I need your opinion and advice very badly PART 2

mau_lovers · 4th May 2006

Walau eh! My computer broke down and i have no ****ing access to the Internet - so I DON'T EVEN HAVE A ****ING CHANCE TO RESPOND - you HAVEN'T EVEN HEARD FROM ME - THE PERSON WHO STARTED THE THREAD AND YOU GO AND CLOSE THE THREAD

Ok never mind - I am already so stressed out teaching - sigh - so I have to go MEDITATE AND DO YOGA TO CALM DOWN.

Look - this matter is between the said person and me - I HAVE NO IDEA WHY OTHER MATTERS LIKE Multiblitz lights etc were brought into this.

For you information - yes - I did check my account in the evening and probably the money wasn't banked in yet. But I think I should make one thing clear - the money was owed to me since March - and I have been asking and asking until I wanted to give up. But I thought - NO - I SHOULDN'T GIVE UP - cos it's a matter of PRINCIPLES.

If you want TFCD then we MUST AGREE UPON THINGS FIRST.

Also - I have given him a CONTRACT TO SIGN - and he HASN'T DONE ANYTHING.

Bob - I know you are trying your best but I hope you don't mind being frank - sometimes I think you bite off more than you can chew.

You CANNNOT BE GENEROUS IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO!

So, don't talk about pursuing the perfection of art etc etc - if you are biting off more than you can chew - photography IS an expensive venture and you can't be too ambitious.

I have been very fair to you - in fact - I have been very 'chin chai' and nice to you but you have to be fair to me too. For the record - you still owe me some money and I have already agreed with you that you can settle the rest of the payment you owe me later - so that's that. But please, I don't want to waste time and energy CHASING AFTER YOU AND REMINDING YOU.

It leaves a very bad feeling when you keep on delaying payment etc. Like I said - if you want it to be free - you must ask - and at this stage where I am right now - WHY should I do this for FREE?? As much as I love the art of nudity - I think I need to be 'valued' and unfortunately - we still live in a society where value is seen in monetary terms.

Now, if you present me a case - for instance - you have a few starving students and they have a very interesting concept and they REALLY NEED HELP - etc etc etc - YES - I WILL DO IT - and WE WOULD HAVE AGREED IN THE FIRST PLACE THAT YOU ONLY GIVE ME THE PICS AND I AM DOING THE JOB FOR FREE TO HELP OUT ETC.

Also - I AM NOT BEING MADE USED OF BY SLCC - with reference to your knife statement.

I saw with my own eyes the lights sitting there in the studio - waiting for you to collect - for TWO MONTHS.

Also - why couldn't you have just ASK properly - tell Joanne the situation - like - hey - look, I am really really tight right now - I know I owe you guys the money and I have to pay in 17 days but I don't think I can make it - can I PAY YOU SAY $200 first etc?

You see - IF you had said that - instead of just IGNORING people or in my case - come up with excuses - like you forgot, or you lost money for your overseas model shoot etc etc - then we might not have been so kancheong.

Besides, I started working with you BEFORE your overseas model shoot. Don't tell me you couldn't even pay me SOME money? Also - this is YOUR venture - if you lose money - this is NONE OF MY CONCERN - you still have to pay me because you EMPLOYED my services.

The lesson I learnt is that I am too nice and accomodating and FRIENDSHIP AND BUSINESS MUST NEVER MIX. I think even if I am doing business with my brothers - WE HAVE TO DRAW UP CONTRACTS AND AGREEMENTS etc. Come on - even for MARRIAGE - that's what the marriage cert is for, RIGHT?

Like I said - if we are all rich and can throw money left right centre - then of course we can be blase and say - NEMIND - owe me a few hundred only what - what's the big deal?? Peanuts right? But it's not JUST about money - it's about TRUST.

I am very sorry that you have to drag SLCC into this - this was ME asking for advice - I don't know why they got dragged into this.

Anyways - I am thinking about this matter very deeply - so that in future - we can set some sort of industrial practice procedure and avoid such unpleasantness. Since CS is the largest photography forum in Singapore - I think we should come up with some measures - and since I am in the forefront of this - I really want to think through this and come up with a set of proposals so that in future - ALL PHOTOGRAPHERS / SHOOT ORGANISERS and models can sort of abide by some procedures. I think the MOST IMPORTANT THING is to have it in black and white - and even to ask for payment or half the payment first or something.

Coming back to the Model Contract, (which perhaps Bob - because he's so busy - has forgotten about I think) I am not worried about my pics appearing anyhow anywhere - but it would be very unfair - say - if the photographer manages to sell my pics and earn money and I am kept in the dark - or another more likely scenario - let's say one fine day - (it's just a SCENARIO - it may or may not happen!

) - I become famous

- then my pics can be SOLD right - to all those rumour monger mags etc etc - right? Yes - it's an UNLIKELY scenario - and it may never happen - but this is about ENSURING TRUST - unfortunately - temptations ALWAYS stand in the way of integrity - it's only human nature.

The human nature is full of ego and pride and self-centredness - and sometimes it becomes one's Achilles' heel - in my case, my Achilles' heel is my niceness - it's sad, isn't it - being nice is a weakness in this world - esp where money is concerned.

Like I said - Bob, please don't bite off more than you can chew. And please don't take nice people for granted. And please, please COMMUNICATE - and tell people what problems you are facing - even if it means just paying a little bit first.

Bobman · 5th May 2006

Alice, first of all, owe money pays money is justifiable. Yes I owe you some money, fine that's my fault. Nothing to explain even though I write a thousand lines also no use. About the model's release, most of them had signed and I was thinking to give them to you once everyone has signed.

When models asked me to find jobs for them, I never say no. Today, I still have models asking me to find assignments for them and I have to do it privately because of this and I don't wish to affect the models. Just spoken to a model during dinner and she told me that many asked her to beware of me, don't let me shoot. I don't know, I will be shooting her soon.

Within a month, I got 9 assignments for you and do you know how difficult it was. This problem came when we agreed that we will transact after the 10th sessions. If I were to pay you S$75.00 every sessions, I wouldn't have this problem. Because you want to collect the money after one month or 10 sessions. So that you can see a bigger sum.

The 10th session did not occurr because either you are too busy with your NUS or I am busy preparing for the O/S model. I offer to pay you some money but you said nevermind. I know you needed the money urgently, last week and I couldn't give you in time. The biggest problem lies not only in me not paying you on time, is that you are willing to let me owe.

Anyway, that's my problem. Same policy. owe money pay money. I will pay you the balance even you offer me to pay you at later date.

Second part is, how I run my life is my business. I don't need any advise or suggestions from anyone. How much I can chew or How much I can swallow has nothing to do with what I owe you. Please don't assume what I am not capable of or what directions I should take. Don't assume you know me or what I want to pursue.

Please don't tell me what to do and please do not SMS me and say sorry this or sorry that if you really wanna shame me in here. I have not afraid of being shame, cos that little mistakes is what sometimes others commit too only that they are just luckily than me.

Who doesn't owe money. I know of a teacher who owes students money. I know of a boss who owes workers money. I know of a tenant owes HDB money. I know of retailer owes supplier money. And so many more.....

Alice if you had done what you should, you may want to close this thread. You want the whole world to know, you had made it. I am not afraid of those CB mouths coming and treat this as their playground, but I just worrying that my style of writing will be merciless. Cause I don't want you to say, I drag another innocent people into this.

jeremyftk · 5th May 2006

Eh guys, I think it would be better if you settle this one off the boards. I don't see any point or gain putting this here, other than to draw flak from some of those around here who have nothing better to do than to increase their post count.

I'm sure both of you are mature enough to settle this in a peaceful manner. I don't think this whole public exposing thing is healthy for both parties involved.

My 2 cents...

Caspere · 5th May 2006

??

Meet and talk is definitely better than this......

xray · 5th May 2006

Lock this.

AhV · 5th May 2006

jeez...do we need to start this again ?

+1 before lock ?

4th May 2006	#1
mau_lovers Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 101	I need your opinion and advice very badly PART 2 Walau eh! My computer broke down and i have no **ing access to the Internet - so I DON'T EVEN HAVE A **ING CHANCE TO RESPOND - you HAVEN'T EVEN HEARD FROM ME - THE PERSON WHO STARTED THE THREAD AND YOU GO AND CLOSE THE THREAD Ok never mind - I am already so stressed out teaching - sigh - so I have to go MEDITATE AND DO YOGA TO CALM DOWN. Look - this matter is between the said person and me - I HAVE NO IDEA WHY OTHER MATTERS LIKE Multiblitz lights etc were brought into this. For you information - yes - I did check my account in the evening and probably the money wasn't banked in yet. But I think I should make one thing clear - the money was owed to me since March - and I have been asking and asking until I wanted to give up. But I thought - NO - I SHOULDN'T GIVE UP - cos it's a matter of PRINCIPLES. If you want TFCD then we MUST AGREE UPON THINGS FIRST. Also - I have given him a CONTRACT TO SIGN - and he HASN'T DONE ANYTHING. Bob - I know you are trying your best but I hope you don't mind being frank - sometimes I think you bite off more than you can chew. You CANNNOT BE GENEROUS IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO! So, don't talk about pursuing the perfection of art etc etc - if you are biting off more than you can chew - photography IS an expensive venture and you can't be too ambitious. I have been very fair to you - in fact - I have been very 'chin chai' and nice to you but you have to be fair to me too. For the record - you still owe me some money and I have already agreed with you that you can settle the rest of the payment you owe me later - so that's that. But please, I don't want to waste time and energy CHASING AFTER YOU AND REMINDING YOU. It leaves a very bad feeling when you keep on delaying payment etc. Like I said - if you want it to be free - you must ask - and at this stage where I am right now - WHY should I do this for FREE?? As much as I love the art of nudity - I think I need to be 'valued' and unfortunately - we still live in a society where value is seen in monetary terms. Now, if you present me a case - for instance - you have a few starving students and they have a very interesting concept and they REALLY NEED HELP - etc etc etc - YES - I WILL DO IT - and WE WOULD HAVE AGREED IN THE FIRST PLACE THAT YOU ONLY GIVE ME THE PICS AND I AM DOING THE JOB FOR FREE TO HELP OUT ETC. Also - I AM NOT BEING MADE USED OF BY SLCC - with reference to your knife statement. I saw with my own eyes the lights sitting there in the studio - waiting for you to collect - for TWO MONTHS. Also - why couldn't you have just ASK properly - tell Joanne the situation - like - hey - look, I am really really tight right now - I know I owe you guys the money and I have to pay in 17 days but I don't think I can make it - can I PAY YOU SAY $200 first etc? You see - IF you had said that - instead of just IGNORING people or in my case - come up with excuses - like you forgot, or you lost money for your overseas model shoot etc etc - then we might not have been so kancheong. Besides, I started working with you BEFORE your overseas model shoot. Don't tell me you couldn't even pay me SOME money? Also - this is YOUR venture - if you lose money - this is NONE OF MY CONCERN - you still have to pay me because you EMPLOYED my services. The lesson I learnt is that I am too nice and accomodating and FRIENDSHIP AND BUSINESS MUST NEVER MIX. I think even if I am doing business with my brothers - WE HAVE TO DRAW UP CONTRACTS AND AGREEMENTS etc. Come on - even for MARRIAGE - that's what the marriage cert is for, RIGHT? Like I said - if we are all rich and can throw money left right centre - then of course we can be blase and say - NEMIND - owe me a few hundred only what - what's the big deal?? Peanuts right? But it's not JUST about money - it's about TRUST. I am very sorry that you have to drag SLCC into this - this was ME asking for advice - I don't know why they got dragged into this. Anyways - I am thinking about this matter very deeply - so that in future - we can set some sort of industrial practice procedure and avoid such unpleasantness. Since CS is the largest photography forum in Singapore - I think we should come up with some measures - and since I am in the forefront of this - I really want to think through this and come up with a set of proposals so that in future - ALL PHOTOGRAPHERS / SHOOT ORGANISERS and models can sort of abide by some procedures. I think the MOST IMPORTANT THING is to have it in black and white - and even to ask for payment or half the payment first or something. Coming back to the Model Contract, (which perhaps Bob - because he's so busy - has forgotten about I think) I am not worried about my pics appearing anyhow anywhere - but it would be very unfair - say - if the photographer manages to sell my pics and earn money and I am kept in the dark - or another more likely scenario - let's say one fine day - (it's just a SCENARIO - it may or may not happen! ) - I become famous - then my pics can be SOLD right - to all those rumour monger mags etc etc - right? Yes - it's an UNLIKELY scenario - and it may never happen - but this is about ENSURING TRUST - unfortunately - temptations ALWAYS stand in the way of integrity - it's only human nature. The human nature is full of ego and pride and self-centredness - and sometimes it becomes one's Achilles' heel - in my case, my Achilles' heel is my niceness - it's sad, isn't it - being nice is a weakness in this world - esp where money is concerned. Like I said - Bob, please don't bite off more than you can chew. And please don't take nice people for granted. And please, please COMMUNICATE - and tell people what problems you are facing - even if it means just paying a little bit first.

5th May 2006	#2
Bobman Deregistered Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Jungle Posts: 2,357	Re: I need your opinion and advice very badly PART 2 Alice, first of all, owe money pays money is justifiable. Yes I owe you some money, fine that's my fault. Nothing to explain even though I write a thousand lines also no use. About the model's release, most of them had signed and I was thinking to give them to you once everyone has signed. When models asked me to find jobs for them, I never say no. Today, I still have models asking me to find assignments for them and I have to do it privately because of this and I don't wish to affect the models. Just spoken to a model during dinner and she told me that many asked her to beware of me, don't let me shoot. I don't know, I will be shooting her soon. Within a month, I got 9 assignments for you and do you know how difficult it was. This problem came when we agreed that we will transact after the 10th sessions. If I were to pay you S$75.00 every sessions, I wouldn't have this problem. Because you want to collect the money after one month or 10 sessions. So that you can see a bigger sum. The 10th session did not occurr because either you are too busy with your NUS or I am busy preparing for the O/S model. I offer to pay you some money but you said nevermind. I know you needed the money urgently, last week and I couldn't give you in time. The biggest problem lies not only in me not paying you on time, is that you are willing to let me owe. Anyway, that's my problem. Same policy. owe money pay money. I will pay you the balance even you offer me to pay you at later date. Second part is, how I run my life is my business. I don't need any advise or suggestions from anyone. How much I can chew or How much I can swallow has nothing to do with what I owe you. Please don't assume what I am not capable of or what directions I should take. Don't assume you know me or what I want to pursue. Please don't tell me what to do and please do not SMS me and say sorry this or sorry that if you really wanna shame me in here. I have not afraid of being shame, cos that little mistakes is what sometimes others commit too only that they are just luckily than me. Who doesn't owe money. I know of a teacher who owes students money. I know of a boss who owes workers money. I know of a tenant owes HDB money. I know of retailer owes supplier money. And so many more..... Alice if you had done what you should, you may want to close this thread. You want the whole world to know, you had made it. I am not afraid of those CB mouths coming and treat this as their playground, but I just worrying that my style of writing will be merciless. Cause I don't want you to say, I drag another innocent people into this.

5th May 2006	#3
jeremyftk Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Eastern Singapore Posts: 694	Re: I need your opinion and advice very badly PART 2 Eh guys, I think it would be better if you settle this one off the boards. I don't see any point or gain putting this here, other than to draw flak from some of those around here who have nothing better to do than to increase their post count. I'm sure both of you are mature enough to settle this in a peaceful manner. I don't think this whole public exposing thing is healthy for both parties involved. My 2 cents...

5th May 2006	#4
Caspere Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: East Side Posts: 1,409	Re: I need your opinion and advice very badly PART 2 ?? Meet and talk is definitely better than this......

5th May 2006	#5
xray Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 599	Re: I need your opinion and advice very badly PART 2 Lock this. __________________ Flickr

5th May 2006	#6
AhV Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Northland Posts: 2,158	Re: I need your opinion and advice very badly PART 2 jeez...do we need to start this again ? +1 before lock ?