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Thread: Comments on Pictures posted, lies or truths?

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Comments on Pictures posted, lies or truths?

    A critique is a double edged sword. On one hand, to utilize improvement solely based on critique is as damaging as a pointless banal answer.

    It is simply another person's view on the image, and should remain so, taken with a lil grain of salt.

    In the end, it has to be a photographer who has to do the weeding..

    (P.S: This is a reference to alot of threads from telling another person how to shoot a picture
    to giving a title for the picture. In the end it's not the poster's own work and ideas, but wholly influenced by the viewers. Geez.)

  2. #42

    Default Re: Comments on Pictures posted, lies or truths?

    Quote Originally Posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt
    actually i see macro section also got alot of ppl do same commentary like in protraits & pose lor...
    yup correct and i am one of them.

    Why, cos besides saying good, what else can a totally newbie in marco like me say?

    Should see the law of nature, got part 3 now i think, but i still prefer part 1.
    Eat breath LIVERPOOL!!!

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Comments on Pictures posted, lies or truths?

    Quote Originally Posted by ellery
    Although it is known that appreciation of any artform depends on your own standards at the moment and that what is outside your current scope of appreciation will not register at all - it is often the less experience that the most vocal in defence of their work. The blind leading the blind is often on descriptive of most forum with post and comments. No solutions for this its like a fact of life.
    Agreed.

    I came across a recent post - my immediate reaction to the photo was that it looked outrageous and that it was an absolute mess. However, most critiques said "nice" to this particular thread. Trying to justify these comments, I tried hard (over 3 days) to see the 'niceness' in that photo but I just could'nt find any. Had wanted type in how I really felt about the photo, but I backed out. Why?... I think 'nice' is a matter of opinion. And this happend to be a case where there was nothing great about the technical aspect nor feel to the photo that is worthy of me justifying my dislikeness to it. Besides, I do not want to get worked out explainng to the photographer why the photo sucks


    Quote Originally Posted by LittleWolf
    The inflationary use of "niceness" and praise where it is not warranted is insincere and devalues those positive comments based on merit. This insincerity is IMHO much more damaging to a community than occasional unflattering comments.
    Well said.

    Quote Originally Posted by LazerLordz
    There are people who cannot take honest critiques in the forum because the correlation between the money + time spent on their gears is not proportionate to the quality of their photos.
    Of late, this is very apparent. Maybe this is where one can differentiate a gadget-junkie from a photographer.


    Just my 2 cents worth

  4. #44

    Default Re: Comments on Pictures posted, lies or truths?

    Quote Originally Posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt
    actually i see macro section also got alot of ppl do same commentary like in protraits & pose lor...
    i posted some comments on pp, and make some enemys..........
    Eat breath LIVERPOOL!!!

  5. #45

    Default Re: Comments on Pictures posted, lies or truths?

    By the way, do not assume that people want "comments".

    A lot of people put up their pix to "share". What they really want to do is to show off the latest, prettiest and most TL girl that they just paid to shoot over the weekend. They're not looking for your "comments" or criticism, and they're not posting so that they can improve, but so that they can share with the world how pretty and TL the girl they just shot is.

    This is no different from if I share my coke with you, I certainly don't expect you to criticise my coke when you're drinking it.

    Hence your critique, or any critique at all, is not welcome.

    Got it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet
    A question to all fellow CS members, when you post pictures, not in the Critique Corner forum, do you want comments and criticisms?

    I think if you do not want any comments and criticisms, especially criticisms, you should say so, “criticism not welcome”, then the critics would probably shut up. However, if you do not specifically stated criticism not welcome, we should be able to comment and criticize truthfully.

    I have noticed a very disturbing trend, and it’s getting worse. Many viewers, give praises to the most undeserved. The picture sucks and it’s still nice to them. There is this overly polite politically correct tendency to sugar coat criticisms. I found these kind of criticisms most ineffective, inefficient, and insulting at times. If the picture is really that bad, say it. If the hair is messy, the pose is unnatural, the facial expression is that horrible, the set does not make sense, say it truthfully so that the poster can learn and improve.

    On the other hand, many posters do not want viewers’ true opinions. As long as the comments are positive, they are great comments. Whenever the viewers criticize, all sort of excuses come out. Messy hair inevitably gets the wind is strong excuse, goofy/horrible expressions will be rebutted by “It’s natural …”, and messed up sets become whimsical/it’s intended to be that way etc etc etc.

    This phenomenon of “good comments only” applies not only to newbies, but to established professional photographers too.

    With the posters and viewers playing hypocrites, how can we learn from our mistakes, how can we improve and build on our accomplishments.
    Last edited by waileong; 2nd May 2006 at 08:55 PM.

  6. #46

    Default Re: Comments on Pictures posted, lies or truths?

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong
    By the way, do not assume that people want "comments".

    A lot of people put up their pix to "share". What they really want to do is to show off the latest, prettiest and most TL girl that they just paid to shoot over the weekend. They're not looking for your "comments" or criticism, and they're not posting so that they can improve, but so that they can share with the world how pretty and TL the girl they just shot is.

    This is no different from if I share my coke with you, I certainly don't expect you to criticise my coke when you're drinking it.

    Hence your critique, or any critique at all, is not welcome.

    Got it?

    NO I DON'T get it!

    The forum is a public place. Posting is just like an exhibition. Puclic comments are inevitable. I will honor the poster's will if the post says comments not welcome. Otherwise, I will continue to give my comments.

    Sharing a coke is different, and you are comparing apples and oranges.
    deadpoet
    my portfolio

  7. #47

    Default Re: Comments on Pictures posted, lies or truths?

    Go to any art gallery. Do you see any place for you to write "comments" next to every painting?


    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet
    NO I DON'T get it!

    The forum is a public place. Posting is just like an exhibition. Puclic comments are inevitable. I will honor the poster's will if the post says comments not welcome. Otherwise, I will continue to give my comments.

    Sharing a coke is different, and you are comparing apples and oranges.
    Let me give another example.

    Suppose we are friends and every week I invite you to my house for dinner. If every week you come and make stinging criticisms about my wife's cooking, do you think you'll be getting more invites from me?

    Your comments may be perfectly valid (maybe my wife is not a good cook), but if you hurt her ego, you're not going to be too popular.

    If you want to continue to enjoy free food every week, either you learn to say the same things nicely (without hurting someone's ego) or you keep quiet, if it's not such a big thing (ie you don't kena food poisoning).

    When we invite you for dinner, we don't expect rude criticism. When we submit a dish for a culinary competition, we expect to be rated, judged, compared and criticised.

    Therein lies the difference.
    Last edited by waileong; 2nd May 2006 at 10:27 PM.

  8. #48

    Default Re: Comments on Pictures posted, lies or truths?

    I believe that I have in the past made comments on Deadpoet's harsh words. He has always been harsh but honest. Lets face it, the truth tends to hurt. Whether or not he's excessively rude and sarcastic, I wouldn't want to waste my brain cells pondering over it and then presenting my opinions. What for? So that this debate could go on and on?

    Yes, he may be harsh but give this man and his free speech due credit. I don't know of any other ClubSnap member who has such courage to openly present his criticism. Besides, his criticism has, in almost every case, been valid and surely more meaningful than most (not all) of the "nice" and "well done" praises given by hypocritical viewers.

    (I have observed his comments in recent thread containing images of a model which he thought were bad. I would agree with him but I'm not keen on commenting/criticising.)

    If you all think Deadpoet's words are really distasteful, then how about all the cleverly-disguised lewd "praises" for gal models that usually appear in the form of especially when the gals have "good figures", have "pretty face", or quite surely well endowed at the chest?

  9. #49

    Default Re: Comments on Pictures posted, lies or truths?

    I had decided to stop giving critiques on images, unless my comments are specifically sought for, as in a recent post. I do not even want to critique images posted in the "Critique Corner".

    My reasons are simple.

    1 With the exception of the "Critique Corner", images posted in the various subforums are not specifically posted for critiques, unless specifically mentioned.

    2 I do not feel that I have any business to think less of comments like "Nice". The reason is that to offer something a little "more meaty" takes some maturity in both technical knowhow as well as esthetics appreciation. There are all types of members in CS, from 15 year olds to more experienced ones. I have little idea who these people are. How can I fault the comment "nice" when the comment comes from one who had just taken up photography yesterday? Have I any authoriity to impose "my standards" (whatever it is?) on others?

    3 I also do not like to say that comments like "nice" comes from insincere motives. As mentioned in #2, the comments may be the best that someone can come up with. But I dare say that I too sometimes like to just say "nice". It is not my business to question someonelse' intentions.

    4 I found out that very, very, often comments can lead to unpleasant retorts. Wisp had once mentioned that people may want to put a shot gun to my ass. But I can tell Wisp that there are many here whom I would like to do the same to. I find this type of exchanges meaningless and an absolute waste of time.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Comments on Pictures posted, lies or truths?

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong
    By the way, do not assume that people want "comments".

    A lot of people put up their pix to "share". What they really want to do is to show off the latest, prettiest and most TL girl that they just paid to shoot over the weekend. They're not looking for your "comments" or criticism, and they're not posting so that they can improve, but so that they can share with the world how pretty and TL the girl they just shot is.

    This is no different from if I share my coke with you, I certainly don't expect you to criticise my coke when you're drinking it.

    Hence your critique, or any critique at all, is not welcome.

    Got it?
    wats TL?
    Logging Off. "You have 2,631 messages stored, of a total 400 allowed." don't PM me.

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Comments on Pictures posted, lies or truths?

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong
    Go to any art gallery. Do you see any place for you to write "comments"?
    Hmmm ... aren't we talking about forums hosted on a server called forum.clubsnap.com? For galleries, there's - drum roll - GALLERY.clubsnap.com. (But even the latter allows to post comments.)

  12. #52

    Default Re: Comments on Pictures posted, lies or truths?

    Quote Originally Posted by student
    I had decided to stop giving critiques on images,
    That's not a bad thing. One should not underestimate the peace and tranquility that comes from restraint, from learning to live and let live.
    Last edited by waileong; 2nd May 2006 at 10:31 PM.

  13. #53

    Default Re: Comments on Pictures posted, lies or truths?

    Quote Originally Posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt
    wats TL?
    tua liap?

  14. #54

    Default Re: Comments on Pictures posted, lies or truths?

    Quote Originally Posted by zha
    Agreed.

    I came across a recent post - my immediate reaction to the photo was that it looked outrageous and that it was an absolute mess. However, most critiques said "nice" to this particular thread. Trying to justify these comments, I tried hard (over 3 days) to see the 'niceness' in that photo but I just could'nt find any. Had wanted type in how I really felt about the photo, but I backed out. Why?... I think 'nice' is a matter of opinion. And this happend to be a case where there was nothing great about the technical aspect nor feel to the photo that is worthy of me justifying my dislikeness to it. Besides, I do not want to get worked out explainng to the photographer why the photo sucks
    I pity the poor guy. He just missed a learning opportunity. If I were him, I would have love to hear your view

    Photography is an art, so what is wrong with having a different view from the rest and expressing it?

  15. #55
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    Default Re: Comments on Pictures posted, lies or truths?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet
    A question to all fellow CS members, when you post pictures, not in the Critique Corner forum, do you want comments and criticisms?

    I think if you do not want any comments and criticisms, especially criticisms, you should say so, “criticism not welcome”, then the critics would probably shut up. However, if you do not specifically stated criticism not welcome, we should be able to comment and criticize truthfully.

    I have noticed a very disturbing trend, and it’s getting worse. Many viewers, give praises to the most undeserved. The picture sucks and it’s still nice to them. There is this overly polite politically correct tendency to sugar coat criticisms. I found these kind of criticisms most ineffective, inefficient, and insulting at times. If the picture is really that bad, say it. If the hair is messy, the pose is unnatural, the facial expression is that horrible, the set does not make sense, say it truthfully so that the poster can learn and improve.

    On the other hand, many posters do not want viewers’ true opinions. As long as the comments are positive, they are great comments. Whenever the viewers criticize, all sort of excuses come out. Messy hair inevitably gets the wind is strong excuse, goofy/horrible expressions will be rebutted by “It’s natural …”, and messed up sets become whimsical/it’s intended to be that way etc etc etc.

    This phenomenon of “good comments only” applies not only to newbies, but to established professional photographers too.

    With the posters and viewers playing hypocrites, how can we learn from our mistakes, how can we improve and build on our accomplishments.

    Hi DP,

    Allow me to express my opinion.....

    I agree with you to some extend that too much praise will lead us getting the wrong perceptions and stop improving.
    However, too harsh & rude critiques will also upset some people and give them a really down heart and stop improving.......

    Like I have mentioned before,
    We are living in Asian Countries......
    People's sensitivity are extremely important......

    In Western Countries......
    your type of critiques and comments.....
    are "Most Welcomes" in the forums.....

    The harsher and more heart striking the Critiques.....
    the better it is for us.....

    I can say this because I have Lived and studied in USA for more than 3 years.....
    and I grown up with this extreme harsh and heart striking critiques almost everyday......
    Every lines always end up with f##k,B###h,Sl#t..........
    At first time, I cried in pain everytime hearing their extreme Barbaric & heating words.....
    But after that.... I'll get used to it.....
    Even I grow better & better from then on.....
    That's how I can be a though Engineer.....
    Even Until now I am still facing this type of environment in my Work whenever I am in Overseas..........

    honestly speaking,
    After hearing their comments......
    your comment are really-really nice to hear on ears........

    What I am trying to say is.....
    please look at situation & people when you would like to critique......

    If the pictures post by Professional and Amateur who really want to improve.....
    then your critiques and comments are most welcome......
    you are helping them a lot to improve further

    If the pictures are taken by people who would like to share their happiness & joy....
    then comment it nicely and give them some guidance on how to improve further.....
    not shooting straight from the heart and mouth.....

    Mind people's feelings n their concern.....
    Sometimes what you hear "Nice" is for them to express how happy they are....
    That's what photography about.....

    Happiness & satisfaction......

    different people, different perceptions.....

    This is not science and technology....
    You can't judge them correctly all the time.....

    Sometimes the most perfect picture can be a really sucks & crap picture for me.....
    don't know whether I can understand or I see nothing beautiful on the pictures....

    That's all I just want to say....
    Forgive me if I my comments are little bit harsh and straight.....

    It's just I want to clear some misunderstandings regarding this.....

    Thanks a lot for listening

    Wishing a nice evening.....

    THE END

  16. #56

    Default Re: Comments on Pictures posted, lies or truths?

    Quote Originally Posted by stprmit
    ...
    What I am trying to say is.....
    please look at situation & people when you would like to critique......

    If the pictures post by Professional and Amateur who really want to improve.....
    then your critiques and comments are most welcome......
    you are helping them a lot to improve further

    If the pictures are taken by people who would like to share their happiness & joy....
    then comment it nicely and give them some guidance on how to improve further.....
    not shooting straight from the heart and mouth.....

    ...
    How do we the views know if the poster wants comments or not? As I said many times, if the poster said comments not welcome, I will shut up. Otherwise, it's fair game.

    Actually, all the "share their happiness and joy" pictures, I don't comment, nomatter how bad they are. We know these pictures when we see them.

    Granted, CS is a Singapore based forum, and majority of the members are Asian. What does that has to do with posting on the internet and comments? The internet is a global creature. Can't stand comments, the only thing is don't post.
    deadpoet
    my portfolio

  17. #57

    Default Re: Comments on Pictures posted, lies or truths?

    my 2 cts for what's it worth... if anyone cares to read =)

    CS is generally a singaporean forum, and typically with asian mindset... frankness & willingness to discuss & recieve critisim is not a common trait, comments are mostly neutral remarks (nice or crap), seldom truths (good but 1...2...3... bad points). Evidently, the poster doesnt even ask for comments, just "Thx, for your viewing pleasure" or "sharing some stuff". One hardly sees "Lemme have it, can take honest harsh criticism, or no I dont want your damn feedback". Yea it's fair game if the poster doesnt post "comments not required" but even if you do post, the poster doesnt even bother reply to your opinions...

    However, DP, if it makes a difference, if anyone here would like a detailed observation/feedback (nobody is actually in a position to critique) of their photos, feel free to PM me... honestly, I've stopped giving feedback in general because the poster usually doesnt even acknowledge them... and I'd rather look at photos which the photographer wants attention for discussion....

    The irony is that the forum is called 'clubsnap ', not 'photo-appreciation'...
    Last edited by Rev; 3rd May 2006 at 03:28 AM.

  18. #58
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Comments on Pictures posted, lies or truths?

    Quote Originally Posted by mercurial_streak
    tua liap?
    Please elaborate further.

  19. #59

    Default Re: Comments on Pictures posted, lies or truths?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rev

    ................CS is generally a singaporean forum, and typically with asian mindset... frankness & willingness to discuss & recieve critisim is not a common trait, comments are mostly neutral remarks (nice or crap), seldom truths (good but 1...2...3... bad points).............................

    However, DP, if it makes a difference, if anyone here would like a detailed observation/feedback (nobody is actually in a position to critique) of their photos, feel free to PM me... honestly, I've stopped giving feedback in general because the poster usually doesnt even acknowledge them... and I'd rather look at photos which the photographer wants attention for discussion....

    The irony is that the forum is called 'clubsnap ', not 'photo-appreciation'...
    Why are we defining clubsnap as a "Singaporean/Asian" majority forum? There are quite a number of non-Asians here too. A forum has no mindset, it is the mindset of the individual that take part in discussion in the discussions in the forum.

    Frankness and willingness to discuss may not be a common trait among most Asian, but that does not mean that the more vocal Asians must shut up for the "good" of the majority. We are cacooning ourselves. I am Asian too, but i feel that is not the way to go.

    Getting feedback is part and parcel of posting on an online forum. If u have ur own exhibition, even a private one, you have to be prepared for comments, even if those comments are made out of ear shot and is negative. I think the last thing u would want is for ppl to just come in, see see, say good good, than move off. Unless the exhibition is solely a ego boosting kinda thing.

    Most ppl ignore my posts, but what the hack, I still post to share my views. I dont believe in keeping quite when I have a view that i feel is not unjustified.

    So, I feel that if you want to give comments, give constructive and honest comments, no matter it is positive or negative. We are all here to learn something. Not just how "good" we are, but most importantly, how "bad" we are and how we can improve.

  20. #60

    Default Re: Comments on Pictures posted, lies or truths?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion
    Please elaborate further.
    I think it refers to having big assets.

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