D70 to D200?

[Rev]

So how many out there blame KRW for their upgrade? =D
Wanted to do a poll but didnt know how to...

Looking to upgrade from a d70 to d200... typically, I shoot inanimate objects like cars, architechure, abstract & landscape. The D70 is very good already but the noise is starting annoy me at 8X11 prints for my clients. Not sure if the d200 is a major leap for me except for the following reasons...

Pros
1. ISO100, more megapixels, I tend to crop my pics (it's a disease, I know)
2. Relatively less noise up to ISO800 compared to D70
3. 5FPS > 3FPS, the 2FPS difference is quite critical for even better panning shots
4. Faster AF, more AF points, more flexibility on where to focus for moving objects
5. Weather seal, good durability for all seasons
6. Lighter, cheaper than d2x, can attach/detach vertical grip
7. Slightly bigger viewfinder

Cons
1. Not much cons, it's a mini-D2X that's slightly heavier than the d70
2. Not sure if the batt issue is resolved
3. Canon has better noise control but we all know real men use.................

I'll definitely go down, do the cf-card tryout thing but still would like to hear U guys share yr thoughts/reasons for getting a d200...

Much appreciated...

[espn]

Originally Posted by Rev Pros 1. ISO100, more megapixels, I tend to crop my pics (it's a disease, I know)

This is not a pro to me. It's a con. Too much MP means larger CF storage means don't learn to frame properly before shooting.

Originally Posted by Rev 2. Relatively less noise up to ISO800 compared to D70

Not a pro also. Noise is as bad as you underexpose it. If exposed properly, ISO800 can be very clean.

Originally Posted by Rev 3. 5FPS > 3FPS, the 2FPS difference is quite critical for even better panning shots

Not a pro especially if you say panning, it's the technique not the burst.

Originally Posted by Rev 4. Faster AF, more AF points, more flexibility on where to focus for moving objects

Passable.

Originally Posted by Rev 5. Weather seal, good durability for all seasons

I've been in the rain with a D100, flash mounted, no problems whatsoever, the strength of the seal is as good as it's weakest seal.

Originally Posted by Rev 6. Lighter, cheaper than d2x, can attach/detach vertical grip

Bingo, very good point here.

Originally Posted by Rev 7. Slightly bigger viewfinder

You must be kidding! It's not SLIGHTLY, it's VERY heeeheee..

Originally Posted by Rev Cons 1. Not much cons, it's a mini-D2X that's slightly heavier than the d70

This is a PRO actually, try it out with the other bigger glasses and do a very good hand-holding stance, you'll love the weight of the D200.

Originally Posted by Rev 2. Not sure if the batt issue is resolved

What battery issue?

Originally Posted by Rev 3. Canon has better noise control but we all know real men use.................

Noise at the expense of details?

Originally Posted by Rev I'll definitely go down, do the cf-card tryout thing but still would like to hear U guys share yr thoughts/reasons for getting a d200...

At 70% functionality of a D2X, 45% cost of the D2X, comes with BUILT IN FLASH. Seriously, what's there to think about?

[Rev]

thanks espn,
umm, if some of the features here are 'passable' then it's not 70% functionality of d2x anymore isit? heh

OT: for good panning, 1fps is enough, but to get good shots where the vehicle is accelerating/decelerating, then 2 more fps is not critical but it makes more convinient, no? thats what I meant... Or yr timing is spot on? =)

[espn]

Originally Posted by Rev thanks espn, umm, if some of the features here are 'passable' then it's not 70% functionality of d2x anymore isit? heh

I meant passable to the AF comparison, not the entire camera.

Originally Posted by Rev OT: for good panning, 1fps is enough, but to get good shots where the vehicle is accelerating/decelerating, then 2 more fps is not critical but it makes more convinient, no? thats what I meant... Or yr timing is spot on? =)

No, panning has nothing to do with timing, it's to do with technique, if you do it right, 1 fps, 0.5 fps 0.1fps also can get the shot.

[wildstallion]

Originally Posted by espn I meant passable to the AF comparison, not the entire camera. No, panning has nothing to do with timing, it's to do with technique, if you do it right, 1 fps, 0.5 fps 0.1fps also can get the shot.

Yeah, but with 0.1FPS you may miss an oppertunity, the 5FPS gives you more chance to catch the action before it dissappears, 5 different shots instead of just 1, i think this is what Rev means, or thats how i interrpreted it anyway

[espn]

Originally Posted by wildstallion Yeah, but with 0.1FPS you may miss an oppertunity, the 5FPS gives you more chance to catch the action before it dissappears, 5 different shots instead of just 1, i think this is what Rev means, or thats how i interrpreted it anyway

I was talking in reference to 'panning' shoot, not action shoot. Thereby, 5fps or 1fps makes no difference. It's the technique.

[wildstallion]

Originally Posted by espn I was talking in reference to 'panning' shoot, not action shoot. Thereby, 5fps or 1fps makes no difference. It's the technique.

I know, but for example, if you were panning on a bird yes you may get one very gd shot with the technique, but with more fps you could catch many gd shots, wings at different levels etc instead of just the one shot, who knows when u will see the bird again, this is just an example where gd technique and more fps is an adv in panning

[espn]

Originally Posted by wildstallion I know, but for example, if you were panning on a bird yes you may get one very gd shot with the technique, but with more fps you could catch many gd shots, wings at different levels etc instead of just the one shot, who knows when u will see the bird again, this is just an example where gd technique and more fps is and adv in panning

Ok, since you say so.

[Rev]

humm... wildstallion is right tho, the 5fps is more useful for shots that have interesting details that could be lost during the 2fps difference to 3fps. Like a car accelerating (burning tire smoke, engine misfire) or decelerating (hot brakes) during panning or for moving shots, like nature stuff... birds extending full wingspan. 0.1fps doesnt cut it then =)

just a misunderstanding... Guess we all know what makes a good panning technique, regardless 5fps, 3fps, 20fps or 0.1fps... maybe we can discuss on another thread to minimize further OT

umm espn,
since your comments on my pro's are mostly not pro's, I interpreted these features of the d200 were 'passable' to U... that's what I meant... mind sharing the reasons U bought yr d200? Other than 70% d2x functionality?

also, price isnt a concern here, if I was concerned with value (features vs price), then I'd say the fuji f11 was an equally good purchase as a d200 or d2x...

[espn]

Originally Posted by Rev humm... wildstallion is right tho, the 5fps is more useful for shots that have interesting details that could be lost during the 2fps difference to 3fps. Like a car accelerating (burning tire smoke, engine misfire) or decelerating (hot brakes) during panning or for moving shots, like nature stuff... birds extending full wingspan. 0.1fps doesnt cut it then =) just a misunderstanding... Guess we all know what makes a good panning technique, regardless 5fps, 3fps, 20fps or 0.1fps... maybe we can discuss on another thread to minimize further OT

Yeah you got my point... if you're talking about certain actions, the FPS does cut it.

Originally Posted by Rev umm espn, since your comments on my pro's are mostly not pro's, I interpreted these features of the d200 were 'passable' to U... that's what I meant... mind sharing the reasons U bought yr d200? Other than 70% d2x functionality?

Eh... I don't own a D200. But maybe I'll just go more indepth on the pros that I feel are not pros.


1. ISO100, more megapixels, I tend to crop my pics (it's a disease, I know)
>> ISO100 or ISO200 as base, frankly, not much of a difference. Do not forget with larger resolutions you require larger cards. A 2GB card on the D2X shows me 99 shots (uncompressed NEF) remaining (approx 40% more if using compressed NEF). You'll signifcantly need to upgrade your storages, more cards, larger portable storage. Another downside is the need to have a faster PC to do the processing for the hi-res images produced by the camera.

Also more MP is what you're hoping for to crop more, that would kinda defeat the purpose in having more MP (which I prefer to use it to print large large prints) as you're not going to concentrate on your framing, but to just shoot, go home and work on the areas you want. To me cropping is not all bad, but if excessive cropping is necessary, one must look back on his skill & framing.

2. Relatively less noise up to ISO800 compared to D70
>> An image is as noisy as it's underexposed, if you expose any image correctly, the noise is not that significant to be a consideration factor, even if worry, there are many good NR software out there that can remove your worry.

5. Weather seal, good durability for all seasons
>> The SLR still has a mounting hole, CF door. Weather seal is only as strong as it's unsealed parts. Weather seal doesn't mean weather-proof. Normal DSLRs like my ex-D100, ex-D70 is more than capable to walk about in light rain and go for rough areas/grounds. Unless you're talking about necessity of abusing the body, otherwise the ruggedness to me, is not a +point.

[surge]

D70 smaller, easier to bring out
D70 can do almost everything that D200 can n(esp since you shoot more of static subjs)
D70 X2 is still cheaper that D200( or very close), so that you can really abuse one and keep the other as spare just in case.
D70 viewfinder might not be big biut it is good enough.
D70 AF good enough for most situation


i got myself a D200. i am no pro. i just love the D200 w grip. holds better, FEELS better. as far as image....D70 produces just as good as D200. been waiting for a nikon w grip that i can afford (not that i shoot loads of portraits....just a like issue)

go try one, but warning...dont bring your atm or credit card w you

[gohaj]

I thought colour of the pic from D200 are better than D70?

[Cheesecake]

*** said it is better than D2X becos D2X is obsolete!!!!


MS Colors, D200 @ S$2680/. with GST. best buy now!!!! GRAB yours today!!!

[westwest1]

Originally Posted by surge D70 smaller, easier to bring out

Feels like the same and also looks the same....

[markccm]

Originally Posted by Cheesecake *** said it is better than D2X becos D2X is obsolete!!!!

the admin censored off KRW?

[Rev]

hmm, not many people go from d70 to d200? Was hoping to hear more reasons why people go for the d200 as well - not to help me decide but purely curious to hear what 'improvements' attracted you... for me it's the pros & cons above...

for noise at 10mp, I think I lose less on the softness of the pic compared to a d70 if I apply noise reduction, am I wrong here?

Gohaj, color-wise, it's the same to me, have to tweak it a little anyway, but I prefer nikon color over the other brands for some unexplainable reason.

Surge, also heard grip is better from another friend too, thanks. Feel a bigger viewfinder would reduce difficulty in checking the little details compared to the smallish d70's...

Espn, thanks for being detailed on my pro&cons but what else would be a pro to you if the d200 features I listed here are comparable to a d70? Mind sharing why U feel the multi-cam-1000 is 'passable'?

Originally Posted by espn >> The SLR still has a mounting hole, CF door. Weather seal is only as strong as it's unsealed parts. Weather seal doesn't mean weather-proof. Normal DSLRs like my ex-D100, ex-D70 is more than capable to walk about in light rain and go for rough areas/grounds. Unless you're talking about necessity of abusing the body, otherwise the ruggedness to me, is not a +point.

this is interesting, so the weather seal is totally useless to you?

[lsisaxon]

I use both. What I feel..
Pro D70s
D70s feels balanced without a vertical grip. D200, you'll need a vertical grip.
D70s battery last like about 1000 shots, D200, you can probably manage about 300.
D70s 6mp JPG has a smaller file size but you can easily blow up to 15" x 10" (at 200dpi). D200 10mp has a much bigger file size (~1.5x larger), can blow to ~19" x ~12.5" (at 200dpi).
D70s lighter easier to carry around.
D70s cheaper. The additional money can buy another very decent lens.
D70s can use the IR remote release.
Ask yourself these.. Do you need 5fps? Do you need 10mp?

Pro D200
10mp resolution. How large you want your prints to be? vs image data storage. You can store 1.5 times more images if you shoot at 6mp.
ISO100.Good if you have a very bright situation. Good noise performance but not significantly better than ISO200.
Mirror lock up for vibration reduction.. do you need it?

I shoot on D70s most of the time, only for critical work like lens testing etc will I use D200 or D2x because of the additional resolution.

[espn]

Originally Posted by Rev hmm, not many people go from d70 to d200? Was hoping to hear more reasons why people go for the d200 as well - not to help me decide but purely curious to hear what 'improvements' attracted you... for me it's the pros & cons above...

A lot I knew went upgrading to D200, mainly not because of the resolution (I've already demonstrated that I can do extremely large prints from a lousy 4MP D2H) but because of it's entirely new system and functionality that's 70% near what a D2X is capable of, but at a very small fraction of the cost. If you look at D100 when it first launched - S$3888, and compare it with the D200 now, the D200 is more than value for money, it's a steal.

Originally Posted by Rev for noise at 10mp, I think I lose less on the softness of the pic compared to a d70 if I apply noise reduction, am I wrong here?

As again, the image is as noisy as your mis-exposure, if you exposed it correctly, noise will be at minimal, as for softness during NR, you can find a detailed comparison on DPReview on the camera's in-house Hi-ISO NR.

Originally Posted by Rev Gohaj, color-wise, it's the same to me, have to tweak it a little anyway, but I prefer nikon color over the other brands for some unexplainable reason.

Add in a bit more 3D feel to the colour as well, images feel more 3D.

Originally Posted by Rev Surge, also heard grip is better from another friend too, thanks. Feel a bigger viewfinder would reduce difficulty in checking the little details compared to the smallish d70's...

Grip is definitely better than the D70/D50/D100, the D200's ergonomics has brought a whole new meaning to ergonomics

Originally Posted by Rev Espn, thanks for being detailed on my pro&cons but what else would be a pro to you if the d200 features I listed here are comparable to a d70? Mind sharing why U feel the multi-cam-1000 is 'passable'?

Pros to me would be

• Good handling feel
• Ergonomics (button layout, menu options)
• Presence of a FUNC button (impt!)
• Built in flash to control CLS
• Better colour DR over D100/D70S/D50
• Custom menu shooting banks (A,B,C,D)
• Ability to use all the AI and AF-n, AF-I, AF-S glasses

Cam1000AF is a passable pro when compared to the D70S/D50, I don't see much speed difference between the two, but it does have a new AF system that's different from the D2 and D100/70S/50 bodies.

Originally Posted by Rev this is interesting, so the weather seal is totally useless to you?

It's not totally useless, but it's not a major cause for gauging also. Weather seal doesn't mean you can shoot out in the pouring rain, it just means more ruggedness for extreme weathers like desert, snow, mountain climbing etc. For light rain, drizzles, personal experience tells me a D100 is more than capable. I've shot in a heavy pour with a D2X, still surviving too. Ok, maybe a slight advantage, but how many would want/need to shoot in a heavy pour

[nightwolf75]

my 2 rupees...

d70 vs d200 - 2 different class of cams. d70/70s' target audience was, and still is, the budding amatuer (tho i know a few working photogs who use this as their primary cam - and strangely enuf, even photojournalists). d200, IMO, is targetted at the working photog crowd. from the more reputable websites overseas, the main selling point of d200 was 3/4 the performance of D2x at almost half the price (tho some more discerning buyers feel dat the 1/4 is worth paying more for).

i've handled the d200 b4 (when it was launched, courtesy of nikon sg). compared to the d70, its definitely got a more assured/pro-feel handling. as to the megapixel peeping, a few of us had the pleasure of 'eye-lash' counting last christmas with the d200, d70, d2x and d2hs... if u are not the type who blows up ur prints to 8R/S8R and beyond, to an untrained/undiscerning eye, the prints bet d70 and d200 have no discernable difference at first glance (all things being equalled). i'm not talking abt DR and noise and all dat jazz...

of course, once u start blowing things up and crop like siao... then u'll know why d200 will, IMO, beat the pants off d70 - likewise d2x will beat the pants off the rest etc... etc... all things being equalled. to paraphase 'BJ' clinton - its the details, stupid.

espn's point abt enlarging d2h/2hs, or for dat matter, even the d1h pics to wall size is abt interpolation. can be done, but IMO, its not something most will or have the capability to try. such prints, IMO, cannot stand up to close scrutiny. its in the details.

AF-wise, the d200 is adequate, tho compared to the blazing d2h/hs it will be left biting the dust. IMO, the way the d200's AF points are arranged and group might proved to be a real pain to quick-action event photography. with practice tho, i think most will get the hang of it. however, if it does come to a crunch, i would prefer the d2h/hs over any of the current nikon DSLR lineup when it comes to event photography, any time any place.

[Rev]

cool... Thanks for sharing guys, hope to hear more from d200 users.

espn
it's wierd that some sites say the cam-1000 is faster, some say the same as a d70, all agree not as fast as the d2x and yet the 'wide-AF' is a feature that the d2x doesnt have..

the other features that I find would be useful is that more settings are on the camera body like the continuous focus, single focus selection, iso on LCD, so reaction time to change settings on the fly is there for unpredictable situations.

haha, maybe I'm paranoid after so much 'light-drizzle' abuse on the d70, thats why the weather seal 'feels' important to me. heh, that aside, if there was an underwater housing for a d70 with a 18-200, I'd go out into the downpour with U....

nightwolf,
Not sure if this applies to nikon, but maybe the af sensors are grouped that way at those positions for optimal sharpness focusing? A friend with a 350D complains the AF focusing at the sides yields slightly softer pics...



IMO, I think the d200 is a not a great leap over the d70, however the little tweaks (3D-matrix-meter II, 5fps, func button, more custom WB, larger viewfinder etc etc etc) here & there might just add up to help taking great pics instead of good pics... my 2cts.

yea yea, I know it's the photographer skills to make the best out of his equipment, but equipment just keeps getting better & better =) dont think I could the panning shots I do now with the canon g5 that I had before