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Thread: Comments on various photography clubs/societies

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Comments on various photography clubs/societies

    Quote Originally Posted by espn
    Most people cannot take the truth, they just want to hear nice things. Anything that is not pleasing, they ignore.

    "Hear only the good stuff" - Gold 90 FM.
    i quite agree that many cannot take the truth and get defensive of their works.

    However, we must not discount the fact that there are indeed mentors that cannot teach properly. Having the knowledge and experience is one thing, knowing how to teach is another.

    Some may think sarcasm is a good way to teach. Some thinks that saying only the good things is the way to go. While some may think saying only the bad points are good for the students.

    I think it's the same happening in the private tuition sector, where anyone with a post sec education are 'fitting' tutors. They have the knowledge but may not have the skill to teach.
    Last edited by yanyewkay; 20th April 2006 at 05:35 PM.
    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” - Adolf Hitler

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Comments on various photography clubs/societies

    Quote Originally Posted by espn
    Most people cannot take the truth, they just want to hear nice things. Anything that is not pleasing, they ignore.

    "Hear only the good stuff" - Gold 90 FM.
    some how the truth is... Dun Buy Dun Buy Dun Buy... and ppl just ignore it & BUY BUY BUY...
    Logging Off. "You have 2,631 messages stored, of a total 400 allowed." don't PM me.

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Comments on various photography clubs/societies

    Quote Originally Posted by yanyewkay
    i quite agree that many cannot take the truth and get defensive of their works.
    This happens everywhere and i guess its happening to truth-photograpger rite now. She's trying all her best to bombard me with everything she can to defend PSS.

    But like what i said, i am not trying to put anybody down, just sharing my experience. I hope she can take this positively. As a 'senior' member of the club, she can take this as a positive feedback and judge for herself is there anything she can do to correct the attitute of some instructors (and i'm only saying some..i believe majority are gd) or simply, just ignore my comments if she think i'm being basied.

    By telling me i sld listen to her cos she is a senior, must be a humble pie or go setup my own free photo clinic if i'm not happy doesn't reflect too well on her either. By commenting on my remarks, she's now the ambassador of the club and if her own attitude is going to be so defensive, who will want to give feedback anymore in the future.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Comments on various photography clubs/societies

    Quote Originally Posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt
    some how the truth is... Dun Buy Dun Buy Dun Buy... and ppl just ignore it & BUY BUY BUY...
    hear only the good stuff.. just Don't BUY! Don't BUY!Don't BUY!
    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” - Adolf Hitler

  5. #45

    Default Re: Comments on various photography clubs/societies

    Quote Originally Posted by tariesy
    This happens everywhere and i guess its happening to truth-photograpger rite now. She's trying all her best to bombard me with everything she can to defend PSS.

    But like what i said, i am not trying to put anybody down, just sharing my experience. I hope she can take this positively. As a 'senior' member of the club, she can take this as a positive feedback and judge for herself is there anything she can do to correct the attitute of some instructors (and i'm only saying some..i believe majority are gd) or simply, just ignore my comments if she think i'm being basied.

    By telling me i sld listen to her cos she is a senior, must be a humble pie or go setup my own free photo clinic if i'm not happy doesn't reflect too well on her either. By commenting on my remarks, she's now the ambassador of the club and if her own attitude is going to be so defensive, who will want to give feedback anymore in the future.
    hey dun worry about it. i guess truth-photographer is overly pro-pss so her comments can be disregarded as biased

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Comments on various photography clubs/societies

    Upz for this - the famous statement is made by our dear Mr Roy Goh - totally agree.

    For the GP point, I think truth-photographer missed the point. If all 5 Gps told you "Your health sucks, tuff luck" and goes on to say how healthy he is, how fast he can run etc, do you still think your original statement on the GP analogy works?

    Quote Originally Posted by yanyewkay
    I guess it's his first time there and so he brought it down. What I do not agree is like someone said previously; If you don't like the service of the national library, you don't expect the reply to your complaint letter to be "Go open your own library if you ain't happy with ours" right? It is only right for the club to take feedback positively as well.


    this i agree, provided if the GP gave any useful feedback.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Comments on various photography clubs/societies

    Quote Originally Posted by yanyewkay
    i quite agree that many cannot take the truth and get defensive of their works.

    However, we must not discount the fact that there are indeed mentors that cannot teach properly. Having the knowledge and experience is one thing, knowing how to teach is another.

    Some may think sarcasm is a good way to teach. Some thinks that saying only the good things is the way to go. While some may think saying only the bad points are good for the students.

    I think it's the same happening in the private tuition sector, where anyone with a post sec education are 'fitting' tutors. They have the knowledge but may not have the skill to teach.
    There are some that should be ignored, but some shouldn't, the problem is they only "hear only the good stuff". And are not open to feedback.

    Some are crude and direct to the point "Your images CMI blah blah" and gets the TS flared up because he spent a lot of time shooting under the rain.

    Some thought they've reached nirvana by doing paid shoots and shut others off when they're told they've executed their shoots wrongly.

    I think sacarsm and directness are very different and obvious. Take castleinthesky for example when he 'soured' me over my feine shot during SLCC shoot, it's obvious, but it's true so I let it be (it was a snapshot anyway and not some pro shot ) this is sacarsm. I accepted it and was slimed by darrelchia thinking that I was thanking castleinthesky for his 'compliments'. Bo pian, I not pro...I not in Chris Ling group of wedding photographers mah... hee.

    Directness like what somebody did in P&P to criticise and gave feedback to the people involved in TFP/CD, paid shoots and tried to help them to evolve out of the box but was rejected with great anger because they think they know better. This is good intentions gone to waste. And it shows that throughout all ages (from 16 and up) "Hear only the good things" is true.

    While the TS is angry, I feel the 'teacher' said nothing wrong. Perhaps could have been clearer in his explanations/feedback.

    However, we all know the photographer ourselves are the best critique, only we ourselves can go out of the box. It might do the TS some good to sit back and ponder carefully to why the huge and unwarranted(?) reaction of the mentor.

    Overall, most in CS cannot take comments and feedback.



    In short still boils down to what I said earlier - "Hear only the good things" - Gold 90 FM.
    Last edited by espn; 20th April 2006 at 08:33 PM.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Comments on various photography clubs/societies

    Quote Originally Posted by tariesy
    This happens everywhere and i guess its happening to truth-photograpger rite now. She's trying all her best to bombard me with everything she can to defend PSS.

    But like what i said, i am not trying to put anybody down, just sharing my experience. I hope she can take this positively. As a 'senior' member of the club, she can take this as a positive feedback and judge for herself is there anything she can do to correct the attitute of some instructors (and i'm only saying some..i believe majority are gd) or simply, just ignore my comments if she think i'm being basied.
    I've shot with some of the PSS people before and I do sometimes meet them and hear them talk about photography, they're nice people really, perhaps it was not well executed on their part over your works that caused you distress because maybe you thought they were of better level? Why not go back to the mentor and prove him wrong by sharing your thoughts of your works and seek his advice and feedback?

    It'd do you good, really.



    Quote Originally Posted by tariesy
    By telling me i sld listen to her cos she is a senior, must be a humble pie or go setup my own free photo clinic if i'm not happy doesn't reflect too well on her either. By commenting on my remarks, she's now the ambassador of the club and if her own attitude is going to be so defensive, who will want to give feedback anymore in the future.
    This is something I don't buy myself. I do not take seniority to be a factor for respect and must eat humble pie to. Respect is earned, not expected, I will not shield truth-photographer in thise sense if this 'seniority' crap is pulled on you.

  9. #49

    Default Re: Comments on various photography clubs/societies

    I do not consider as very very senior, and I am not that old too!

    I do not consider myself as "know PSS a lot", but the training that my mentor Steven Yee is giving me makes me a better photographer, though there is still more room to improve and I am still far from him. He has also taught me a lot on how to run a club, but I am unable to volunteer my service as a Council member yet as my dad needs me to run his business. It is not an easy job running PSS, especially when you are not paid and do it out of volunteerism with the sacrifice of your leisure time on weekdays and weekends.

    For info, key Council members like Steven Yee, Mr Goh, Edward Cheong etc work very hard for PSS to the extent they hardly have time for dinner with their family, as they have to be at the clubhouse very often not just to teach, but to tend to matters and meetings. For Steven, PSS is like his baby. He is almost there everyday, Monday to Sunday, even public holidays. Not that hard to find him there actually.

    I am pro-PSS, because it is a good place where it allows me to hone my skills with the mentorship of great instructors. I have to agree that a minority of instructor may not communicate well, but given enough time and taking the humble pie, you can harness a lot of knowledge from their experience.

    When I was studying in Australia, I can hardly find a club which was run like PSS. I have PSS Basic course and advance course classmates who are expatriates,now back to their country (Czech, Germany, England, Korea etc) and we still keep in touch. They miss PSS. I think this is likewise in many countries too. Some even fly all the way back here just to join PSS's oversea shooting trips to places like Myanmar and Tibet.

    Look at their activities and courses. They are non-profit, not receiving a single cent from the govt, have to fend for their budget and yet able to churn out so many activities for us.

    we should be grateful.

    We should also be grateful to the Photo Clinic instructors, who are volunteers, who conduct the sessions for free in the expense of their leisure time and help the newbies. True that not every instructor is perfect, but what makes me boil about this thread is the negative remarks made about them.

    I welcome feedback, as it is part of customer service. But we should consider the various aspects before we give negative critique on them. Are the photo clinic instructors really that nasty that they justify to be given such negative comments in an open public forum? Many people have benefitted from the critique sessions.

    Hence, if anyone does really feel negative about the PSS, you can email directly to the Honorary Secretary Steven Yee, as he oversees much of the operation and I have faith and trust that he will remedy the issues. He has been a great guy, well versed in the movements in the photographic circle, a helpful mentor to many, and gracious to hear about feedbacks.

    Now that I understand that the threadstarter is a successful businessman, I also think he/she should know the meaning of gratitude and responsibility.

    Of course, forums are meant for open discussion, but a seemingly harmless feedback or discussions can spin out of control especially there are a lot of "anti-clubs" people here who are looking for opportunities to do "club bashing". read more threads, and you will know who and what I meant.

    If you dug the archives further, you can see that there are many people who make false accusations on the clubs, some even mix up the activities of the various clubs and give negative feedback. Some in the very old thread even say PSS organises weekly Sunday morning outings, with very fake poses of non-logical setups. This is false, as PSS only organise outdoor outing once a month! The various clubs activities got mixed up. In those days, not many PSS members were logging onto Clubsnap and PSS just got whacked up down left right centre for things not done by them.

    We need to have pro-PSS supporters to correct any misconception.

    It is not about biasness when we defend PSS. But we just have to set record straight and correct. Since I am unable to volunteer my service to be in the Council of PSS, I think I am right to do my part to help and contribute, by helping PSS when it is in need. This is loyalty to the club which has nurtured me well.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Comments on various photography clubs/societies

    Quote Originally Posted by truth-photographer
    I do not consider as very very senior, and I am not that old too!

    I do not consider myself as "know PSS a lot", but the training that my mentor Steven Yee is giving me makes me a better photographer, though there is still more room to improve and I am still far from him. He has also taught me a lot on how to run a club, but I am unable to volunteer my service as a Council member yet as my dad needs me to run his business. It is not an easy job running PSS, especially when you are not paid and do it out of volunteerism with the sacrifice of your leisure time on weekdays and weekends.

    For info, key Council members like Steven Yee, Mr Goh, Edward Cheong etc work very hard for PSS to the extent they hardly have time for dinner with their family, as they have to be at the clubhouse very often not just to teach, but to tend to matters and meetings. For Steven, PSS is like his baby. He is almost there everyday, Monday to Sunday, even public holidays. Not that hard to find him there actually.

    I am pro-PSS, because it is a good place where it allows me to hone my skills with the mentorship of great instructors. I have to agree that a minority of instructor may not communicate well, but given enough time and taking the humble pie, you can harness a lot of knowledge from their experience.

    When I was studying in Australia, I can hardly find a club which was run like PSS. I have PSS Basic course and advance course classmates who are expatriates,now back to their country (Czech, Germany, England, Korea etc) and we still keep in touch. They miss PSS. I think this is likewise in many countries too. Some even fly all the way back here just to join PSS's oversea shooting trips to places like Myanmar and Tibet.

    Look at their activities and courses. They are non-profit, not receiving a single cent from the govt, have to fend for their budget and yet able to churn out so many activities for us.

    we should be grateful.

    We should also be grateful to the Photo Clinic instructors, who are volunteers, who conduct the sessions for free in the expense of their leisure time and help the newbies. True that not every instructor is perfect, but what makes me boil about this thread is the negative remarks made about them.

    I welcome feedback, as it is part of customer service. But we should consider the various aspects before we give negative critique on them. Are the photo clinic instructors really that nasty that they justify to be given such negative comments in an open public forum? Many people have benefitted from the critique sessions.

    Hence, if anyone does really feel negative about the PSS, you can email directly to the Honorary Secretary Steven Yee, as he oversees much of the operation and I have faith and trust that he will remedy the issues. He has been a great guy, well versed in the movements in the photographic circle, a helpful mentor to many, and gracious to hear about feedbacks.

    Now that I understand that the threadstarter is a successful businessman, I also think he/she should know the meaning of gratitude and responsibility.

    Of course, forums are meant for open discussion, but a seemingly harmless feedback or discussions can spin out of control especially there are a lot of "anti-clubs" people here who are looking for opportunities to do "club bashing". read more threads, and you will know who and what I meant.

    If you dug the archives further, you can see that there are many people who make false accusations on the clubs, some even mix up the activities of the various clubs and give negative feedback. Some in the very old thread even say PSS organises weekly Sunday morning outings, with very fake poses of non-logical setups. This is false, as PSS only organise outdoor outing once a month! The various clubs activities got mixed up. In those days, not many PSS members were logging onto Clubsnap and PSS just got whacked up down left right centre for things not done by them.

    We need to have pro-PSS supporters to correct any misconception.

    It is not about biasness when we defend PSS. But we just have to set record straight and correct. Since I am unable to volunteer my service to be in the Council of PSS, I think I am right to do my part to help and contribute, by helping PSS when it is in need. This is loyalty to the club which has nurtured me well.
    Well, i have place enough emphasis correcting you this is just my personal encounter and yes, you have sang enough praises for your mentor Steven Yee and PSS. We all knew that. You don't have to keep repeating yourself.

    Now who is bashing PSS? As far as i can see here, all comments are neutral, being you as the most basied person around, taking this thread too personally. If you are genuine about customer service, this sldn't be the way to react. U offend more than you help cool things down. Imagine you have a feedback from a customer but instead of solving his prob, u scolded him while trying to defend yourself. I made a comment on one instructor but it seems like i am the the who keeps apologising to you instead of you looking into this matter to see what you can help.

    I wrote that i am sad and my heart broke when i heard what he said. Nothing negative is mentioned if you care to read back. For all you know, i merely pin pointed at certain issues. Never did i shoot PSS down. You are the one who created all the misconception, some representative from PSS who's unwilling to listen to feedback, someone who protect PSS so much till you went ard shotting all people down. You only make one wonders so this is how PSS respond to public feedback.

    Having mention many times by you again that people overseas flown here just for PSS, all the more you sld that feedback positively, not to put people down. I apologise for not writing in my feedback instead, as what u suggested, if that helps to cool you down.

    And yes, enough have been mentioned by you once again that they are volunteers, sacrificing family time all these and that. That doesn't give them the excuse of the bad attitude either. You are suggesting that even if minority of the instructors who cannot communicate well, we still have to bow to them and take the humble pie on whatever they give us, instead of helping to improve their communication skills. I personally don't take this. As mentioned before, respect is earned, not expected.

    And i want to correct you, i am just an ordinary humble employee, drawing a fix monthly income, not what u think of a successful businessman.

    I know Singaporeans are best at complaining and i know what you are trying to emphasis by everything you wrote. We Singaporeans are taking a lot of things for granted till we lose the art of appreciation to a lot of things which happen and exist ard us. We are fortunate to live in a country where we get to enjoy peace and lots of luxurious items, forgetting that some others in other parts of the world don't even have their basic neccessity of surviving. Yes i am grateful and yes i appreciate all that has happened and all i wanted is to make a note so that things continue to improve.

    On a last note, if PSS has reach the point where there isn't any more room for improvement, we don't even have to dig back those old archives, reading those false accusation. Instead, we'll be digging back archives and archives of thread, reading posts by the public who sing praises of them, just like you do.So i guess PSS has reach a point till they are so high up and important (to so many people in other countries as mentioned by you) that we can only take whatever it gives us and not entilted to feedbacks anymore.

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Comments on various photography clubs/societies

    Quote Originally Posted by tariesy
    I was really sad and angry that as an instructor, he was more eager to show off what he has rather than to comment and help correct new learner abt photography. Nothing on composition, framing, subject interest, handling techniques were commented. My enthusiam abt photography was killed on the spot.
    If his photos are good, why not ask him for tips. I'm sure he will be glad to share. Sometimes I do get slammed down hard by other pros, bo pian, need to start from somewhere.

  12. #52
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    Default Re: Comments on various photography clubs/societies

    A fellowship of an association or society or club is just that.
    If the society closes, fellowship ceases to exist.
    It is flushed down the toilet.

    Do not compare the $ per hour rate of a local fellow-of-a-photo-club with University Professorships or Fellows of professional institutions, such as those for surgeons or accountants or engineers.

    $ got nothing to do with it.
    You can start a society for playing marbles. And accord yourself fancy fellowships.

    It is not the same with Universities and professions (e.g. surgery) where if you perform wrongly, people can die.

    The local fellow-of-a-photo-club is rather insignificant.

    By the way, having a super rich patron does not make the society any more prestigious or skillful.
    Last edited by ricohflex; 22nd April 2006 at 08:14 PM.

  13. #53
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    Thumbs up Re: Comments on various photography clubs/societies

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex
    A fellowship of an association or society or club is just that.
    If the society closes, fellowship ceases to exist.
    It is flushed down the toilet.

    Do not compare the $ per hour rate of a local fellow-of-a-photo-club with University Professorships or Fellows of professional institutions, such as those for surgeons or accountants or engineers.

    $ got nothing to do with it.
    You can start a society for playing marbles. And accord yourself fancy fellowships.

    It is not the same with Universities and professions (e.g. surgery) where if you perform wrongly, people can die.

    The local fellow-of-a-photo-club is rather insignificant.

    By the way, having a super rich patron does not make the society any more prestigious or skillful.
    Right I support your statment.

    Photography cant make you rich - it is just a hobby to enjoy.
    Title does not mean you are a professional photographer.
    Do not think highly of yourself.

  14. #54

    Default Re: Comments on various photography clubs/societies

    Quote Originally Posted by tariesy
    There are lots of clubs & societies teaching photography here. Any feedbacks or comments about the quality of the instructors and the clubs/societies?

    No personal attacks, just some coffe shop talk.

    Here's my pesonal experience:

    Everyone sld know of the friday photo clinic by PSS. There was once when i am suppose to hand in 6 pictures for the assigmnent and i brought all my collections of photos for some comments.

    And there was this insturctor, Mr E****** C***** who was sitting there so i thought i just show him my photos for comments.

    My heart really when i heard what he said. He was just flipping thru my albums and all he said was is that all u have? He then arrogantly showed me what he have thru his laptop and was happily boasting abt where he went and all these are his pictures.

    I was really sad and angry that as an instructor, he was more eager to show off what he has rather than to comment and help correct new learner abt photography. Nothing on composition, framing, subject interest, handling techniques were commented. My enthusiam abt photography was killed on the spot.

    By coming to this forum and reading all fellow Csers comments abt pictures and photography, i learn more than what i learn from PSS.

    Well, that was just my experience, hope no one is offended. Hope that thru this thread, u all can share wif all abt gd and bad clubs/societies or instructors.

    In all honesty, your experience (that led to this feeling/judgement) doesn't surprise me.

    Several years ago when I was still in S'pore, I was a member of a fairly prestigious photography club, and another lesser known smaller club. It's quite expected that senior members tend to be older persons (no disagreements with their age and rank) and it's also quite expected that senior members tend to be owners/users of excellent gear (again no disagreements with their choice of hardware).

    What I dislike is the blatant use of hardware, and sometimes age between ordinary members, to suggest skill and seniority. It's like pulling rank on others, according little mutual respect or fair-go, especially if you are younger or using cheapo gear. When I was very fresh into the club, I thought nothing of it and accepted it as the way it was.

    Most senior members had larger spending power (either high salaries or fat pensions) to buy and use (flash) top-end gear. Expectedly, they also have the means to travel around and shoot uncommon and possibly stunning images (or create/hire/buy opportunities for other photography). Once every now and then, there would be talks conducted to show member's travel scenery images but in most of them, it's all talk about how they got there and what they did. It's like a traveller's tale, mostly superficial.

    I see these instances of hardware flashing and traveller's tales as nothing more than men showing-off (mine's bigger and better than yours) and try to rank themselves better (I have done this and that, have you?). Little, or not enough is asked or discussed about techniques and intentions, even in critique sessions with a supposedly qualified instructor. It was mostly putting down student after student. I heard enough of the brutal bashing.

    If anything, I would agree with some other ClubSnap members that this forum provides better discussion and critique on techniques and methods.

    As I gradually became not-so-fresh in these clubs, my perception of some (maybe many) senior members changed. For the kind of images that they were producing, I didn't see them worthy of their respect and rank. I started questioning myself why they were even there at the club. I also started to wonder about the portrait shoots the club was organising. So I stopped paying and stopped going. I grew my own wings and flew in my own direction to shoot in my own styles and preferences.

    In a club where you have surely have a hierachy and ranks, you will surely have people (usually men) trying to position themselves. It's an ego-problem men have, and it's inevitable.

    From what you have written about this instructor, it sounds clear (to me, maybe not to others) that you weren't given the assessment and critique you wanted. Since photography isn't a science but an art, and it is surely subjective (like one man's meat is another man's poison), the assessment and critique has to be done fairly and tactfully.

    The student should be asked why and how the image was created before assessing or criticising the work. It should not be a straight-out "this is bad", "this is lousy", and surely not "is this all you have?" or "is this all you can do?". These are all remarks to put down someone.
    Last edited by Jemapela; 22nd April 2006 at 09:28 PM.

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    Default Re: Comments on various photography clubs/societies

    Quote Originally Posted by truth-photographer
    When I was studying in Australia, I can hardly find a club which was run like PSS. I have PSS Basic course and advance course classmates who are expatriates,now back to their country (Czech, Germany, England, Korea etc) and we still keep in touch. They miss PSS. I think this is likewise in many countries too. Some even fly all the way back here just to join PSS's oversea shooting trips to places like Myanmar and Tibet.
    As best as I know, I would tend to agree with you about the lack of a photography-interest club as good as PSS in Australia. However, I'm not saying that the clubs here are lousy. Australia is a huge country with several cities, and you may not have found a club that appears as active or as happening.

    In my experience, I have also discovered that many Aussie photographers, whether academically-recognised properly-qualified or hobbyists, like to pursue their craft and work alone. Unlike Singapore, they tend to be more individualistic and independent. They are not as keen on joining a group (like a flock of sheep) to shoot something. They prefer to go there alone, and do it by themselves.

    I actually prefer this individualism because the resulting work is unique. You know that only you have it, and not 20 other PSS members also have it. I have worked with enough Aussie models to know that even a collaboration with 2 photographers is very unlikely, and almost all, are executed one-to-one.

    Also, do keep in mind that Australian universities produce academically-recognised properly-qualified photographers. These professional photographers have their rightful respected place in society and maybe, just maybe, forming large photography-interest clubs could be contradicting to this profession. (Seriously, I still don't know how Australia handles this issue.)

    In Singapore, NUS and NTU or whatever U, doesn't produce such photographers. Perhaps, the best and safest place Singaporean photographers can obtain a rank or repute is really in the prestigious clubs.
    Last edited by Jemapela; 22nd April 2006 at 09:54 PM.

  16. #56
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    Default Re: Comments on various photography clubs/societies

    You'd be surprised that even in here, there are people who challenge others by asking whether they have done any high-end commercial jobs as a testament to rank.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jemapela
    I see these instances of hardware flashing and traveller's tales as nothing more than men showing-off (mine's bigger and better than yours) and try to rank themselves better (I have done this and that, have you?).

  17. #57
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    Default Re: Comments on various photography clubs/societies

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123
    You'd be surprised that even in here, there are people who challenge others by asking whether they have done any high-end commercial jobs as a testament to rank.
    You should say to them your photos are too good to be high-end commercial.

    They are ART and therefore priceless.

  18. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123
    You'd be surprised that even in here, there are people who challenge others by asking whether they have done any high-end commercial jobs as a testament to rank.
    Yes, I know. I have been challenged before with how many exhibitions I have held.

    There's this common perception in Singapore that if you have held an exhibition somewhere, you are accomplished and great. I wouldn't say that exhibitions suggest nothing about the photographer's skill but not every photographer has to have his/her work exhibited to be recognised as good. There are many (some I see here in ClubSnap) who are good but don't exhibit.

    Some photographers aren't keen on exhibiting. Others don't have money, or don't wish to waste money, to exhibit (because it costs $$ to rent exhibiting space). Sometimes an exhibition is really nothing more than a rich person hiring a public space to show his/her work just to gain fame or recognition (not necessarily to promote a good cause or awareness of an issue), but the work, although good or maybe passable, isn't exceptionally excellent.

    Really, having exhibited doesn't mean a good photographer.

    In case of a misunderstanding, I'm not saying that I'm good.

  19. #59
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    Default Re: Comments on various photography clubs/societies

    Quote Originally Posted by Jemapela
    In case of a misunderstanding, I'm not saying that I'm good.
    And you're not saying you're not good either?

  20. #60
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    Default Re: Comments on various photography clubs/societies

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex
    A fellowship of an association or society or club is just that.
    If the society closes, fellowship ceases to exist.
    It is flushed down the toilet.

    Do not compare the $ per hour rate of a local fellow-of-a-photo-club with University Professorships or Fellows of professional institutions, such as those for surgeons or accountants or engineers.

    $ got nothing to do with it.
    You can start a society for playing marbles. And accord yourself fancy fellowships.

    It is not the same with Universities and professions (e.g. surgery) where if you perform wrongly, people can die.

    The local fellow-of-a-photo-club is rather insignificant.

    By the way, having a super rich patron does not make the society any more prestigious or skillful.
    With regards to the Fellowship etc, i strongly disagree.

    In all walk of lives, you do have a sort of hierarchy. It is true that being a fellow of PSS, or even FRPS doesnt necessary makes u a better photographer than another fellow without. However, it does indicate that you have the competency to reach the Society's level, which is at least more tangible since they have strict guidelines and judging. It is far sup[erior than in CS where someone says it's nice (whether is the model nice, your photo nice or how it is nice, doesnt really matter).

    As for salaries, we are not kidding ourselves. Yes, photography instructors are not as well paid as professors in Universities. It is not really because they are not in the same hierachy. Rather, it got to do with Standards. yes, standards like a degree such as BBA, MBA or whateevr. Professors are indirectly or directly responsible to student graduating (which is kinda like obtaining a FPSS or LPSS etc). The main difference, is the market value. Can a FPSS find u a job like a MBA? If it can, u can bet the PSS instructors are well paid.

    It is also wrong to say that with the collapse of the society or club or whatever, your title is gone. What you achieved can never be taken away. Can you go back and change history? I am a CPA member and a LPSS. CPA is for commercial value. LPSS is more for personal satisfaction. it's like telling myself, i am good enough. Of course, some people may not feel the same or do not need the vindication. For me, i did it as a test. And i am happy that i passed. Will i go for APSS, FPSS or ARPS, FRPS? probably not, because i am not going pro and don't need the cert. Certain pros in Singapore do have FRPS or MFiap etc, as it justify their level of competency and trust me, their fees commensurates equally. (only exception will probably be fashion photogs, where networks and ideas prob outweighs technical competence to a certain extent in importance)

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