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  1. #41

    Default Re: Feedback required

    And interestingly, this last post of yours is the only reply in this entire thread that did not quote the post which you are replying to. Wonder why?[/QUOTE]

    No reason at all, I just clicked reply not quote.

  2. #42

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    But I also know that, AT THE SAME TIME, you also had started a thread to promote "shoots". And that is primarily to help CS members? You are kind indeed.


    Thank you.

  3. #43

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    Aside from the whining, the cynicism and the conspiracy theories, let me just offer some points for your consideration:

    a. Amateurs pay to shoot, pros get paid to shoot. So your idea is likely to result in a bunch of amateurs shooting your girls. Is that what you want?

    b. If you choose a winner for the coverage of the final, do you want to rely on an amateur for the coverage of such an important event? Esp. if you're not paying for the coverage, there's no recourse if anything goes wrong, since there is no contract for you to rely on to claim damages.

    c. In fact, why should any amateur, even if he is selected thru a competition, shoot for you for free?

    As an aside, I've yet to see a beauty contest which is not commercialised or dumbed down. I hope yours can be different, but the mechanics of the audience, sponsors and market work against this.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Feedback required

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong
    Aside from the whining, the cynicism and the conspiracy theories, let me just offer some points for your consideration:

    a. Amateurs pay to shoot, pros get paid to shoot. So your idea is likely to result in a bunch of amateurs shooting your girls. Is that what you want?

    b. If you choose a winner for the coverage of the final, do you want to rely on an amateur for the coverage of such an important event? Esp. if you're not paying for the coverage, there's no recourse if anything goes wrong, since there is no contract for you to rely on to claim damages.

    c. In fact, why should any amateur, even if he is selected thru a competition, shoot for you for free?

    As an aside, I've yet to see a beauty contest which is not commercialised or dumbed down. I hope yours can be different, but the mechanics of the audience, sponsors and market work against this.

    I agree totally!
    Maybe the threadstarter can post up his office, websites and etc to back up the fact that this is not a bogus thingy.
    I started to smell fish here...

  5. #45

    Default Re: Feedback required

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong

    a. Amateurs pay to shoot, pros get paid to shoot. So your idea is likely to result in a bunch of amateurs shooting your girls. Is that what you want?

    b. If you choose a winner for the coverage of the final, do you want to rely on an amateur for the coverage of such an important event? Esp. if you're not paying for the coverage, there's no recourse if anything goes wrong, since there is no contract for you to rely on to claim damages.

    c. In fact, why should any amateur, even if he is selected thru a competition, shoot for you for free?

    As an aside, I've yet to see a beauty contest which is not commercialised or dumbed down. I hope yours can be different, but the mechanics of the audience, sponsors and market work against this.
    thanks for your post.

    Re a & b. We are not relying on any of clubSnap member's photos, we will have other media coverage there. I thought the opportunity was a good idea, and that the competition to attend the final was a nice touch. I can see why some of the responses have been negative. If the feeling is the competition to win attendance at the final is not good, then we don't have to do it.

    c. For the opportunity i thought it is different.

    Re your final para, this is the main reason why we want to do this, it won't be commercialised, (TV contract for MSU etc.) We have an outline of what we want to do and it will be different.

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX Boy
    I agree totally!
    Maybe the threadstarter can post up his office, websites and etc to back up the fact that this is not a bogus thingy.
    I started to smell fish here...

    There will be no website/promotion until after the 2006 event.

    I still don't understand why there is so much distrust in this forum?

  7. #47

    Default Re: Feedback required

    Quote Originally Posted by XXX Boy
    I agree totally!
    Maybe the threadstarter can post up his office, websites and etc to back up the fact that this is not a bogus thingy.
    I started to smell fish here...

    There will be no website/promotion until after the 2006 event. However will be glad to share our feedback on the 2006 event once we have competed next month and returned to Singapore.

    What I don't understand is why there is so much distrust in this forum?

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Feedback required

    Quote Originally Posted by artdirector
    So at the moment I'm just looking for feedback. I've seen the standard rate for 'model' photo shoots at anything from S$80 to S$200. But we are talking about beauty queens. I'm looking at the higher end, otherwise there is little point - we need funds for the event, flights to Europe, National costumes etc. This is just one option of a number we are considering, so please let me have your thoughts. Thanks.
    Here's my feedback.

    Most of us are amateurs although some may have more money to throw than the others. Personally I consider $80 for a group model shoot to be reasonable. I don't think we'll be one of your bigger sources of revenue as there is no compelling reason for us to want to shoot top end beauty queens.

    Best of luck to your project which I'm sure will add colours and excitement to the local scene.

  9. #49
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Feedback required

    I'm just wondering, since there's allusion to a 2006 event - it would be useful if you could post your website/promotion for the 2006 event, as well as the identity of the company you are purporting to represent. I don't think that the crux of what "student" is asking for is onerous.

    One point I can see is that you are intending to organise shoots with the added incentive of a promise to shoot at the event itself. People will need to know that the "promise" is indeed bona fide and can be backed up with valid substance.

    The apparent distrust that you are experiencing is also because of past experiences with shady fly by night operators who disappear after promising the sky, sun and moon -

    You may wish to see student's requests for clarification as an opportunity to verify your credibility - if you are able to, you would have captured more people's attention. After all, there are also people who will dismiss any seemingly suspicious proposal outright without seeking clarification.

    As of now, all the community knows about you is that you are a new registered member who signed up within the last 5 days.
    Last edited by vince123123; 15th May 2006 at 10:10 AM.

  10. #50

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    If so, then it's possible the selected amateur may piss off your media coverage, esp. if they get in the way of the pros during the event.

    The reason MSU and other similar contests are not very upper-class is not because of the Mediacorp contract. It's because of the nature of the event itself ("whirl piece"), the audience (obviously mass audience), the contestants (I've heard of girls who join every contest in town because they're desperate to win something) and the sponsors.

    Although I must say that I don't think that MSU is that low-class. The winners are typically very eloquent (esp. those South America types who rattle off in Spanish or Portugese after winning) and they really have to perform during Q&A, to give an intelligent answer under very trying circumstances.

    Wai Leong
    ===
    Quote Originally Posted by artdirector
    thanks for your post.

    Re a & b. We are not relying on any of clubSnap member's photos, we will have other media coverage there. I thought the opportunity was a good idea, and that the competition to attend the final was a nice touch. I can see why some of the responses have been negative. If the feeling is the competition to win attendance at the final is not good, then we don't have to do it.

    c. For the opportunity i thought it is different.

    Re your final para, this is the main reason why we want to do this, it won't be commercialised, (TV contract for MSU etc.) We have an outline of what we want to do and it will be different.

  11. #51

    Default Re: Feedback required

    Quote Originally Posted by artdirector
    There will be no website/promotion until after the 2006 event.

    I still don't understand why there is so much distrust in this forum?

    I had wanted to let this rest. But since you mentioned the issue of "distrust".

    How would a logical person deduce when

    1 You ignored my questions

    2 And when you finally replied after I alluded to the possibility of a "bogus operator", you gave such a lame and stupid reply.

    To others who are reading this, please read my post in #34, and ask whether his explanation for not replying earlier holds any water. Also please note that most of the posts he replied to actually never asked any questions!

    Mine was a bona fide question, as explained by vince123123.

  12. #52
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    Default Re: Feedback required

    student, i need not refer to your earlier post, because i believe we have a common understanding.

  13. #53

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    Gentlemen (artdirector excluded),

    Sorry, I am late to this party. I was off line for a while. Now, back to business.

    Let's call it as it is. What artdirector is doing is a simple thing,and had been done a zillion times in CS. Before I rage on, I actually have a question for all to consider. Is this beauty peagant ligit? Is there real affiliation to an European peagant, and if so, still does not nessaryily makes it ligit.

    The way I see this, THIS IS ANOTHER SCAM, a scam to take advantage of some "bright eyes busy tails" photographers who dream of becoming the "official" photographer of the final. BIG FAT *****ing deal man.

    And according to artdirect, they already have media coverage and is not depending on CS top provide the photography coverage, than, what's the point? The point is, artdirector can pocket the fees.

    Now I see the point!
    deadpoet
    my portfolio

  14. #54
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    Default Re: Feedback required

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet
    Gentlemen (artdirector excluded),

    Sorry, I am late to this party. I was off line for a while. Now, back to business.

    Let's call it as it is. What artdirector is doing is a simple thing,and had been done a zillion times in CS. Before I rage on, I actually have a question for all to consider. Is this beauty peagant ligit? Is there real affiliation to an European peagant, and if so, still does not nessaryily makes it ligit.

    The way I see this, THIS IS ANOTHER SCAM, a scam to take advantage of some "bright eyes busy tails" photographers who dream of becoming the "official" photographer of the final. BIG FAT *****ing deal man.

    And according to artdirect, they already have media coverage and is not depending on CS top provide the photography coverage, than, what's the point? The point is, artdirector can pocket the fees.

    Now I see the point!
    After reading what has been said, im afraid im going to have to agree with DP too, student has asked some very reasonable questions but has recieved no reasonable answer, this just looks like some cheap money making scheme that entices the "bright eyed and bushy tailed" photographers, hope you can prove us wrong artdirector!
    Last edited by wildstallion; 15th May 2006 at 07:36 PM.

  15. #55
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    Default Re: Feedback required

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet
    And according to artdirect, they already have media coverage and is not depending on CS top provide the photography coverage, than, what's the point? The point is, artdirector can pocket the fees.

    Now I see the point!
    I think I see the point too!!!

  16. #56
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    Default Re: Feedback required

    In the internet or rather forum, everyone is guilty until provent innocent. Mistrust, and beware of cheats, crooks and all manners of scam......

    And there is this notion of reputation of members here - by the type of post, the number of post and the duration of membership and etc. After a while, our sense of smell gets better, be it fish, meat, bones, dead cat, rats or chilli padi or even salted fish.......
    Last edited by smallaperture; 15th May 2006 at 09:44 PM.
    I love big car, big house, big lenses, but small apertures.

  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by waileong

    Although I must say that I don't think that MSU is that low-class. The winners are typically very eloquent (esp. those South America types who rattle off in Spanish or Portugese after winning) and they really have to perform during Q&A, to give an intelligent answer under very trying circumstances.

    Wai Leong
    ===
    Miss Unverse is ok, MSU (Miss Singapore Universe was what I was referring to).

  18. #58

    Default Re: Feedback required

    Quote Originally Posted by XXX Boy
    I think I see the point too!!!

    Yes, it is a fundraising event, and knowing that then peopl have the choice to participate or not.

    as for pocketing the funds, no - we need to fund events

  19. #59

    Default Re: Feedback required

    Quote Originally Posted by smallaperture
    In the internet or rather forum, everyone is guilty until provent innocent. Mistrust, and beware of cheats, crooks and all manners of scam......

    And there is this notion of reputation of members here - by the type of post, the number of post and the duration of membership and etc. After a while, our sense of smell gets better, be it fish, meat, bones or chilli padi or even salted fish.......
    Everyone has to start somewhere...

  20. #60

    Default Re: Feedback required

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet
    Gentlemen (artdirector excluded),

    Sorry, I am late to this party. I was off line for a while. Now, back to business.

    Let's call it as it is. What artdirector is doing is a simple thing,and had been done a zillion times in CS. Before I rage on, I actually have a question for all to consider. Is this beauty peagant ligit? Is there real affiliation to an European peagant, and if so, still does not nessaryily makes it ligit.

    The way I see this, THIS IS ANOTHER SCAM, a scam to take advantage of some "bright eyes busy tails" photographers who dream of becoming the "official" photographer of the final. BIG FAT *****ing deal man.

    And according to artdirect, they already have media coverage and is not depending on CS top provide the photography coverage, than, what's the point? The point is, artdirector can pocket the fees.

    Now I see the point!

    Yes it is, links will be posted when the time is right. Remember this is a 2007 event not 2006. I am only asking for feedback. Some has been positive and supportive, some, perhaps quite rightly, not so. So be it.

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