picture.



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