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Thread: Foreign Talent Articles...

  1. #21

    Default Re: Foreign Talent Articles...

    Quote Originally Posted by sORe-EyEz
    they may b cheaper, they may hav more impressive qualifications but how r we 2 kno how capable they r?

    not everything is so easily quantifiable de.
    One thing which is definitely quantifiable, it’s salary…
    Hey, it’s a cost reduction world.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Foreign Talent Articles...

    Well, I’m not against foreign talents. But I’m really pissed at how the administration works.
    The influx of foreigners getting EP and PRs are simply too many and a number of them are not that “highly qualified” or “prized” anyway.
    The only thing they have is cost advantage, which means company can pay lesser for the same amount of work delivered.
    And with the govt raising the bar on our cost of living, can we afford to expect the same as these FTs?
    In addition, there’s no minimal wage rule or any form of guidelines. So most employers (like my former boss who’s an American Citizen – Indian National) will go “we’ll employ wherever or whoever is cheaper”. It’s a cost reduction world. Ever employer wants to squeeze the most they can. If there’s no rule or law, why not make the best out of it.

    Take a look at this website:
    http://www.contactsingapore.org.sg/o...salaries.shtml
    How many of us have actually reached or even neared the salary posted. Many employers don’t even pay out close to that much. They’ll say “the salaries are market driven” and the market is driven by FT. Why pay more for a Singaporean when you can get lesser for a FT?

    What’s worst is that most foreign talents are not the least keen to take up Singapore citizenship. They are keen for PRship (Which is valid for a good 10yrs) which enables them to enjoy better tax rates, child education benefits, rebates… etc. But citizenship wise, I guess it’s just not as attractive. Think about it. What are the really attractive benefits of holding a citizenship?
    All they want to do is to earn their money, withdraw their CPF (for PR holders), go back to their home countries for retirement and enjoy good life.
    If we bite the bullet and lower our salary demands, do you think you will be able to retire in peace, let alone enjoy “good life”? Where or who can you turn to?
    How much do you think you can take out of your CPF after you reached retirement age? And what are the costs of treating old age illnesses when you retire?

    Of recent, I joined a US based Singapore company whereby my department (R&D) consist of 6 ppl.
    I am the only Singaporean joined by 3 China Nationals and 2 Indian Nationals.
    Now thankfully I am based in San Jose, CA whereby I have decided to become a FT in USA myself.

    One of my current Indian National colleague mentioned about getting his 6 year old kid denounced of his PR by a certain age so that he doesn’t have to serve NS. And if he should serve NS, it should be in India and not Singapore. I felt bitter about this coz I “wasted” 2 ½ years of my youth for pledging my loyalty to the Nation. And some employers prefer foreigners for they don’t have to do reservice which is very disrupting to work at times.

    Yes, I may be the FT in USA which I’m complaining about in Singapore. But what can the locals here do about it?
    It’s just the administration fault. Eventually, some will get decent living, yet some (young and old) will be sleeping in parks and on the streets, begging, mugging. In Singapore, you may not see such a scene coz its arrests for those who sleep on the streets. Ever thought what will happen to us if we were to progress towards that scenario? What can you do?

    Sorry for the long article, just expressing my feelings on administration, employing companies and my fear of being a Singaporean.
    Last edited by Hoky; 12th May 2006 at 01:13 AM.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Foreign Talent Articles...

    Is there really a problem about foreign talents?

    Aren't they still helping the country earning money?

    Singaporeans really have nothing better to do then complaining about this and about that.

    What else can they do?

    Why not just concentrate on what you are doing best and be proud of it.


    Singaporean looking for a job....
    Don't forget there are STILL plenty of jobs out there and no one is grabbing it. One very good reason......PAY is low. Second reason......why so far away from my home. Third reason.....have to work in Saturday and OT har? Fourth reason.........how many months bonus.....? If only one month then I will not work. Fifth reason...........no company car? (Looking very grumpy and sad.......)

    Foreign Talent looking for a job....
    All above no problem......anything else you would like me to do? (And smiles all the way...)

  4. #24
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foreign Talent Articles...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pro Image
    Foreign Talent looking for a job....
    All above no problem......anything else you would like me to do? (And smiles all the way...)
    You're hired! When can you start?

  5. #25

    Default Re: Foreign Talent Articles...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pro Image
    Is there really a problem about foreign talents?

    Singaporean looking for a job....
    Don't forget there are STILL plenty of jobs out there and no one is grabbing it. One very good reason......PAY is low. Second reason......why so far away from my home. Third reason.....have to work in Saturday and OT har? Fourth reason.........how many months bonus.....? If only one month then I will not work. Fifth reason...........no company car? (Looking very grumpy and sad.......)

    Foreign Talent looking for a job....
    All above no problem......anything else you would like me to do? (And smiles all the way...)
    hmm..are these your actual experiences or you read them in the 140th?

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Foreign Talent Articles...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pro Image
    Singaporean looking for a job....
    Don't forget there are STILL plenty of jobs out there and no one is grabbing it. One very good reason......PAY is low. Second reason......why so far away from my home. Third reason.....have to work in Saturday and OT har? Fourth reason.........how many months bonus.....? If only one month then I will not work. Fifth reason...........no company car? (Looking very grumpy and sad.......)
    You've forgotten to mention about:

    1. Got company sponsored overseas photo trips or not?
    2. What about company subsidied DSLR and L lenses purchses?
    3. Free CFcards and batteries?
    4. Free models shots?


  7. #27
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    Default Re: Foreign Talent Articles...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenscapes
    hmm..are these your actual experiences or you read them in the 140th?
    Do I sound I am joking to you?

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Foreign Talent Articles...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pro Image
    Is there really a problem about foreign talents?

    Aren't they still helping the country earning money?

    Singaporeans really have nothing better to do then complaining about this and about that.

    What else can they do?

    Why not just concentrate on what you are doing best and be proud of it.


    Singaporean looking for a job....
    Don't forget there are STILL plenty of jobs out there and no one is grabbing it. One very good reason......PAY is low. Second reason......why so far away from my home. Third reason.....have to work in Saturday and OT har? Fourth reason.........how many months bonus.....? If only one month then I will not work. Fifth reason...........no company car? (Looking very grumpy and sad.......)

    Foreign Talent looking for a job....
    All above no problem......anything else you would like me to do? (And smiles all the way...)
    I am not surprised with the reasons listed. According to my wife working in Defu area, they always face problems whenever there is job vacancy in the company. Some of the things Singaporeans usually ask when they were called to go down for interview are:

    a. Got food court there or not?
    b. Got company transport or not?
    c. Defu is so ulu place.
    d. I stay too far away (when told that company is in Defu)
    e. How many months bonus?, etc.

    The last thing they want to ask is what the job entails and the working conditions. In the end, without any luck in getting a local, the company have to exhaust its quota of foreigners to fill up the vacancies. Some time u gotta look at the flip side of the coin. Many companies have problems hiring locals as they are getting more and more choosy.
    Last edited by redstorm; 12th May 2006 at 10:31 PM.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Foreign Talent Articles...

    Quote Originally Posted by redstorm
    I am not surprised with the reasons listed. According to my wife working in Defu area, they always face problems whenever there is job vacancy in the company. Some of the things Singaporeans usually ask when they were called to go down for interview are:

    a. Got food court there or not?
    b. Got company transport or not?
    c. Defu is so ulu place.
    d. I stay too far away (when told that company is in Defu)
    e. How many months bonus?, etc.

    The last thing they want to ask is what the job entails and the working conditions. In the end, without any luck in getting a local, the company have so far exhausted its quota of employing foreigner. Some time u gotta look at the flip side of the coin. Many companies have problems hiring locals as they are getting more and more choosy.
    Thank you for sharing this experience. Somehow some Singaporeans find it hard to believe until another person has to prove it. What a joke when Lenscapes says I read from the 140th......I don't even have time to SH*T, let alone read the 140th.

    What is the main word here.......CHOOSY. Not just choosy. It's VERY CHOOSY.

    Where do Singaporeans really want to work?
    Either very near their house or near MRT or Shenton Way.

    How many months bonus they expect?
    MINIMUM 3 months (excluding the 13th month)
    Last edited by Pro Image; 12th May 2006 at 10:21 PM.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Foreign Talent Articles...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pro Image
    Thank you for sharing this experience. Somehow some Singaporeans find it hard to believe until another person has to prove it. What a joke when Lenscapes says I read from the 140th......I don't even have time to SH*T, let alone read the 140th.

    What is the main word here.......CHOOSY. Not just choosy. It's VERY CHOOSY.

    Where do Singaporeans really want to work?
    Either very near their house or near MRT or Shenton Way.

    How many months bonus they expect?
    3 months (excluding the 13th month)
    Yeah, VERY CHOOSY is the key word. Well, when the economy is doing well, it's a employees' market and they can afford to pick and choose. The other category of foreign workers, which form the bulk of all the foreigners working here, are those in the cleaning and construction industry. Ask anyone in the construction industry, they will tell u that it's more expensive to employ foreigners because of the levy, providing accomodation, etc. than getting a local. Many Singaporeans would rather work in a sanitised, clean and air-con environment than in the construction or cleaning sector where the work is dirty, exposed to all the elements, dangers, etc.

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Foreign Talent Articles...

    Quote Originally Posted by redstorm
    Yeah, VERY CHOOSY is the key word. Well, when the economy is doing well, it's a employees' market and they can afford to pick and choose. The other category of foreign workers, which form the bulk of all the foreigners working here, are those in the cleaning and construction industry. Ask anyone in the construction industry, they will tell u that it's more expensive to employ foreigners because of the levy, providing accomodation, etc. than getting a local. Many Singaporeans would rather work in a sanitised, clean and air-con environment than in the construction or cleaning sector where the work is dirty, exposed to all the elements, dangers, etc.
    And it goes on and on and on and on............and luckly the goverment only allowed Singaporeans to drive as Taxi Drivers. If not, I think there would be a influx of taxi drivers from Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, China, Vietnam and so on.

    Australia is one country which has more foreigner driving taxis than Aussie themselves. Is that bad? Nope.....from what I heard from a couple of my Aussie mates. Infact they work so much harder than the Aussies. So, it's not just Singapore who is facing an influx of foreign talents but other countries as well.

    Malaysia has more Bangladeshs and Indonesian constructions workers than the locals. So is anyone complaining about it? Yes but what can the goverment do? Nothing as the local Malaysian is also choosy. It's the same anywhere.......so stop complaining.
    Last edited by Pro Image; 12th May 2006 at 10:53 PM.

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Foreign Talent Articles...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pro Image
    How many months bonus they expect?
    MINIMUM 3 months (excluding the 13th month)
    Listen you lucky Singaporeans and Foreign Talents, these days we are lucky to get a $100 bonus at Christmas in Australia let alone 1 month bonus.

    For my last job I had to catch 2 MTR, a bus and a walk to get to work.

    Anyone wants to swap?
    Last edited by Sion; 12th May 2006 at 10:57 PM.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Foreign Talent Articles...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion
    Listen you lucky Singaporeans and Foreign Talents, these days we are lucky to get a $100 bonus at Christmas in Australia let alone 1 month bonus.

    For my last job I had to catch 2 MTR, a bus and a walk to get to work.

    Anyone wants to swap?
    I think you are much much better off then them. Seriously........bro!

  14. #34

    Default Re: Foreign Talent Articles...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pro Image
    Thank you for sharing this experience. Somehow some Singaporeans find it hard to believe until another person has to prove it. What a joke when Lenscapes says I read from the 140th......I don't even have time to SH*T, let alone read the 140th.

    What is the main word here.......CHOOSY. Not just choosy. It's VERY CHOOSY.

    Where do Singaporeans really want to work?
    Either very near their house or near MRT or Shenton Way.

    How many months bonus they expect?
    MINIMUM 3 months (excluding the 13th month)
    Well, as a Singaporean, I need to defend myself as well as some of the folks who are in the same shoe as me.

    Where do Singaporean really want to work?
    Of course everyone wants to work near their home. Even Americans where I am located currently want to work near their home. Why? Two primary reasons, you save on transport time and cost.
    By adding cost to your transport, you are getting less. One of the reason FT can get lower salary is that they can easily relocate by means of home rental. For Singaporean, you are typically bound in your HDB for at least 5 yrs and you still have to pay fricking conservation charges, electrical, tel phone, property tax, TV license... etc.

    How many months bonus they expect?
    Three months. How many industries offer three months. Over my years of working with big boys like Philips, Singapore Technologies and PerkinElmer, I have never gotten more than 2 months for variable bonuses. (There was even no variable bonus... @!$%^) Annual increment either freezes or doesn't exceed 2 percent.
    Is your idea of the job market so well? Or perhaps the job market you are working in is at it's peak? Care to share which industry you are from or who your employer is?
    Last edited by Hoky; 12th May 2006 at 11:35 PM.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Foreign Talent Articles...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pro Image
    And it goes on and on and on and on............and luckly the goverment only allowed Singaporeans to drive as Taxi Drivers. If not, I think there would be a influx of taxi drivers from Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, China, Vietnam and so on.

    Australia is one country which has more foreigner driving taxis than Aussie themselves. Is that bad? Nope.....from what I heard from a couple of my Aussie mates. Infact they work so much harder than the Aussies. So, it's not just Singapore who is facing an influx of foreign talents but other countries as well.

    Malaysia has more Bangladeshs and Indonesian constructions workers than the locals. So is anyone complaining about it? Yes but what can the goverment do? Nothing as the local Malaysian is also choosy. It's the same anywhere.......so stop complaining.
    I don't get it, so what if Singaporeans are allowed as Taxi drivers? Do you know how many taxis companies and taxis we got for such a small country? And how many of us are taking taxis everyday. My dad was a taxi driver before and you know you have to pay about 100 bucks for renting the cab everyday. You don't own the cab, the cab companies do. If you and your fellow taxi driver do not cover enough for the rental and fuel, you end up losing time and money on the road. On the other hand, the bus driver which most Singaporeans commute consists of mostly FT. This would be a decent job with CPF, health benefits and stable wages. Why do you think elderly folks (above mid 30s) want to be taxi driver? It's not their lifelong dream (Companies are not willing to insure, give health benefits to these people.), you know?

    Speaking about Aussie, yes they are indeed choosy.
    Being also an Australia PR, I see that they have huge percentage of Vietnamese who are cabby drivers (esp in Melbourne) and I plan to be one if I can't find a job there.
    Aussie case is different, they give jobs by priorities, Citizen first, PR second, and lastly FT. And they really care about the employees as they have very strict union system. (Why do you think Qantas doesn't want SQ to fly the US-Aust route?) And don't forget about their Medicare which is superb compared to our Medisave and the redundancy package scheme.
    All these packages are to help you cope with old age and unemployment. And lastly, they have good salary guidelines for many industries which are strictly followed. (Most Singapore companies take advantage of the fact to use FT to lower Singaporean wages.)
    The only drawback is that you pay higher taxes, but c'mon, treat the taxes are relief for taking care in your old age.
    Last edited by Hoky; 12th May 2006 at 11:40 PM.

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Foreign Talent Articles...

    Let me say something on this issue. Basically, the objective of getting FTs is to fill up those promising sectors where Singaporean may require more time to nuture. We have so many live cases - Stem-cell R&D, Gaming and IR.

    Globalisation is a 2-way sword. The Government cannot simply wait for the local pool to grow, nuture and excel. That will take at least 10 to 20 years. If we reject to accept FTs, by that time, Singapore may landed as a 3rd world country.

    By the way, the Government and the people of Singapore did not make a little RED-DOT overnight. It took us some 40 years.

    In short, we should see things from a broader perspective. Maybe you all are still young. Perhaps time is the best witness.

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Foreign Talent Articles...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoky
    Well, as a Singaporean, I need to defend myself as well as some of the folks who are in the same shoe as me.

    Where do Singaporean really want to work?
    Of course everyone wants to work near their home. Even Americans where I am located currently want to work near their home. Why? Two primary reasons, you save on transport time and cost.
    By adding cost to your transport, you are getting less. One of the reason FT can get lower salary is that they can easily relocate by means of home rental. For Singaporean, you are typically bound in your HDB for at least 5 yrs and you still have to pay fricking conservation charges, electrical, tel phone, property tax, TV license... etc.
    You are right on this. There is also other reason.
    Would anyone want to take 1.5 hrs or more to work? Take Tuas, If you need to take a bus from Boon Lay interchange to go to work it will take up another 30 min or so. This is the total time you need from walking from Boon Lay MRT (after stepping out of the train) to interchange, waiting for bus, from point A to B and from bus stop to company. If your company starts work at 8:30am, you will need to leave your house by 7:00am if you take 1.5 hrs to reach office. 1.5 hrs may be only when all transport mode is on time. If there is some chance of bus or MRT (mainly bus) coming late (or miss a bus), you may need to increase your traveling time by as much as 30 mins or more. Try using 3 hrs to go to and from work while you only need to be in your company for only 4 hrs.

    I am not against Foreign Talent. To me, FT are people who have the skills that Singaporean do not have or only a few have. We need FT. It is just that Singapore have a lot of foreign worker who are under cutting Singaporean when come to asking for their pay. They can do so as their cost of living, in their home country, is lower than Singapore. They also do not need to pay 20% to CPF. This means that sending a few hundred dollars home is a lot of money to their family. This amount, over a few years, can be enough for them to buy land and own a house and for their old age. For Singaporean, we need money for our family, to look after our parent (sometime our in-law) and to save for our old age. I do not think that today’s kids, when they grow up, will give us money or look after us when we are old. Also do not forget that our house or land cost a lot as Singapore is small while the land from the foreign worker’s home country is cheap as their country is big.
    Last edited by alan1996; 13th May 2006 at 01:37 AM.

  18. #38

    Default Re: Foreign Talent Articles...

    I think that as much as globalisation is an important factor, a government has a responsibility to take care of its citizens too. I think foreign talents are important to fill vacancies which require little skills or require skills which Singaporeans lack, but I don't think that we should be letting any tom dick or harry come in to work simply based on the fact that they're cheaper.

    Competition is important to keep us driven of course, but we shouldn't be competitive to the point of losing the time and strength for other important things in life like relationships, families, friends, relaxation, etc etc. There's a reason why the French are so proud of their less than 40 hour work week.

  19. #39

    Default Re: Foreign Talent Articles...

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock
    I think that as much as globalisation is an important factor, a government has a responsibility to take care of its citizens too. I think foreign talents are important to fill vacancies which require little skills or require skills which Singaporeans lack, but I don't think that we should be letting any tom dick or harry come in to work simply based on the fact that they're cheaper.

    Competition is important to keep us driven of course, but we shouldn't be competitive to the point of losing the time and strength for other important things in life like relationships, families, friends, relaxation, etc etc. There's a reason why the French are so proud of their less than 40 hour work week.
    Mattlock, well said.

    As our leaders say:
    "Singapore standard of living shall keep increasing" = My interpretation = "things will aways be more expensive"
    "We must stay competitive in face of our Asian neighbours"= My interpretation = "every Singaporean should take lower wages."

    Hmmm. the equation doesn't seems right.

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