Di vs good lenses.comments pls

[Nessie]

Are you able to tell the difference in a picture if its take with a great lens and a great DI?
i.e. a photo with excellent quality and depth with
a photo that gone thru DI (USM, gaussian, some touchup with lens correction.)

[michhy]

Originally Posted by Nessie Are you able to tell the difference in a picture if its take with a great lens and a great DI? i.e. a photo with excellent quality and depth with a photo that gone thru DI (USM, gaussian, some touchup with lens correction.)

Usually the post-processed image is more pleasing.

[~Arcanic~]

that depends on how good e person is at DI...

but having a good lens and knowing what you are doing before you press the shutter, will help save a lot of post processing work..

[S11loop]

a gd lens give u speed and better bokeh ... u cant achieve good AF speed to capture that important moment with very gd Di skill and theres is a different between between a gd pleasing bokeh and a fake Di oof area .

If a good lens is sharp it will also save u time from sitting in front of yr com for too long ... i am more interested in spending those valuable time taking more pictures in challanging scene

[Nessie]

well said guys. Thanks for the contribution.

[Klose]

The time spent infront your com shows how you manage your workflow basics. Poor workflow management leads to long periods just to edit one picture. Most of my pics are run through batch actions - smart sharpening

[waiaung]

Both are important for me.

[firestone]

As Confucious once said " Rubbish in, Rubbish out"

[unseen]

Originally Posted by S11loop a gd lens give u speed and better bokeh ... u cant achieve good AF speed to capture that important moment with very gd Di skill and theres is a different between between a gd pleasing bokeh and a fake Di oof area .

tha's not very true.. As mentioned, it depends on how good e person is at DI..
A very good DI artist will have you wondering how on earth they actually take some of the photos around. Not talking about simple DI, but more advanced DI where you can put anything into a scene, change the entire sky, change an entire car, change a girls stomache from flabby to 6 pacs and so on. And make it look real.
If you can tell the difference between a DI-ed work and a non-DIed work by the technicalities, then the DI artist is not good.
IMHO, if it looks too good to be true, thus it has a high chance of being DI-ed.
I've seen some rubbish in and stunning works out, thus rubbish in rubbish out doesn't apply to everyone.

[S11loop]

Originally Posted by unseen tha's not very true.. As mentioned, it depends on how good e person is at DI.. A very good DI artist will have you wondering how on earth they actually take some of the photos around. Not talking about simple DI, but more advanced DI where you can put anything into a scene, change the entire sky, change an entire car, change a girls stomache from flabby to 6 pacs and so on. And make it look real. If you can tell the difference between a DI-ed work and a non-DIed work by the technicalities, then the DI artist is not good. IMHO, if it looks too good to be true, thus it has a high chance of being DI-ed. I've seen some rubbish in and stunning works out, thus rubbish in rubbish out doesn't apply to everyone.

i think u dont understand what i say ... is ok

[Witness]

Originally Posted by waiaung Both are important for me.

:

[unseen]

Originally Posted by S11loop i think u dont understand what i say ... is ok

I'm saying that the difference between real Bokeh and fake DI bokeh when done properly is one which you cannot tell apart.
Important moments can be created in DI if you're good enough. A good enough artist can draw a whole photograph if necessary, but that's out of the scope of this discussion.

USM, gaussian, some touchup with lens correction = simple DI. Very simple DI.

LOL the thread starter nvr asked for which is more important.

I'm of the stand that if the DI artist is good enough, you won't be able to tell.

[unseen]

http://forum.clubsnap.org/showthread...=191983&page=2
Is this a case of good lense good, good PS better?

[S11loop]

Originally Posted by unseen I'm saying that the difference between real Bokeh and fake DI bokeh when done properly is one which you cannot tell apart. Important moments can be created in DI if you're good enough. A good enough artist can draw a whole photograph if necessary, but that's out of the scope of this discussion. USM, gaussian, some touchup with lens correction = simple DI. Very simple DI. LOL the thread starter nvr asked for which is more important. I'm of the stand that if the DI artist is good enough, you won't be able to tell.

I think if the day ever come there will be no need for Buy and Sell forum and there wont be a need for big white lenses or costly lens maybe camera maker will start closing down one by one also and we can convert BnS forum into a DI artist for hire zone

If thats the majority people " Belief "

I personally think all this digital enhancement are important but then to ask me draw a photo ? sorry i am a photographer not a painter and here we are talking abt purely lenses and DI skill for photography right and so why would a photographer need to draw if he has a camera with a lens . I might not be able to tell the true of the photo is a done up from very gd DI but there is people i know which has the "eye" to tell , some photographers with sensitive eye should be able to tell the feel of the photographs and differential it so dont be too sure to assume that if u cant tell so is the rest cant tell too .

well abit off topic , just my 2 cent worth unbias comments

cheers

[Nessie]

Veyr interesting inputs. I'm just weighing the need of getting REALLY god quality lens to make the photos turn WOW. I can agree that some says that the input has to be good to produce good output also. I believe each and individual have their preferences, however, collective I can feel that a good DI skills is good to have.

Thanks clubsnappers!

[Snowcrash]

Originally Posted by Nessie Veyr interesting inputs. I'm just weighing the need of getting REALLY god quality lens to make the photos turn WOW. I can agree that some says that the input has to be good to produce good output also. I believe each and individual have their preferences, however, collective I can feel that a good DI skills is good to have. Thanks clubsnappers!

If you are not shooting for commerical, just make sure the good quality lens make the photos turn WOW for YOU. If you ask 10 different people to look at the same pictures... you get all sorts of comments..... or most will say "It's OK lah"

But DI skills, same thing.... do you have a vision for the final image? and the skills to get it to that vision?

Just sharing.

[~Arcanic~]

Originally Posted by Nessie Veyr interesting inputs. I'm just weighing the need of getting REALLY god quality lens to make the photos turn WOW. I can agree that some says that the input has to be good to produce good output also. I believe each and individual have their preferences, however, collective I can feel that a good DI skills is good to have. Thanks clubsnappers!

Good DI skills is always a plus, but look at photography since the beginning, there wasn't much DI, just darkroom processing (can be count as some form of "DI" I guess), but yet during those times, there are still people who churn out WOW pictures right?

Everything plays a part, the person using the equipment, the equipment you have and whatever extra skills that you might bring into producing the final picture. Its just that technology advancement has made DI must more "flawless" than what it used to be, imho, I believe that its mainly still down to the person using the equip and doing the DI.

[unseen]

Originally Posted by S11loop I think if the day ever come there will be no need for Buy and Sell forum and there wont be a need for big white lenses or costly lens maybe camera maker will start closing down one by one also and we can convert BnS forum into a DI artist for hire zone If thats the majority people " Belief " I personally think all this digital enhancement are important but then to ask me draw a photo ? sorry i am a photographer not a painter and here we are talking abt purely lenses and DI skill for photography right and so why would a photographer need to draw if he has a camera with a lens . I might not be able to tell the true of the photo is a done up from very gd DI but there is people i know which has the "eye" to tell , some photographers with sensitive eye should be able to tell the feel of the photographs and differential it so dont be too sure to assume that if u cant tell so is the rest cant tell too . well abit off topic , just my 2 cent worth unbias comments cheers

LOL ah.. but good DI skills is alot harder to accquire than a $10k lens. You can always save up $$ for a lens, but.. skills are just skills.
It's just like Maths. Some pople are so good that they can calculate stuff FASTER than others using a $200 calculator. Some people can try their whole life and yet can't reach the level of some of the maths whizz around.

As for the "eye".. I've seen someone in this forum DI an image, and put it up for critique/viewing. After many many comments and hundreds/thousands of views, not a single person noticed that it was DI-ed. I myself wouldn't have know it was DI-ed if I didn't see the person DI it.

Sorry, can't tell you which photo or by whom. Trust me, it's out there.

To the thread starter - As mentioned, DI skills are not something everyone can have. Not everyone can be a Bill Gates. Even if you do have the skills, with a crap lens, you'll spend ALOT longer at simple DI-ing to produce good images. Willing to spend 30min to 4 hours on a single image? Think about it.
Of course, if you're talking about simple stuff like upping contrast and upping colours.. bar sharpness, no one can tell if it came from a good lens or a bad.

[theRBK]

$10k lenses are expensive, but DI can always outsource...

And as I think S11loop was saying, good lenses give you shots where not so good ones just can't perform... in dark scenes, a faster lens will give you a sharp image where a slower lens might not, and there are limits to sharpning... and fast lenses tend to focus faster as well...

[unseen]

Originally Posted by theRBK $10k lenses are expensive, but DI can always outsource... And as I think S11loop was saying, good lenses give you shots where not so good ones just can't perform... in dark scenes, a faster lens will give you a sharp image where a slower lens might not, and there are limits to sharpning... and fast lenses tend to focus faster as well...

true.. DI can always outsource.. but good DI artists charge like a few k for a few images... I'm not saying a faster/sharper lens is better, I'm just saying that DI can really do wonders. Thing about proper DI is, it takes forever. Most people don't have the patience, I must admit neither do I. Spend 1 week doing up 1 entire image? I'd rather go and retake the image. However there ARE shots which are not replicable, thus DI is needed.

There are limits to sharpening yeah, but have you ever seen someone who paints back the details such that the image becomes sharp? Something like manually sharpen the entire image?